UFOs

[trophy33]

Do you not have Google on your computer? When the Bereans heard Paul preaching they didn't ask him to provide proof. They searched the Scriptures for themselves to determine whether what Paul's preaching was so. So, you can use Google to find the evidence and photos and make your own determination whether what I have said has credence.

So you claim there are ufo crash sites without debris, but you cannot name even one?

 

[Jipsah]

Why bark for a dog who is well able to bark for itself?

What?

 

[Jipsah]

According to an Astrophysicist who has studied majority of UFO reports since the late 1950s, he has found that 99% were explained as either hoaxes, aircraft, reflections from windows or the planet Venus. But there is 1% of real sightings of objects that cannot be explained.

Because there's not enough data to explain them. Odds are that if there was sufficient data, all or most of those would turn out to be boring workaday stuff.

They are real,

Sure they are. But there's not enough information to determine what they are. You assume, as a matter of faith, they're demon-piloted flying saucers. I hav no faith invested in the matter,and assume, based on simplest possible answers, that since thre are thousands of aircraft flying around at any given time, and as far as anyone can demonstrate, no flying saucers of either demonic or ET origin at all, that it's most reasonable to assume that most unidentified flying objects are the same as the identified flying objects. I have found no compelling reason to believe otherwise.

because in some cases many people saw them, and pilots have actual footage of them.

Them what? Again, just because the objects seen remain unidentified, it doesn't at all mean they're unidentifiable.

But they are not physical, because the very high speed they were observe flying, they should have burned up in the atmosphere.

If they're not physical then they're not material, and if they're not material, then they're most likely man-made electronic counter measures designed to deceive and or evade radar, infrared, and visual detection. No demons necessary.

There is also no way extraterrestrials could have travelled across the vast expanse of space and survived cosmic radiation on the way

I tend to asgree with you there. But the idea that they're demonic is pretty far down the list of reasonable possibilities.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So you claim there are ufo crash sites without debris, but you cannot name even one?

I've given my opinion and am happy with it. You can do your own research and develop your own opinion. If it differs from mine, great. Then we have your opinion and mine.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What?

My wife won't drive our car on the motorway, or outside of our local area. She doesn't see the need to drive if I can drive her to where we need to go. Her saying is that why should she drive if she has someone to drive for her. Hence the saying, "Why should I bark when I have a dog to bark for me?" Get it?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Because there's not enough data to explain them. Odds are that if there was sufficient data, all or most of those would turn out to be boring workaday stuff.

Sure they are. But there's not enough information to determine what they are. You assume, as a matter of faith, they're demon-piloted flying saucers. I hav no faith invested in the matter,and assume, based on simplest possible answers, that since thre are thousands of aircraft flying around at any given time, and as far as anyone can demonstrate, no flying saucers of either demonic or ET origin at all, that it's most reasonable to assume that most unidentified flying objects are the same as the identified flying objects. I have found no compelling reason to believe otherwise.

Them what? Again, just because the objects seen remain unidentified, it doesn't at all mean they're unidentifiable.


If they're not physical then they're not material, and if they're not material, then they're most likely man-made electronic counter measures designed to deceive and or evade radar, infrared, and visual detection. No demons necessary.

I tend to asgree with you there. But the idea that they're demonic is pretty far down the list of reasonable possibilities.

If the sightings or not hoaxes, mistaken aircraft, reflections, or Venus, and they don't show the characteristics of actual physical aircraft such as heat generation during high speed travel, and the impossibility of space travellers over the very long distances across the universe, then the theories become quite limited.

 

[All Becomes New]

Combination of demonic activity and the gov. running with it to control the population.

I'm not denying the fact of Covid, but it is much the same. The Covid virus is real, but the gov. has completely overblown its importance. Same thing here with "aliens." They don't just come right out and say it is aliens because they know many people will just assume it is. They don't need to say it is aliens but that is what they want you to think it is.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Because there's not enough data to explain them. Odds are that if there was sufficient data, all or most of those would turn out to be boring workaday stuff.

Sure they are. But there's not enough information to determine what they are. You assume, as a matter of faith, they're demon-piloted flying saucers. I hav no faith invested in the matter,and assume, based on simplest possible answers, that since thre are thousands of aircraft flying around at any given time, and as far as anyone can demonstrate, no flying saucers of either demonic or ET origin at all, that it's most reasonable to assume that most unidentified flying objects are the same as the identified flying objects. I have found no compelling reason to believe otherwise.

Them what? Again, just because the objects seen remain unidentified, it doesn't at all mean they're unidentifiable.


If they're not physical then they're not material, and if they're not material, then they're most likely man-made electronic counter measures designed to deceive and or evade radar, infrared, and visual detection. No demons necessary.

I tend to asgree with you there. But the idea that they're demonic is pretty far down the list of reasonable possibilities.

Further to my previous post. We could use the Sherlock Holmes method of investigation: Once we examine what UFOs cannot be, then what is left is the more likely answer. So, as far as I have been able to determine are:
1. Can't be space travellers because the nearest possibly habitual planet are much too far away.
2. The UFOs observed travelling a very high speeds don't show surface friction as would be expected with normal faster than sound jet aircraft. Aircraft like the Concord needed special alloy material to enable it to travel at the speed it did. UFOs have been observed travelling at much higher speeds where you would expect to see a bright red glow from surface friction, but that is not seen. Therefore we must discount that these are actual physical craft.
3. There is no actual evidence of alien bodies being discovered. The Roswell ones have been exposed as a hoax. The "whistle blower" reports seen on Google are fake reports. He "thinks" there are bodies, but he can't prove it.
4. A scientist who has been studying the reports of UFO incidents including crash sites, over several decades, says that there is a lack of debris at the crash sites. No one has come forward to refute his claim as yet, so in the meantime, we have to accept what he says.
5. Area 51 does not hold any ultra secret projects or UFOs. The real ultra secret facility is elsewhere in an undisclosed location. That's the point of being ultra secret. So the hype surrounding Area 51 belongs with fiction movies or conspiracy theories.

So, once all these have been discounted, what is there left?

If the idea of beings coming from another dimension is viable, what we do know apart from science fantasy, is that angels and demons can come and go from the spiritual world to ours. It is improbable that UFOs involve angels, because the visitation of angels in Scripture have been in human form and have not involved UFOs. So all we have left are demons who come from the spiritual world with so called visitations of extra terrestrial beings and objects in the sky in order to confuse, distract, and frighten people.

It is also interesting that all those who have had sightings of real UFOs have been heavily involved in the occult, and many have had terrifying nightmares after having the sighting. But once the persons have quit their involvement in the occult the sightings have stopped. This research has come from the many interviews with those who have had encounters with real UFOs.

As I said, you are quite free to do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Combination of demonic activity and the gov. running with it to control the population.

I'm not denying the fact of Covid, but it is much the same. The Covid virus is real, but the gov. has completely overblown its importance. Same thing here with "aliens." They don't just come right out and say it is aliens because they know many people will just assume it is. They don't need to say it is aliens but that is what they want you to think it is.

When she was alive, my mother was a UFO researcher for many years. That's where I became aware of UFOs. It is a pity that she is not alive today, because of my recent discoveries and theories, we could have had some very interesting discussions. In my other post I said that many who were involved with UFOs were also involved in the occult. My mother was one who was similarly involved. This is why I believe that there is a definite link between the two.

 

[Jipsah]

1. Can't be space travellers because the nearest possibly habitual planet are much too far away.

Could be, but it's extraordinarily unlikely.

2. The UFOs observed travelling a very high speeds don't show surface friction as would be expected with normal faster than sound jet aircraft. Aircraft like the Concord needed special alloy material to enable it to travel at the speed it did. UFOs have been observed travelling at much higher speeds where you would expect to see a bright red glow from surface friction, but that is not seen. Therefore we must discount that these are actual physical craft.

The possibility of physical craft doing the things that UFOs are reported to do is so unlikely that it practically requires an appeal to magic, which I reject out of hand. Especially so, since the reported behavior of UFOs thus described is entirely possible to fake.

An object with mass can't accelerate to a reported 50K mph from a dead stop, turn 180 degrees, return at rough the same speed it left with, and then stop on a dime again, without expending an unimaginable amount of energy, barring, again, magic. But it can be made to appear to have happened. I have recounted here how a ham operator friend and I made a highly illegal device that made a car traveling within the speed limit to cause police speed radar to indicate that it was moving at 300+ MPH.

Just as a stage conjuror can make it appear that he's sawed a woman in half, he hasn't. He only makes it appear to have done so. Bear in mind, again, that physical objects with mass cannot "defy the laws of physics". Those laws are part of God's design. If something appears to have done so,that appearance is false. Either the observer was simply incorrect for any of a multitude of reasons, of the appearance was the product of a high tech conjuror's trick.

3. There is no actual evidence of alien bodies being discovered. The Roswell ones have been exposed as a hoax. The "whistle blower" reports seen on Google are fake reports. He "thinks" there are bodies, but he can't prove it.

Agreed.

4. A scientist who has been studying the reports of UFO incidents including crash sites, over several decades, says that there is a lack of debris at the crash sites. No one has come forward to refute his claim as yet, so in the meantime, we have to accept what he says.

I'm sorry, but I see no need to accept the word of anyone at all as authoritative unless there is supporting evidence that confirms their tale. If I tell you that I can throw a baseball 10 miles, but that in flight is disappears so that it can't be found to confirm my having done so, only the veriest ninnie would accept it because they can't prove otherwise. I can send you a picture of my back yard and claim that a UFO crashed there but left no trace. Should you believe me?

But one possibility for saving the scientist's dubious claim. Something may have appeared to have "crashed", and there was no debris because there was no physical object at all. High tech stage magic; electronic conjuring.

5. Area 51 does not hold any ultra secret projects or UFOs. The real ultra secret facility is elsewhere in an undisclosed location. That's the point of being ultra secret. So the hype surrounding Area 51 belongs with fiction movies or conspiracy theories.

I've always assumed that was simply saucer buff folklore.

So, once all these have been discounted, what is there left?

Magic, which I reject,since that's the universal "explanation" for anything that didn't actually happen.
Demons, which is essentially an appeal to magic in a Christianized form.
Spacemen, essentially interchangable with demons.
All these suffer from an almost total of evidence of any kind other than "somebody said" and/or pictures of lights in the sky. The waters are also muddied by the people who produce bogus "evidence" to troll and/or bilk the faithful

On the other side, what's left is:
Misidentified sightings of mundane objects.
Optical illusions.
Intentionally deceptive high tech spoofing, misdirection to make an enemy pay attention to what he thinks is there and miss what's actually happening This is already happening with electronic counter measures, and a lot of this stuff could easily be the next generation of ECMs.

the idea of beings coming from another dimension is viable

Except that there's no evidence of the existence of othr dimensions for interdimensional beings to come from.

, what we do know apart from science fantasy, is that angels and demons can come and go from the spiritual world to ours.

Stipulated. But again, we have no evidence of either angels or demons doing stuff like this. I see this as simply a Christianized appeal to magic.

It is improbable that UFOs involve angels

Agreed.

So all we have left are demons who come from the spiritual world with so called visitations of extra terrestrial beings and objects in the sky in order to confuse, distract, and frighten people.

An idea for which, once again, we have no evidence. Demons in Scripture aren't evil demigods. We see them tormenting poor unfortunates,and being sent packing by our Lord. We see their boss trying to sell a lying bill of goods to our Lord, and being sent packing himself. That's it. No UFOs, no magical powers.

It is also interesting that all those who have had sightings of real UFOs have been heavily involved in the occult

I have recounted my sighting of a real UFO in 1963. A clearly supersonic or hypersonic craft (we got boomed with fair regularity in those days, so we were familiar with it) leaving a string-of-pearls contrail, which to this day I have not found any record of having existed that long ago. I had no interest in the occult when I was 10 years old and have none now. It was not a flying saucer, though, so it probably doesn't count.

and many have had terrifying nightmares after having the sighting.

I might suggest that their "UFOs" are a product of those selfsame nightmares.

As I said, you are quite free to do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

I have, which is how I arrived at the position I hold now.

 

[All Becomes New]

When she was alive, my mother was a UFO researcher for many years. That's where I became aware of UFOs. It is a pity that she is not alive today, because of my recent discoveries and theories, we could have had some very interesting discussions. In my other post I said that many who were involved with UFOs were also involved in the occult. My mother was one who was similarly involved. This is why I believe that there is a definite link between the two.

There most certainly is a link between UFOs and the occult. And it's not just based on what your mother says. For example, Dr. Hugh Ross and Dr. Brian Huffling have noticed the same thing and they are not on the same side regarding some theological positions. They both think the UFOs are demonic activity. It is only natural that those involved in the occult would have more experiences with UFOs for that reason.

 

[trophy33]

I've given my opinion and am happy with it. You can do your own research and develop your own opinion. If it differs from mine, great. Then we have your opinion and mine.

You do not just give your opinion, you repeatedly provide specific factual claims ("it does this and that"). But without even 1 detail where, when, who saw that... and without any evidence.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Could be, but it's extraordinarily unlikely.

The possibility of physical craft doing the things that UFOs are reported to do is so unlikely that it practically requires an appeal to magic, which I reject out of hand. Especially so, since the reported behavior of UFOs thus described is entirely possible to fake.

An object with mass can't accelerate to a reported 50K mph from a dead stop, turn 180 degrees, return at rough the same speed it left with, and then stop on a dime again, without expending an unimaginable amount of energy, barring, again, magic. But it can be made to appear to have happened. I have recounted here how a ham operator friend and I made a highly illegal device that made a car traveling within the speed limit to cause police speed radar to indicate that it was moving at 300+ MPH.

Just as a stage conjuror can make it appear that he's sawed a woman in half, he hasn't. He only makes it appear to have done so. Bear in mind, again, that physical objects with mass cannot "defy the laws of physics". Those laws are part of God's design. If something appears to have done so,that appearance is false. Either the observer was simply incorrect for any of a multitude of reasons, of the appearance was the product of a high tech conjuror's trick.

Agreed.

I'm sorry, but I see no need to accept the word of anyone at all as authoritative unless there is supporting evidence that confirms their tale. If I tell you that I can throw a baseball 10 miles, but that in flight is disappears so that it can't be found to confirm my having done so, only the veriest ninnie would accept it because they can't prove otherwise. I can send you a picture of my back yard and claim that a UFO crashed there but left no trace. Should you believe me?

But one possibility for saving the scientist's dubious claim. Something may have appeared to have "crashed", and there was no debris because there was no physical object at all. High tech stage magic; electronic conjuring.

I've always assumed that was simply saucer buff folklore.

Magic, which I reject,since that's the universal "explanation" for anything that didn't actually happen.
Demons, which is essentially an appeal to magic in a Christianized form.
Spacemen, essentially interchangable with demons.
All these suffer from an almost total of evidence of any kind other than "somebody said" and/or pictures of lights in the sky. The waters are also muddied by the people who produce bogus "evidence" to troll and/or bilk the faithful

On the other side, what's left is:
Misidentified sightings of mundane objects.
Optical illusions.
Intentionally deceptive high tech spoofing, misdirection to make an enemy pay attention to what he thinks is there and miss what's actually happening This is already happening with electronic counter measures, and a lot of this stuff could easily be the next generation of ECMs.


Except that there's no evidence of the existence of othr dimensions for interdimensional beings to come from.

Stipulated. But again, we have no evidence of either angels or demons doing stuff like this. I see this as simply a Christianized appeal to magic.

Agreed.

An idea for which, once again, we have no evidence. Demons in Scripture aren't evil demigods. We see them tormenting poor unfortunates,and being sent packing by our Lord. We see their boss trying to sell a lying bill of goods to our Lord, and being sent packing himself. That's it. No UFOs, no magical powers.

I have recounted my sighting of a real UFO in 1963. A clearly supersonic or hypersonic craft (we got boomed with fair regularity in those days, so we were familiar with it) leaving a string-of-pearls contrail, which to this day I have not found any record of having existed that long ago. I had no interest in the occult when I was 10 years old and have none now. It was not a flying saucer, though, so it probably doesn't count.

I might suggest that their "UFOs" are a product of those selfsame nightmares.

I have, which is how I arrived at the position I hold now.

The fact is that 99% of reported UFO sightings can be explained by natural means. That is a given from the research of the prominent scientists that have thoroughly researched them. But there is 1% that cannot be explained, and yet for those who observed them they were very real and they stuck to their stories even when some were given polygraph tests. What they saw was certainly real to them, to the extent that many had recurring terrifying nightmares afterward. The scientists who researched them have no explanation for them, after testing all the sightings with the criteria I have already listed. So if all the possible natural explanations are discounted, what is there left? Only unexplained phenomena.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You do not just give your opinion, you repeatedly provide specific factual claims ("it does this and that"). But without even 1 detail where, when, who saw that... and without any evidence.

See my latest post to Jipsah. There is natural evidence for 99% of the sightings, but no natural evidence for the remaining 1%. The bottom line is that for the 1%, although they were very real for those who saw them, the scientists don't know exactly what they are.

 

[Jipsah]

See my latest post to Jipsah. There is natural evidence for 99% of the sightings, but no natural evidence for the remaining 1%. The bottom line is that for the 1%, although they were very real for those who saw them, the scientists don't know exactly what they are.

But the statistical probability is that they are natural stuff as well, is it not?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

But the statistical probability is that they are natural stuff as well, is it not?

The fact is that the most expert scientist UFO researchers don't know. All the criteria that they know that would fit the 1% into natural explanations don't. This is why the Christian ones' only explanation is that they very well could be demonic.

Anyhow, I have said all I can say about this, and any further comments would me just repeating myself. So after a very enjoyable and stimulating discussion, which I thank you all for, I am going to leave it at that.

 

[Jipsah]

The fact is that the most expert scientist UFO researchers don't know.

Right. Insufficient data. If all you have is a grainy pic of a featureless lighted glob,, there just isn't much to go on.

All the criteria that they know that would fit the 1% into natural explanations don't.

Not true. There's nothing in the pic of the lighted glob to eliminate is as being anything at all of a similar size and shape,

This is why the Christian ones' only explanation is that they very well could be demonic.

Which is grossly illogical.

Anyhow, I have said all I can say about this, and any further comments would me just repeating myself. So after a very enjoyable and stimulating discussion, which I thank you all for, I am going to leave it at that.

Best to you,

 

[anetazo]

Angels fly the UFOs. They are circular vehicles, highly polished bronze.
Ezekiel chapter 1 gives a description of these circular vehicles.
God and His Throne was transported on one these circular vehicles.
It's not mystery of your student of the bible.
The heathen and biblically illiterate Christians are clueless and dismayed.
Acts chapter 1 . Jesus was taking up and two angels appeared before the apostles.
How did Jesus and the Angel's get to earth??.
They were transported by circular vehicle.
In Daniel 9:21. . God heard Daniel confession and prayers. Gabriel flying swiftly to Daniel.
How was Gabriel able to get to Daniel??.
A circular vehicle. Gabriel was transported!.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Angels fly the UFOs. They are circular vehicles, highly polished bronze.
Ezekiel chapter 1 gives a description of these circular vehicles.
God and His Throne was transported on one these circular vehicles.
It's not mystery of your student of the bible.
The heathen and biblically illiterate Christians are clueless and dismayed.
Acts chapter 1 . Jesus was taking up and two angels appeared before the apostles.
How did Jesus and the Angel's get to earth??.
They were transported by circular vehicle.
In Daniel 9:21. . God heard Daniel confession and prayers. Gabriel flying swiftly to Daniel.
How was Gabriel able to get to Daniel??.
A circular vehicle. Gabriel was transported!.

there is an excellent book on UFOs titled, "Alien Intrusion" by Gary Bates, (2004) Creation.com. It is comprehensive and deals with all the principles involved with UFOs. Well worth a read if you can get a copy. I got mine from my local Christian second hand book store.

 

[Jipsah]

Angels fly the UFOs. They are circular vehicles, highly polished bronze.

Since most if mnot all UFOs are misidentified aircraft, no.

Ezekiel chapter 1 gives a description of these circular vehicles.

That's was probably an angelic manifestation, that would make it an IFO, wouldn't it?

God and His Throne was transported on one these circular vehicles.

God requires transportation. Hmmmm....

It's not mystery of your student of the bible.
The heathen and biblically illiterate Christians are clueless and dismayed.

Sorry to hear it.

Acts chapter 1 . Jesus was taking up and two angels appeared before the apostles.

Yep.

How did Jesus and the Angel's get to earth??.

Any way they wanted to. They're angels.

They were transported by circular vehicle.

Chapter and verse, please.

In Daniel 9:21. . God heard Daniel confession and prayers. Gabriel flying swiftly to Daniel.

Very commendable.

How was Gabriel able to get to Daniel??.
A circular vehicle. Gabriel was transported!.

Chapter and verse. YOu're beliefs are interesting, but as best I can tell, completely baseless.