Two doves and two pigeons of Nativity

[SANTOSO]

I agree, it was extremely positive reformation of Judaism to do away with the rites of animal sacrifice. However, it remains as a perpetual shadow, a constant reminder in the slaughter of the Lamb of God on the cross, the ultimate human sacrifice…

Same basic idea..

Violence…

Beloved one, are you considering about the “shadow” ?
This is what we have heard:

“For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:1‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Also, we heard:
“But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So those whose minds have shadow or the law, they are the ones who offer the same sacrifices continually year by year.

But those whose minds on the Lord perceived that Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come.

So those whose minds who have shadow have not perceived the good things to come, that they have not perceived the very image of things, not understanding that the image of the Lamb of God is heavenly or spiritual.

Beloved one, perceive spiritually.

That we also have heard:
Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. -Isaiah 53:10

Beloved one, perceive and understanding that it is the will of the Lord, that the Lamb of God was slain, that He may may offer Himself as guilt offering, that He may see His offspring, that the Lord prolong Christ’s days, that the will of the Lord shall prosper in Christ’s hand.

Beloved one, perceive Christ’s grace, for worthy is the Lamb of God who was slain to receive power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory and blessing; this we heard in Revelation 5:12.

May God’s peace be with you. Amen

 

[com7fy8]

How do you justify the whole idea of animal sacrifice? Does it seem repulsive to you or are you okay with it?

I have understood that Biblical sacrifices were symbolic of Jesus being sacrificed for us. So . . . now . . . I don't find it necessary.

But I understand there is more to your question.

My basic is I trust God to guide what I do and eat. He knows what is really true.

If you dare to read more detail of things I have considered >

God's word seems to say we can eat anything.

So, yes I get curious, at times, about how the merciful shall receive mercy, and how might this apply to how I treat animals.

And so I am nicer to different creatures. But I will swat a mosquito so it does not kill or injure me because of infecting me with a virus.

But I have had a few items, otherwise, come to mind >

There are ones who are very heavy on not killing animals and birds; but they are ok with killing bugs. But I think I have seen how even tiny bugs can be very desirous of staying alive . . . perhaps somehow like us humans who have souls; so, then . . . what about all those plant lice being killed by cows eating grass? In case those lice bugs do have some sort of feeling and being for life, may be cows are serial killers of more creatures with souls, than the meat eating guy who might finish one cow a year, while he even allows a few bugs to live on him. So, he could kill one animal with a soul, per year, and let many bug souls have life on his body!

Of course, this is not convenient for ones who just don't want this to be true. Ones can have our ways of wanting to be God, to decide who it is ok to kill and who it isn't.

Not to mention > if there were no deliberate killing, by humans . . . there might not be much vegetation for humans to eat, once animals and bugs and birds got through with eating the plants and their seeds and fruit. So - - - then . . . if you really trust that nonhuman creatures have rights, this could lead to humans being eaten out of house and home. And if you pick and choose, you possibly are playing God as much as you might claim others are doing.

And when animals clean up a food source, they can suffer much more than during an animal sacrifice.

And some number of well-fed animals kill each other, including ones of their own kind . . . when they can. They are not all necessarily so innocent. I was told how ewes can not be fed from troughs with dividers between the feeding ewes; or else while one is eating, the divider can block her view of another ewe charging her in order to ram her in her rib cage; and that could kill her. And why do they do that? For social status over others.

Now, you could turn them all loose in the field, and they might not charge one another . . . out there with open viewing . . . while the cute little bunnies would multiply and then eat everything so plenty of creatures would suffer while dying of starvation.

So . . . I think God wants humans on this earth.

 

[disciple Clint]

Yes and no: for food, yes. But no matter how inhumane I consider it to consume other breathing thinking and feeling animals, or lesser brothers, at least there’s a sort of justification. You do it to survive. Weather it’s worth it or not is a matter of opinion and discussion.

As for religious killing to do away with your sin, no. I don’t find any justification… Why not find another way to appease the wrathful God without destroying an innocent life?

Or if a sacrificer equipped with a sword were to meet a wild lion or bear in one-on-one combat where the animal does have more or less equal grounds and stands a chance of survival, then I could very reluctantly say “it’s half way fair”.

But with a warped power dynamics of domesticated animals trusting the intelligent and armed humans, tied down with zero chance to escape or fight off their demise…. It’s anything but fair to me…

My relationship with God is much more important as far as I am concerned.

 

[James_Lai]

My relationship with God is much more important as far as I am concerned.

I understand. If Super Bully says, bully the least of these lesser brothers, you comply.

Is it what God is and wants us to be?

 

[James_Lai]

I have understood that Biblical sacrifices were symbolic of Jesus being sacrificed for us. So . . . now . . . I don't find it necessary.

But I understand there is more to your question.

My basic is I trust God to guide what I do and eat. He knows what is really true.

If you dare to read more detail of things I have considered >

God's word seems to say we can eat anything.

So, yes I get curious, at times, about how the merciful shall receive mercy, and how might this apply to how I treat animals.

And so I am nicer to different creatures. But I will swat a mosquito so it does not kill or injure me because of infecting me with a virus.

But I have had a few items, otherwise, come to mind >

There are ones who are very heavy on not killing animals and birds; but they are ok with killing bugs. But I think I have seen how even tiny bugs can be very desirous of staying alive . . . perhaps somehow like us humans who have souls; so, then . . . what about all those plant lice being killed by cows eating grass? In case those lice bugs do have some sort of feeling and being for life, may be cows are serial killers of more creatures with souls, than the meat eating guy who might finish one cow a year, while he even allows a few bugs to live on him. So, he could kill one animal with a soul, per year, and let many bug souls have life on his body!

Of course, this is not convenient for ones who just don't want this to be true. Ones can have our ways of wanting to be God, to decide who it is ok to kill and who it isn't.

Not to mention > if there were no deliberate killing, by humans . . . there might not be much vegetation for humans to eat, once animals and bugs and birds got through with eating the plants and their seeds and fruit. So - - - then . . . if you really trust that nonhuman creatures have rights, this could lead to humans being eaten out of house and home. And if you pick and choose, you possibly are playing God as much as you might claim others are doing.

And when animals clean up a food source, they can suffer much more than during an animal sacrifice.

And some number of well-fed animals kill each other, including ones of their own kind . . . when they can. They are not all necessarily so innocent. I was told how ewes can not be fed from troughs with dividers between the feeding ewes; or else while one is eating, the divider can block her view of another ewe charging her in order to ram her in her rib cage; and that could kill her. And why do they do that? For social status over others.

Now, you could turn them all loose in the field, and they might not charge one another . . . out there with open viewing . . . while the cute little bunnies would multiply and then eat everything so plenty of creatures would suffer while dying of starvation.

So . . . I think God wants humans on this earth.

Absolutely great post. You take the discussion to a different level.

Yes, life can definitely be cruel and unfair. Yes, many forms of life consume other life. Including us - we need organic food. Plants want to live, too. Life destroys other life accidentally all the time. We as humans try and take part in biosphere’s homeostasis by wildlife population control, often because our farming, housing construction or industrial activities messed it up in the first place. Our health and survival sometimes requires trumping other life - antibiotics, anyone? The food chain. Violence is as much part of nature as breathing for us. Child leopard snacking on a beautiful gazelle caught by her mother, how cruel is that! Or do we hate cute little leopard kitties? Cycle of life means without death there’s no life. Even plants eat the soil which is mostly dead life.

Yes, it’s all true.

I’m not advocating for an extreme view to eradicate all and any violence. Unfortunately, that would be insane. No matter how hard you try being a vegan, for example, sometimes it’s impossible to exclude using or consuming items that contain ingredients derived from slaughter of animals.

What I do advocate for us is to be wiser, kinder, more compassionate. Is it really so hard? Avoid the unnecessary violence. Renounce sacrificing animals for your sins because frankly, it’s a dumb idea… Humans came up with it at the dawn of our civilization when they also did some other nasty stuff… Are we to repeat all their choices automatically only because it’s how they understood their God Jehova?

We do reject much of the OT law today. Why not take it a step further?

 

[James_Lai]

Beloved one, are you considering about the “shadow” ?
This is what we have heard:

“For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:1‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Also, we heard:
“But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So those whose minds have shadow or the law, they are the ones who offer the same sacrifices continually year by year.

But those whose minds on the Lord perceived that Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come.

So those whose minds who have shadow have not perceived the good things to come, that they have not perceived the very image of things, not understanding that the image of the Lamb of God is heavenly or spiritual.

Beloved one, perceive spiritually.

That we also have heard:
Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. -Isaiah 53:10

Beloved one, perceive and understanding that it is the will of the Lord, that the Lamb of God was slain, that He may may offer Himself as guilt offering, that He may see His offspring, that the Lord prolong Christ’s days, that the will of the Lord shall prosper in Christ’s hand.

Beloved one, perceive Christ’s grace, for worthy is the Lamb of God who was slain to receive power, riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory and blessing; this we heard in Revelation 5:12.

May God’s peace be with you. Amen

Yes, Christian redemption theology is more advanced and doesn’t require animal sacrifice, which is great.

I was alluding exactly to Hebrews 10:1 .

To me, even a shadow isn’t good in the aspect of harming animals for your own ritualistic cleanliness… It might have been a great physiological tool to remove guilt 3 millennia ago, but… today in the 21st century we can be a little smarter than that.

 

[com7fy8]

Renounce sacrificing animals for your sins because frankly, it’s a dumb idea… Humans came up with it at the dawn of our civilization when they also did some other nasty stuff… Are we to repeat all their choices automatically?

There have been people who were not with God. They also sacrificed their children.

Possibly, among other things, God included animal sacrifice with His people in order to keep them from sacrificing children, plus He had ways of doing it which could culturally help to keep them from doing it to false gods.

But, also, it could have been intended to show them how their sins were able to bring death and loss. And there could be symbolism . . . how in order to forgive, blood must be shed. This could have a spiritual meaning . . . could be symbolic of how we need to bleed in order to forgive > by bleeding away our selfish and nasty stuff so we can become alive in love, instead, so we can forgive in love.

And, of course, it was meant to in a physical form prophesy the sacrifice of Jesus . . . the only sacrifice, really, which could be do right so we are truly forgiven.

Therefore, even God's way of sacrificing animals was meant to become out-of-date.

Another item > sacrificed animals were eaten . . . not totally wasted. It was part of the provision system so the priesthood people could get food.

And I now think of this . . . possibility . . . guessing, here >

If an animal is never killed, it can have a very cruel end. So, living healthy and strong for some time and being killed could be kinder, and the creature does not go to waste. But if you decide there is no killing, at all, and no eating of dead animals . . . you could have some smelly stuff, lying here and there . . . a lot of carcasses.

So, if everyone was vegan . . . animals could be competing for your food. You could be feeding doggies and kitties grain foods, of course. And wild deer and bugs could be eating themselves out of house and home, in the woods, and in desperation raiding your farming areas and shrubs and flowers around your houses. And those bunnies and squirrels could overpopulate and then suffer various diseases and starvation.

And overpopulated creatures can be very nasty to their own kind who are competing for breeding space and food.

Once, I was in Virginia Beach City, where they have little ponds and canals, here and there. One day, I came to a pond that was maybe thirty feet wide, with a little bend. There were maybe dozens of ducks all kind of crammed into this little pond, including with some babies. I thought of how all those ducks could be pooping in that water and fouling it up.

And a couple adult females with two babies swam near a lone mother with one baby duckie. And one of those adults went after the lone duckling and grabbed it near its head and kept dunking the poor little baby duck, I supposed in order to drown it in order to reduce the overpopulation . . . while its mother just swam nearby and the second adult duck stayed with the babies that were with them. So, it looked as though two adults could bully a baby of a single mother!

Then the baby getting attacked came up on shore near me; so I picked it up and tossed it toward its own mommy. But the attacking mother scrambled over the water to intercept the tossed duckling pretty much before it could hit the water. And its own mommy did not try to rescue it.

So, I saw how I had not been helping that tiny little thing, by putting it back in the water, to say the least! I was very disappointed in myself. But the baby then flapped itself over the water to get away from even its own mother . . . not to say how certainly it was not going to try to go up on land near me, again!!

 

[Clare73]

Hello.
I’m reading and reading the gospels, and always thinking about everything. So because it’s Christmas season or as it’s now customary to say Holiday Season to be politically correct, I read the gospels with emphases on Nativity.

In Luke 2:24, forty days following the first ever Christmas, Joseph and Mary bring newborn Jesus to the Jerusalem temple and offer two turtledoves or two young pigeons as per Leviticus 12:1-4 as a burnt and a sin offering to cleanse Mary from ceremonial uncleanliness after childbirth. If it were a girl, they’d have to wait for 80 days before performing this ritual…

I’ve studied the OT, and it’s clear what Joseph and Mary did there, following the Torah of Moses.

I’m a vegan and a passionate animal rights advocate. I often volunteer in a Humane Society. I’ve adopted several animals, one of them to save from euthanasia due to health and behavioural issues. I also love biology and studied ornithology as a hobby, especially how migrating birds navigate their annual flyways.

I understand very well the deep theological implications of animal sacrifice, but it hurts me to the core to read about two beautiful and gentle birds that were mercilessly slaughtered and one was burnt, and the blood of the other was smeared on Mary’s ear, thumb and toe. The senseless violence and disrespect towards the living creatures is simply shocking to me… So heartlessly cruel.

I have witnessed sheep sacrifice during Eid-al-Adha / Qurban Aid / Udhiya in Muslim countries… Not a pleasant sight at all, I feel sick to my stomach just thinking and writing about it right now….

I think about it a lot a lot. It makes absolutely no sense to me: it’s so weird that an almighty God would require and be satisfied by blood-shedding and burning of innocent animals as atonement for human sins. Pleasant aroma for Jehova’s nostrils… Again, I do understand very well the underlying theology that intertwines with the sacrifice of Jesus in the NT.

How do you justify the whole idea of animal sacrifice? Does it seem repulsive to you or are you okay with it?

I suspect your experience is part of the lesson.
Are you personifying animals?
I do.
Would you have a problem with a murdering butcher of children being killed in punishment?

Crickets. . .

 

[angelsaroundme]

"There are five main types of sacrifices, or offerings, in the Old Testament. The burnt offering (Leviticus 1; 6:8–13; 8:18-21; 16:24), the grain offering (Leviticus 2; 6:14–23), the peace offering (Leviticus 3; 7:11–34), the sin offering (Leviticus 4; 5:1–13; 6:24–30; 8:14–17; 16:3–22), and the trespass offering (Leviticus 5:14–19; 6:1–7; 7:1–6). Each of these sacrifices involved certain elements, either animal or fruit of the field, and had a specific purpose. Most were split into two or three portions—God’s portion, the portion for the Levites or priests, and, if there was a third, a portion kept by the person offering the sacrifice. The sacrifices can be broadly categorized as either voluntary or mandatory offerings."

People still kill animals to eat. A lot of the sacrifices were at least partially eaten by the priests and Levites. In a way I'd compare it to tithing, it was how the priests and Levites survived and were able to do their work of serving God.

"The animal’s hide was given to the Levites, who could later sell it to earn money for themselves."

- What were the various sacrifices in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

 

[James_Lai]

"There are five main types of sacrifices, or offerings, in the Old Testament. The burnt offering (Leviticus 1; 6:8–13; 8:18-21; 16:24), the grain offering (Leviticus 2; 6:14–23), the peace offering (Leviticus 3; 7:11–34), the sin offering (Leviticus 4; 5:1–13; 6:24–30; 8:14–17; 16:3–22), and the trespass offering (Leviticus 5:14–19; 6:1–7; 7:1–6). Each of these sacrifices involved certain elements, either animal or fruit of the field, and had a specific purpose. Most were split into two or three portions—God’s portion, the portion for the Levites or priests, and, if there was a third, a portion kept by the person offering the sacrifice. The sacrifices can be broadly categorized as either voluntary or mandatory offerings."

People still kill animals to eat. A lot of the sacrifices were at least partially eaten by the priests and Levites. In a way I'd compare it to tithing, it was how the priests and Levites survived and were able to do their work of serving God.

"The animal’s hide was given to the Levites, who could later sell it to earn money for themselves."

- What were the various sacrifices in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Yes, there was an economic motivation as well

 

[Clare73]

Yes, there was an economic motivation as well

No more so than the collection plate on Sunday.

Post #28?

 

[coffee4u]

I understand. If Super Bully says, bully the least of these lesser brothers, you comply.

Is it what God is and wants us to be?

A bully does not allow himself to be ridiculed, spat upon, nailed to a cross and left there until he is dead.

John 15:13
There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hello.
I’m reading and reading the gospels, and always thinking about everything. So because it’s Christmas season or as it’s now customary to say Holiday Season to be politically correct, I read the gospels with emphases on Nativity.

In Luke 2:24, forty days following the first ever Christmas, Joseph and Mary bring newborn Jesus to the Jerusalem temple and offer two turtledoves or two young pigeons as per Leviticus 12:1-4 as a burnt and a sin offering to cleanse Mary from ceremonial uncleanliness after childbirth. If it were a girl, they’d have to wait for 80 days before performing this ritual…

I’ve studied the OT, and it’s clear what Joseph and Mary did there, following the Torah of Moses.

I’m a vegan and a passionate animal rights advocate. I often volunteer in a Humane Society. I’ve adopted several animals, one of them to save from euthanasia due to health and behavioural issues. I also love biology and studied ornithology as a hobby, especially how migrating birds navigate their annual flyways.

I understand very well the deep theological implications of animal sacrifice, but it hurts me to the core to read about two beautiful and gentle birds that were mercilessly slaughtered and one was burnt, and the blood of the other was smeared on Mary’s ear, thumb and toe. The senseless violence and disrespect towards the living creatures is simply shocking to me… So heartlessly cruel.

I have witnessed sheep sacrifice during Eid-al-Adha / Qurban Aid / Udhiya in Muslim countries… Not a pleasant sight at all, I feel sick to my stomach just thinking and writing about it right now….

I think about it a lot a lot. It makes absolutely no sense to me: it’s so weird that an almighty God would require and be satisfied by blood-shedding and burning of innocent animals as atonement for human sins. Pleasant aroma for Jehova’s nostrils… Again, I do understand very well the underlying theology that intertwines with the sacrifice of Jesus in the NT.

How do you justify the whole idea of animal sacrifice? Does it seem repulsive to you or are you okay with it?

I'm not a big fan of it. But I also recognize that it's not my culture or religion, so my feelings are just going to be my own subjective feelings. Also, I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, though I fully recognize why many choose to be and fully respect it.

I'm also of the opinion that God didn't institute animal sacrifice, rather God takes an already extant common cultic practice and uses it to help redirect and change the focus. As a Christian I believe the ultimate point of doing that is to point toward the greater reality of Christ's own Self-Offering of Himself in His Passion.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SANTOSO]

Yes, Christian redemption theology is more advanced and doesn’t require animal sacrifice, which is great.

I was alluding exactly to Hebrews 10:1 .

To me, even a shadow isn’t good in the aspect of harming animals for your own ritualistic cleanliness… It might have been a great physiological tool to remove guilt 3 millennia ago, but… today in the 21st century we can be a little smarter than that.

Beloved one, many have not yet perceived this. This is what we have heard:

“For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,

how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Under the old order,
the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, for the purifying of the flesh.

But under new order,
The blood of Christ, not only for the purifying for the flesh but much more, for cleansing our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Beloved one, don’t set your mind on the old order but set your mind on new order, and believe what Christ has shed blood for us. There is no longer any need for animal sacrifices. If you continue to dwell on the old order, your mind has not been renewed and whose conscience have not been cleansed.

Beloved one, let us not pursue intellectual edification, that will not bring us close to God.
For many years, I was far from the presence of the Lord because I had read the Bible for my intellectual edification, that I might have something boast,that I was arrogant, foolish and ignorant of the grace of God. And I have repented.

Beloved one, I speak to you, that you may be built up for godly edification.

Beloved one, the knowledge of the Lord is not for our own intellectual edification. Intellectual edification is of the world is not of God.

Consider what apostle Peter have said:

“Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

If we have the knowledge of God of our Jesus our Lord, it is that we may multiply grace and peace to others, that they may also be reconciled to God through Christ Jesus, that we may abide in the love of Christ that we serve one another, and be bonded in the peace of the Spirit.

May God’s grace and peace be multiplied to you. To God the Father be glory and thanksgiving through Christ. Amen

 

[James_Lai]

Beloved one, many have not yet perceived this. This is what we have heard:

“For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,

how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Under the old order,
the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, for the purifying of the flesh.

But under new order,
The blood of Christ, not only for the purifying for the flesh but much more, for cleansing our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Beloved one, don’t set your mind on the old order but set your mind on new order, and believe what Christ has shed blood for us. There is no longer any need for animal sacrifices. If you continue to dwell on the old order, your mind has not been renewed and whose conscience have not been cleansed.

Beloved one, let us not pursue intellectual edification, that will not bring us close to God.
For many years, I was far from the presence of the Lord because I had read the Bible for my intellectual edification, that I might have something boast,that I was arrogant, foolish and ignorant of the grace of God. And I have repented.

Beloved one, I speak to you, that you may be built up for godly edification.

Beloved one, the knowledge of the Lord is not for our own intellectual edification. Intellectual edification is of the world is not of God.

Consider what apostle Peter have said:

“Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

If we have the knowledge of God of our Jesus our Lord, it is that we may multiply grace and peace to others, that they may also be reconciled to God through Christ Jesus, that we may abide in the love of Christ that we serve one another, and be bonded in the peace of the Spirit.

May God’s grace and peace be multiplied to you. To God the Father be glory and thanksgiving through Christ. Amen

Killing of an animal as a ritual is very bad, even if it only remains as a shadow.

 

[James_Lai]

I'm not a big fan of it. But I also recognize that it's not my culture or religion, so my feelings are just going to be my own subjective feelings. Also, I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, though I fully recognize why many choose to be and fully respect it.

I'm also of the opinion that God didn't institute animal sacrifice, rather God takes an already extant common cultic practice and uses it to help redirect and change the focus. As a Christian I believe the ultimate point of doing that is to point toward the greater reality of Christ's own Self-Offering of Himself in His Passion.

-CryptoLutheran

So you think the commandments in the Torah aren’t of God?

 

[SANTOSO]

Killing of an animal as a ritual is very bad, even if it only remains as a shadow.

Beloved one,I consider that you should consider this, that we should concern ourselves with we have heard:

“For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:20-21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Beloved one, we should concern ourselves, whether we are living in the glorious liberty as children of God, that the creation itself also, including animals may be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

Beloved one— without us, living in the glorious liberty as children of God— animals will not be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

Beloved one, let us be in the glorious liberty as children of God, that we may also receive the promise, that the creation itself including animals be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

To God the Father be glory and thanksgiving through Christ. Amen.

 

[Tolworth John]

It’s barbaric. I understand in the historic, cultural and theological context. I have enormous difficulty to accept or condone this cruel practice and any beliefs that offshoot from it.

Then you have to consider God to be cruel and barbaric, as he initiated the animal sacrifice system in Judaism.

 

[disciple Clint]

I understand. If Super Bully says, bully the least of these lesser brothers, you comply.

Is it what God is and wants us to be?

God gave the life of His own Son to save us, does that sound like a "Super Bully"?

 

[James_Lai]

Then you have to consider God to be cruel and barbaric, as he initiated the animal sacrifice system in Judaism.

If we believe so