Ubuntu (African Communalism) versus Western Individualism

[mindlight]

Talking to Africans and observing their politics I have noticed a strong tendency to the Ubuntu philosophy (the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity). This can be contrasted with Western individualism.

In an age when European society is dying from the disease of individualism with its fruit of low fertility rates, the demographic crisis, narcissism and selfishness, a crisis of identity and of belonging Ubuntu is an apt comparison.

African societies are often characterised by long and brutal civil wars, by dictators who will not surrender power, by overpopulation and poverty because of a high birth rate and large families.

Can Europeans learn from Africans and recover a sense of community?

can Africans learn from Europeans to have more personal discipline in their lives and a greater sense of how individuals can make a difference and challenge disturbing trends in society?

What is the healthy balance between these 2 instincts?

 

[Tull]

The healthy balance is to allow people to observe their choices in these matters and make them and accept the consequences,every culture made up of human beings is flawed.

 

[RDKirk]

Talking to Africans and observing their politics I have noticed a strong tendency to the Ubuntu philosophy (the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity). This can we contrasted with Western individualism.

In an age when European society is dying from the disease of individualism with its fruit of low fertility rates, the demographic crisis, narcissism and selfishness, a crisis of identity and of belonging Ubuntu is an apt comparison.

African societies are often characterised by long and brutal civil wars, by dictators who will not surrender power, by overpopulation and poverty because of a high birth rate and large families.

Can Europeans learn from Africans and recover a sense of community?

can Africans learn from Europeans to have more personal discipline in their lives and a greater sense of how individuals can make a difference and challenge disturbing trends in society?

What is the healthy balance between these 2 instincts?

I dunno about that broad brush--there seems to be a degree or inflection of communalism in northern European concepts of community social and economic obligations.

 

[RDKirk]

The healthy balance is to allow people to observe their choices in these matters and make them and accept the consequences,every culture made up of human beings is flawed.

That's "Law of the Jungle."

 

[Tull]

That's "Law of the Jungle."

The law of the jungle is force which is what I suspect you support....forcing people to do what you think they should do,the self appointed arbiters of right and wrong have decided and all will now submit.

 

[RDKirk]

The law of the jungle is force which is what I suspect you support....forcing people to do what you think they should do,the self appointed arbiters of right and wrong have decided and all will now submit.

Is that worse than an individual accumulating the force necessary to do that himself?

 

[Tull]

Is that worse than an individual accumulating the force necessary to do that himself?

The lust for power and control is evil period,individual or otherwise.

 

[mindlight]

I dunno about that broad brush--there seems to be a degree or inflection of communalism in northern European concepts of community social and economic obligations.

African community is a network of personal relationships and stories about people. But European statism while talking the language of community is actually an impersonal bureaucracy that deals with people impartially regardless of their personality or stories.

 

[mindlight]

The healthy balance is to allow people to observe their choices in these matters and make them and accept the consequences,every culture made up of human beings is flawed.

No distinction is made between good and evil in the African community. It is those outside the community that can be regarded as evil. It is therefore a recipe for group conflicts. Also the stories and connections are themselves a model of chaos mechanics with absolute dynamism assumed. Being held to account by a community in this vision is less to do with the community itself which is rather chaotic and more to do with those who manage to secure positions of hierarchy and influence in that community. Group conflicts, strong man dictators and tribal genocides might all be considered fruit of such a communal world view

 

[Nithavela]

The lust for power and control is evil period,individual or otherwise.

Without power, one cannot change the world, not even for the better.

 

[RDKirk]

African community is a network of personal relationships and stories about people. But European statism while talking the language of community is actually an impersonal bureaucracy that deals with people impartially regardless of their personality or stories.

I heard a soliloquy on a television science fiction program the other night. The speaker is a revolutionary leader 300 years in the future of the "Belters"--people who have colonized the asteroid belt and mine its minerals. He is speaking of the people of the inner planets--Mars and Earth--who have been cruelly exploiting the Belters for a couple of centuries. He says to his followers:

"The 'Inners' are not like us. When an Inner see a thing, his first thought is who owns that thing, and then he will strive to own it. But we Belters believe that if everyone contributes to the bowl, then the bowl will have enough for everyone."

 

[mindlight]

I heard a soliloquy on a television science fiction program the other night. The speaker is a revolutionary leader 300 years in the future of the "Belters"--people who have colonized the asteroid belt and mine its minerals. He is speaking of the people of the inner planets--Mars and Earth--who have been cruelly exploiting the Belters for a couple of centuries. He says to his followers:

"The 'Inners' are not like us. When an Inner see a thing, his first thought is who owns that thing, and then he will strive to own it. But we Belters believe that if everyone contributes to the bowl, then the bowl will have enough for everyone."

There you have it Hutus and Tutus. Shona and Matabele in a nutshell

 

[Tull]

Without power, one cannot change the world, not even for the better.

Perhaps,but many have died under the yoke of those who thought they had all the answers and the right to tell others how to live,with their wandering eyes that always seem to be focused on what others are doing,how they are living,thinking, always plotting,scheming how they may gain control,instead of working on their own life.