UFO Phenomenon?

[Jipsah]

We know "UFO's" don't come from outer space, because astronomers all agree that there are no planets apart from the earth which could support biological life.

Yeah, ET explanations UFOs are unlikely, but people don't find the likely explanations entertaining. What'd be more exciting, thinking the UFO you saw Violating the Laws of Physics was really an airliner on its way to Cleveland, and its impossible behavior was simply an illusiion created by atmospheric conditions, or a flying saucer driven by aliens or demons?

There's a lot of secret government projects going on all over the world.

Yep. And the technology is advancing my leaps and bounds.

Most of the great discoveries were made by men who were channeling spirits.

Hogwash.

Mans intellectual capacity is very limited, but those in the spiritual realm have accumulated knowledge over many thousands of years.

More hogwash.

Those who poses secret knowledge ule the world, they don't use jet fuel to propel their aircraft. Those in the spiritual realm can manifest in our realm, they can take on any disguise. Their main purpose is deceive man kind and lead us to destruction.

Fantasyland.

 

[jacks]

You could say the same for elves.

Yes, you could.

 

[Riot42]

A hoax on this scale is not possible. It seems pretty foolish to me to stick your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing to see here. I think people denying what is happening is similar to the robots in Westworld saying "Doesn't look like anything to me." when they see something that goes against their programming.

If you watch the latest "jellyfish" UFO footage you cannot deny that whatever it is is a threat to national security. The fact that they allowed it to float over a military base proves that its not simply a bundle of balloons or anything that could be shot down for that matter because they would have shot it down if they could, that's restricted airspace of the highest degree. IF it was a bundle of balloons as an example, it would be a threat to the base because it could have a hand grenade attached as an example and they would have destroyed it.

EVEN IF you don't believe, you should be concerned that there are secret programs within our government spending 10s of millions of dollars without congressional oversight or approval, no one should deny this is a huge problem it goes against the very foundation of our nation and laws and it should be of the highest priority to get to the bottom of whatever it is even if you don't believe you should want answers from your government. Id love a naysayer to give a reasonable objection as to why our government should not investigate misuse of our tax dollars if you can.

I think until we know more the safest thing to call them is "Non-human intelligence" as this covers all bases except for time traveling humans. The term alien seems too dated. We have evidence that at least some of these beings have been here for thousands of years, at what point do they earn their green cards?

I don't believe we should get caught in the weeds of where they came from or how they got here without them actually telling us. Just acknowledge the fact that SOMETHING is here. Getting into arguments like "other planets are too far to travel to and from" is nonsensical because you don't know what they are capable of.

 

[Jipsah]

A hoax on this scale is not possible.

No hoax necessary. The credulous fill in the blanks to suit themselves. "We saw something we couldn't identify" becomes "Aliens/demons are swarming like mosquitoes!"

It seems pretty foolish to me to stick your head in the sand and pretend there is nothing to see here.

I find it ridiculous to decide that any time anyone sees somthing they can't immediately ID, it must therefore be spacemen or demons or elves or what have you. That's just goofy.

I think people denying what is happening

What precisely do you believe is "happening"?

If you watch the latest "jellyfish" UFO footage you cannot deny that whatever it is is a threat to national security.

Yeah, "whatever it is" must be a Threat To National Security. I mean, we don't need to worry about huge baloons filled with state-of-the-art surveillance gear drifting around the country at their leisure surveiling away like mad, but a Flying Jellyfish, whatever it is, is a real cause for concern. Right.

The fact that they allowed it to float over a military base proves that its not simply a bundle of balloons or anything that could be shot down

YOu mean like they didn't shoot down the spy balloons? Because, yeah, balloons are really hard to hit...

for that matter because they would have shot it down if they could

Really? Even if they were, say, Chinese?

EVEN IF you don't believe

Again, believe what? Spacemen? <ROFL>

I think until we know more the safest thing to call them is "Non-human intelligence"

I can't imagine anything more ludicrous than calling something "Non-human intelligence", when there is, in all probability, outside of relatively intelligent animals no such thing.

as this covers all bases except for time traveling humans.

Why excluse anyone? Let toss in elves and time travelers, interdimensional many-tenticled meanies, leprechauns, ninja-turtles, ad infinitum. Why leave any imaginary critter unconsidered?

The term alien seems too dated.

Maybe existentially challenged would be better.

We have evidence that at least some of these beings have been here for thousands of years

For instance?

I don't believe we should get caught in the weeds of where they came from or how they got

Especially when they probably don't exist at all.

you don't know what they are capable of.

That's easy. Fictional characters can do anything! That's why they're so handy.

 

[Dan1988]

Yeah, ET explanations UFOs are unlikely, but people don't find the likely explanations entertaining. What'd be more exciting, thinking the UFO you saw Violating the Laws of Physics was really an airliner on its way to Cleveland, and its impossible behavior was simply an illusiion created by atmospheric conditions, or a flying saucer driven by aliens or demons?

Yep. And the technology is advancing my leaps and bounds.

Hogwash.

More hogwash.

Fantasyland.

There have been millions of sightings and encounters with these unexplained mysterious entities, over thousands of years. But you come along and dismiss them all as hogwash. You didn't qualify your opinion with any documents or facts, all you did was impose your own private opinion as you're some kind of authority on the subject.

With all due respect "if any" let me remind you that opinions are like noses, everyone has to have one. That puts your opinion among the 8 billion other unqualified hogwash opinions. I was hoping to hear from someone who actually knew something about the subject, but thanks for the entertainment anyway.

 

[Jipsah]

There have been millions of sightings and encounters with these unexplained mysterious entities, over thousands of years.

Ah, these mysterious entities. I think a lot of them were explained. They're fairies, elves, orges, leprechauns, djinn, ghoulies, ghosties, long-leggety-beasties, ad infinitum. Every culture has its own varieties. Now they're "aliens". Sure, wehy not?

But you come along and dismiss them all as hogwash.

Seen any of those critters, call them what you will, lately? If so, didja get any pics to share with us?

You didn't qualify your opinion with any documents or facts

How about the fact of any evidence at all of your favorite "aliens"? The old "prove there ain't any" nonsense is still as nonsensical as ever. Prove that whales don't telepathically speak French to each other, why don't ou? Or better yet, how about a little evidence of " these unexplained mysterious entities" of yours. Prove they exist, or barring that, just some decent evidence that they do.

, all you did was impose your own private opinion as you're some kind of authority on the subject.

And all you have in response it to offewr your opinion to counter mine. But my opinion should be easy to falsify - show us some evidence that your aliens exist. Not only would it give you bragging rights, it would probably make you rich and famous. You say they're there, I say they ain't. You say you have a straight flush, I say not until you lay the cards down, you don't.

With all due respect "if any" let me remind you that opinions are like noses, everyone has to have one.

Prove your case, show me a reason to share your faith in the existence of spaceman, or demons passing whenselves off as spacemen. Should be easy, unless it's simply matter of faith on your part. Aliens and flying sauceers aren't part of m religion. If you have any good reason why you recko they should be, let's hear it. Else it's all a lot of hot air.

That puts your opinion among the 8 billion other unqualified hogwash opinions.

Any why should I accept your opinion that aliens, demonic or not, exist any more than do elves and pixies.? Sounds like hogwash to me.

I was hoping to hear from someone who actually knew something

Or, more likely, someone who shared your faith in "aliens".

about the subject, but thanks for the entertainment anyway.

My pleasure!

 

[contratodo]

Blaspheme concerning things outside of the sky, in heaven, is part of the end time deception.

"he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle,
and them that dwell in heaven" Revelation 13:6

 

[Jipsah]

Blaspheme concerning things outside of the sky, in heaven, is part of the end time deception.

"he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle,
and them that dwell in heaven" Revelation 13:6

Blasphemy my hind leg. Believing in a flat earth is just ridiculous, and prima facie evidence that one is profoundly ignorant. It has no bearing on the Christian Faith one way or another.

Belief in aliens, demonic or otherwise, is, IMO, weird, but so are a good many other beliefs that people hold as adjuncts to their religion. Until somebody comes up with some actual evidence ("billions of people have seen flying things they couldn't identify!" isn't evidence of anything at all) I'll assume there's Nobody Out There).

And no, Bob, Angels aren't aliens, they're angels.

 

[Dan1988]

Ah, these mysterious entities. I think a lot of them were explained. They're fairies, elves, orges, leprechauns, djinn, ghoulies, ghosties, long-leggety-beasties, ad infinitum. Every culture has its own varieties. Now they're "aliens". Sure, wehy not?

Seen any of those critters, call them what you will, lately? If so, didja get any pics to share with us?

How about the fact of any evidence at all of your favorite "aliens"? The old "prove there ain't any" nonsense is still as nonsensical as ever. Prove that whales don't telepathically speak French to each other, why don't ou? Or better yet, how about a little evidence of " these unexplained mysterious entities" of yours. Prove they exist, or barring that, just some decent evidence that they do.

And all you have in response it to offewr your opinion to counter mine. But my opinion should be easy to falsify - show us some evidence that your aliens exist. Not only would it give you bragging rights, it would probably make you rich and famous. You say they're there, I say they ain't. You say you have a straight flush, I say not until you lay the cards down, you don't.

Prove your case, show me a reason to share your faith in the existence of spaceman, or demons passing whenselves off as spacemen. Should be easy, unless it's simply matter of faith on your part. Aliens and flying sauceers aren't part of m religion. If you have any good reason why you recko they should be, let's hear it. Else it's all a lot of hot air.

Any why should I accept your opinion that aliens, demonic or not, exist any more than do elves and pixies.? Sounds like hogwash to me.

Or, more likely, someone who shared your faith in "aliens".

My pleasure!

Just a few facts to consider before you dismiss the spiritual realm as hogwash.

1. Spirits operate in the shadows, they never reveal their true identity when they manifest in our realm. They usually appear in the guise of loved ones who have departed, or they can manifest in any other form.

2. Their main aim is to deceive people into believing that the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is not true (Jesus made it clear that nobody is able to return from the dead as a ghost. He said "it is appointed onto man to die once and then the judgement").

3. These wicked Spirits never reveal themselves or bother those who don't believe in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, they're content to let them stay on the road that leads to their eternal damnation in hell. They only target believers in an attempt to make them lose their faith.

So we're not autonomous spirits after we die. We are either cast into hell by the Lord Jesus Christ, from which there is no escape or we go to be with the Lord in heaven. There is no third option but the deceiving Spirits want us to believe that the Lord is not in control of all things.

I don't have any pics of the four occasions I came into contact with demonic spirits, but there are thousands of others who did catch them on film. You could do a search and see the pictures for yourself. Many of these were captured before the advent of CGI and Photoshop.

One thing we all need to consider for our own good, is the truth remains forever true so our opinions don't matter at all. Our opinions and views don't have any baring on the truth ad the Lord will have His was no matter what we say, think or believe.

The Lord has revealed Himself to me, so I don't have any doubts about the fact that He is the Almighty God who created everything that exists (including the spiritual realm). He has full control over everything that happens and He has preordained all of mankind's history from the begging to the end, and nobody can change a single thing. His will has always been done and always will be

 

[Jipsah]

Just a few facts to consider before you dismiss the spiritual realm as hogwash.

I didn't.

1. Spirits operate in the shadows, they never reveal their true identity when they manifest in our realm. They usually appear in the guise of loved ones who have departed, or they can manifest in any other form.

I.E., ghosts.

3. These wicked Spirits never reveal themselves or bother those who don't believe in the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, they're content to let them stay on the road that leads to their eternal damnation in hell. They only target believers in an attempt to make them lose their faith.

So only Christians see flying saucers? Hmmmm...

I don't have any pics of the four occasions I came into contact with demonic spirits

OK

, but there are thousands of others who did catch them on film. You could do a search and see the pictures for yourself.

I have. So far I haven't been impressed.

Many of these were captured before the advent of CGI and Photoshop.

So were the Cottingley Fairies.

One thing we all need to consider for our own good, is the truth remains forever true so our opinions don't matter at all. Our opinions and views don't have any baring on the truth ad the Lord will have His was no matter what we say, think or believe.

Obviously. Funny, though. The Bible doesn't have a lot to say about the supposed magical powers of demons. All we see them doing is tormenting unfortunates, and whining like whipped curs when our Lord gives them orders.

The Lord has revealed Himself to me

That's cool. Regular folks like me just have to depend on the Bible.

, so I don't have any doubts about the fact that He is the Almighty God who created everything that exists

Same here.

(including the spiritual realm).

Our views of that appear to differ to a dramatic extent. Maybe just the literal mindedness for which engineers are notorious, but I don't see demons as being the evil demigods that some folks appear to do.They're bad news, of course, but our Lord sends them packing with a word.

As for "aliens are demons" my response is always the same - what aliens? If you wanna arguie that aliens are demons, you first have to persuade me that there are any aliens. :"Old Joe seen some last August" and "aliens landed in my back yard" aren't particularly persuasive.

He has full control over everything that happens and He has preordained all of mankind's history from the begging to the end, and nobody can change a single thing. His will has always been done and always will be

Yet sinners will b tortured for all eternity. Hmmm....

 

[Riot42]

No hoax necessary. The credulous fill in the blanks to suit themselves. "We saw something we couldn't identify" becomes "Aliens/demons are swarming like mosquitoes!"

I find it ridiculous to decide that any time anyone sees somthing they can't immediately ID, it must therefore be spacemen or demons or elves or what have you. That's just goofy.

What precisely do you believe is "happening"?

Yeah, "whatever it is" must be a Threat To National Security. I mean, we don't need to worry about huge baloons filled with state-of-the-art surveillance gear drifting around the country at their leisure surveiling away like mad, but a Flying Jellyfish, whatever it is, is a real cause for concern. Right.

YOu mean like they didn't shoot down the spy balloons? Because, yeah, balloons are really hard to hit...

Really? Even if they were, say, Chinese?

Again, believe what? Spacemen? <ROFL>

I can't imagine anything more ludicrous than calling something "Non-human intelligence", when there is, in all probability, outside of relatively intelligent animals no such thing.

Why excluse anyone? Let toss in elves and time travelers, interdimensional many-tenticled meanies, leprechauns, ninja-turtles, ad infinitum. Why leave any imaginary critter unconsidered?

Maybe existentially challenged would be better.


For instance?

Especially when they probably don't exist at all.

That's easy. Fictional characters can do anything! That's why they're so handy.

The entirety of your responses can be summed up into "Doesn't look like anything to me."

If you aren't familiar with Westworld, this is what the robots say whenever they are presented with evidence that they are not human to ignore the evidence and keep them from becoming self aware and open their minds to reality.

The better question is, what do you think is happening? I bet it will be a variation of "Doesn't look like anything to me."

 

[Jipsah]

The entirety of your responses can be summed up into "Doesn't look like anything to me."
If you aren't familiar with Westworld, this is what the robots say whenever they are presented with evidence that they are not human to ignore the evidence and keep them from becoming self aware and open their minds to reality.

How interesting! I don't really do TV, though. The quote sounds like something that a sane and charitable person might say to a madman, don't you agree?

The better question is, what do you think is happening?

I think people are seeing things they can't identify, and using the time-honored technique of "logical defenestration" coming up with the least likely possible explanation.

It works like this. Person sees a flying something in the sky. Can't tell what it is, but it doesn't look like anything they'eve ever seen It appears to be moving in an completely impossible way.

What conclusions can they draw?
Scenario 1
It could be a perfectly ordinary object imperfectly seen. Happens all the time.
It's apparent impossible maneuvers, being impossible, are probably optical illusions. Why? Because optical illusions aren't at all uncommon, and impossible maneuvers are, well, impossible.
Conclusion: "I wonder what that was?" Not exciting at all. but perfectly logical, there simply not enough reliable data there to draw

Scenario 2
The object is performing impossible maneuvers.
Impossible maneuvers are impossible without the use of magic or a level of technology indistinguishable from magic, ergo the object must be using one or the other.
The object is unidentifiable because it is a spacecraft or equivalent from a another plant/dimension/time
The operators are spacemen, demons, or time travelers from a time or place where magic is possible.
Conclusion: the object is a flying saucer (or whatever term you prefer) driven by spacemen/demons/time lords/transdimensional beings.

One of those conclusions is logical, one isn't, even remotely. One is based on normal observable phenomena, one is based on imaginary stuff in wholesale quantities. I hesitate to say it given the number who love the idea of spacemen and flying saucers, but one is reasonable and one is simply silly, based on things there there is no reason to believe exist at all. One is logical. one is based solely on imagination,.

Believe whichever one you like, but I'll have to lump you in with the flat-earthers and such.

I bet it will be a variation of "Doesn't look like anything to me."

Your bet is as illogical as your beliefs in flying saucers, and probably a result of watching too much teevee.

Here's a real world one for you. 1963, Nashville Tennessee. Bright day, early afternoon. Summer, can't be more precise than that. Playing in the back yard. Mom hanging out clothes.

Suddenly, sonic booms. Tiny silver dot in the eastern sky. Wham, wham. WHAM WHAM WHAM WHAM... gone. String of pearls contrail. Horizon to horizon in scant seconds. End story.

Even at age nine I was well read enough (little half-Asian geekboy, imagine that!) and rational enough that my response was "Wow, new supersonic fighter!" Perfectly logical.The idea that it was spacemen or some such nonsense never occured to me. That appears to be a something that later generations have embraced. They lack the comon sense to say "what's the most likely explanation", but leap direct to the idea that has no nasis in reality at all.

If you aren't familiar with Westworld, this is what the robots say whenever they are presented with evidence that they are not human

You realize that Westworld is science fiction, right? And you realkize that you're trying to use science fiction to make real world judgements, right? Sorry mate, but that just doesn't work.

to ignore the evidence

The evidence being "I couldn't recognize it, it did impossible stuff, it had to be spacemen/demons/time travelers/interdimensional goomer using their magic. Yep, I find that kind of "evidence" easy to ignore, because it's dumb.

and keep them from becoming self aware

Oh, like the "self aware AIs" that y'all like to worry about? <Laugh>

and open their minds to reality.

Just like on teevee.

The better question is, what do you think is happening? I bet it will be a variation of "Doesn't look like anything to me."

Sorry, I'll leave that for folks who get their reality cues from corny teevee shows.

 

[Riot42]

How interesting! I don't really do TV, though. The quote sounds like something that a sane and charitable person might say to a madman, don't you agree?

No, its something that someone with a closed mind would say that is not interested in looking into something and would rather brush it off because it threatens their current worldview.

I think people are seeing things they can't identify, and using the time-honored technique of "logical defenestration" coming up with the least likely possible explanation.

You are correct in that there are many false positives, however most credible accounts and witnesses arent coming to any possible explanation. Take the account of Commander David Fraver as an example. He is a Naval wing Commander of a world famous strike fighter wing, the best of the best of the best. He is a subject matter expert on aviation of the highest degree. His record is perfect and his character immutable. He doesnt come to any "least likely possible explanation." He testified under oath to congress under penalty of perjury and risk to his reputation for no monetary gain what he saw without any drawn conclusions, you cannot deny his testimony or what he saw because its on tape. He explains what he recorded and saw with his own two eyes as a "white tic tac object with no visible control surface" and that vehicle breaking known laws of physics ascending straight up to 80,000 feet (thats space) and was able to immediately come down to 12,000 feet which is not possible with any human many avionics.

Here is a link to his testimony if you are actually interested in doing more than hand waiving this away.

Here is video footage he took of the event with him describing it.

Im curious if you will actually look at this or just respond with another version of "Doesnt look like anything to me."

You realize that Westworld is science fiction, right? And you realkize that you're trying to use science fiction to make real world judgements, right? Sorry mate, but that just doesn't wor

Im using a science fiction trope to point out the absurdity of ignoring evidence right in front of your face because it threatens your worldview. It works just fine, prove me wrong by watching the linked clips and telling me what you think as it completely negates your arguments. No conclusions are made, only a witness describing what he saw and videotaped. You cannot deny what happened, a UAP broke the known laws of physics and avionics going 1000x faster than the fastest jet ever built and we have it on record both on tape and eyewitness testimony from a subject matter expert.

 

[Jipsah]

No, its something that someone with a closed mind would say

Ooooh, a closed mind! That's a terrible thing to have innit? But I admit to having a closed mind on a variety of topics. For instance, Flerfers (Flat Earth believers routinely, and quite correctly, accuse me in righteous tones of being closed minded due to my refusal to consider their "proofs" that the earth is shaped like a pizza with a wall of ice around the perimeter. I find the idea ludicrous, and yes, I refuse to consider it. Same with the idea that "aliens" built the pyramids

that is not interested in looking into something and would rather brush it off because it threatens their current worldview.

So say the flerfers, but I brush their ideas off because I believe they're stupid. And so it is with some of the ideas that fans of Spacemen/Demons) and Flying Saucers hold dear. The first and foremost is the absurd claim made by a great majority of Saucer Buffs, i.e., "It Defied the Laws of Physics". Reciting that bit of rubbish immediately causes me to assume that that translates to "It did stuff I don't think are possible". The reference to Physics is purely rhetorical, because most of these folks don't have any clue what "Physics" means at all. It also renders their report absurd, because nothing with mass "defies the laws of Physics". They usually dig the hole even deeper by blathering about how it had to have been aliens or demons or critters from another dimension and/or universe, because those critters can obviously use their Alien Magic to evade the rules God established to govern this universe (which is, as far we can tell, the only universe He did create.)

So Rule 1: If the observer says "It defied the Laws of Physics", the observers report is therefore suspect, because Nothing With Mass Defies The Laws of Physics. If the observer invokes alien technomagic or demonic magic to "explain" how that works, his credibilty drops to zero, because (Closed Mindness Alert!) There Ain't No Such Thing As Magic", techo or otherwise.

Take the account of Commander David Fraver as an example. He is a Naval wing Commander of a world famous strike fighter wing, the best of the best of the best. He is a subject matter expert on aviation of the highest degree. His record is perfect and his character immutable.

Sounds good to me.

He doesnt come to any "least likely possible explanation."

We'll see.

you cannot deny his testimony

I can easily deny his conclusions, though.

He explains what he recorded and saw with his own two eyes as a "white tic tac object with no visible control surface"

Sounds like a drone, there, dunnit?

and that vehicle breaking known laws of physics ascending straight up to 80,000 feet (thats space) and was able to immediately come down to 12,000 feet which is not possible with any human many avionics.

Interesting choice of words, although they're probably not the ones you wanted. "Avionics" are the electronic suites carried by aircraft, which are extraordinarily advanced in military aircraft. And that brings us to what the good commander "saw". What he most certainly didn't see was the flying tic-tac climbing to 80,000 feet and then immediately back to angels 12. It would be humanly impossible for him to follow. He got that information from his avionics suite.

I've told this tale till it has whiskers on it, so I'll give you the short form. A ham radio buddy and I built, from our junk boxes and about $75 worth of mail-order stuff, a device to confuse police traffic radar. In a test with a mutual cop buddy who is also a ham. it made the radar in his patrol car show a car (mine, with spoofing device switched on) to be traveling, in several passes, at between 150 and 300 miles per hour. And trust me, it wasn't.

Bottom line, radar and avionics can be faked out.

First clue is " it defied the laws of Physics". No, it didn't. If your instruments say it did, your instruments have been faked out.

No aliens, demons, or magic required. Just some few rooms full of uber-geeks with unlimited resources. But then nobody has anything like that, do they? Hmmm... Maybe a global superpower that produces more engineers than any other in the world? Buncha folks that provide the world with most of its electronic devices?

Nah, that's too hard to believe.

Simplest answer must be magic aliens or demons or shapeshifters or elves or flying saucers. I mean, once you've chucked logic out the window (Logical Defenestration), anyway.

Technical prowess be dogged, we cain't be tricked by no Chinamen! It has to be magical aliens from outer space or demons from hell.

So, TicTac drone, loaded with avionics, 5th generation ECM suites fakes out avionics on US fighters and hilarity ensues, while the True Believers close eyes, stick fingers in ears, and chant "space men, space men, space men...".

Good job they're not closed minded, innit?

Here is a link to his testimony if you are actually interested in doing more than hand waiving this away.

Maybe you shoulda read it first.

Im curious if you will actually look at this or just respond with another version of "Doesnt look like anything to me."

I'll be keen to see if you have any response except to recite that mantra.

Im using a science fiction trope to point out the absurdity of ignoring evidence right in front of your face because it threatens your worldview.

You seem to have ignored the evidence your Navy hero couldn't have possibly seen what you claim he did, except on his potentially hoodooed instruments.
Nah, gotta be Alien/Demonic Magic.
Right. Speaking of clutching at irrational world viewsa...

it completely negates your arguments.

Quite the reverse, it knocks your Spacemen & Flying Saucers mythos into a cocked hat. The TicTac, IMO, probably didn't move at all, or no moreso than my car went 300 mph (no demons were involved with that, either.) It simply told the commander's avionics that's what happened.
But if you prefer magic...

No conclusions are made,

Defied the laws of Physics?

only a witness describing what he saw

But he didn't.

a UAP broke the known laws of physics and avionics going 1000x faster than the fastest jet ever built

The instruments clearly said so, right?

Trick is, you have your mythology, and I don't share it. I'm just an old engineer, what do I know how any of this stuff works? In my word, nothing defies Physics, its laws are part of God's design.

You prefer mystical magical foofoo, wear yourself out. Just don't imagine it has any more logic behind it than does flat earth or any other bit of superstitious rubbish.

 

[Riot42]

So you didnt watch the videos did you? That was quite the nonsensical way to say "Doesn't look like anything to me" by bringing up aliens, demons, and flat earthers which only you are bringing up.

I started to respond to your nonsense but its clearly a waste of my time. Get behind me, you are now on ignore.

 

[Jipsah]

So you didnt watch the videos did you?

Watched 'em when they were first published. You were late to the party.

That was quite the nonsensical way to say "Doesn't look like anything to me"

There's the mantra again. Repeating it is easier than thinking, I reckon.

by bringing up aliens, demons, and flat earthers which only you are bringing up.

Which of the first two do you reckon were driving the Tic-Tac? Who else has the necessary magical powers?

I started to respond to your nonsense

Wow, sorry I missed that. I'm sure you'd have sorted me out with a few more repetitions of your mantra.

but its clearly a waste of my time. Get behind me, you are now on ignore.

 

[Niels]

The assumption that UFOs must have mass is an interesting one. Photons are obviously involved, as people are able to see the things, but being massless would allow them to change directions instantly, travel through water without making a splash etc.

Maybe they are like pointer dots, and we're like cats chasing after them. Ever notice how quickly you can make a laser dot change directions?

If a Boeing airliner exhibited the same behavior, with documented passengers and pilots to confirm it was real, I might see an argument for the violation of physical laws. But when mysterious lights or a floating orb behaves that way? It suggests to me that we're dealing with something else. No violation of physics required. It wouldn't even require inter-dimensional beings. Just sufficiently advanced photonics with some kind of projection system. Advanced technology to be sure, but not necessarily suggestive of alien involvement.

Then again, UFO/UAP is a broad category. We could be dealing with everything from classified military aircraft to hobbyist practical jokers to demonc or angelic activity, along with more common yet misidentified things in the sky. Possibly all of the above at different times.

 

[Dan1988]

I didn't.

I.E., ghosts.

So only Christians see flying saucers? Hmmmm...

OK

I have. So far I haven't been impressed.


So were the Cottingley Fairies.

Obviously. Funny, though. The Bible doesn't have a lot to say about the supposed magical powers of demons. All we see them doing is tormenting unfortunates, and whining like whipped curs when our Lord gives them orders.

That's cool. Regular folks like me just have to depend on the Bible.


Same here.


Our views of that appear to differ to a dramatic extent. Maybe just the literal mindedness for which engineers are notorious, but I don't see demons as being the evil demigods that some folks appear to do.They're bad news, of course, but our Lord sends them packing with a word.

As for "aliens are demons" my response is always the same - what aliens? If you wanna arguie that aliens are demons, you first have to persuade me that there are any aliens. :"Old Joe seen some last August" and "aliens landed in my back yard" aren't particularly persuasive.

Yet sinners will b tortured for all eternity. Hmmm....

The Bible does have a lot to say about Spirits, Ghosts and other strange creatures. You just need to do a Bible study on the subject and you'll be surprised at just how much the Bible does say.

Many of the pre flood creatures still exist today. The fallen Angels corrupted the seed of man by gene manipulation and cross breeding species to form abominations. That's why God wiped most of them out with Noah's flood.

Our generation is witnessing the same corruption as Noah's generation did. The fallen Angels are corrupting mankind's seed again and producing abominations. You haven't seen them yet, because they hide in the shadows but they will reveal themselves at the appointed time.

The Bible describes these creatures as being part human and part animal. It says they will torment men for four months, and the men will want to die because of the pain but they won' be able to die.

We can't cherry pick the Bible and dismiss those parts we don't like, as fairytales.

 

[John Lamb]

Do Christians really believe in aliens on a Christian forum? There is a load of anecdotal evidence but why don't Christians know it’s demonic, visions etc.

 

[Paul4JC]

Diana Pasulka has covered the subject well; initially, this was not even her goal.

Diana Pasulka is a religious studies professor at UNC Wilmington who has written three books: Heaven Can Wait, American Cosmic and Encounters

UFOs & Religion: Vatican Reveals Bizarre Link (ft. Diana Pasulka)​