Twisted Scripture (False Doctrines)

[THIS]

Because we can't make ourselves worthy. Our works are as filthy rags. We can, however walk worthily, which is another way of saying becoming sanctified. The act of cooperating with the Holy Spirit so that we become conformed to the image of the Son.

It is never ever wrong in any way to obey God. God does not tell us our righteous acts are as filthy rags when we do what He says.
God was speaking to the Jews WHO WOULD NOT STOP SINNING. For instance, in the old law, the Jews would sin, then they had to give a sin offering as a righteous act, they had to give sin offerings just to worship God. God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins.

 

[Hammster]

[FONT=&quot]You are arguing against Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How many times does the truth have to be explained to you?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have already told you that the Jews whom Jesus said that to were HARDENED, they were hardened so that they could not hear Jesus then repent and be saved---because Jesus came FIRST for those who waited for the Messiah, those who already had faith in God BEFORE Jesus came.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God put the hardened and cut off Jews with the disobedient Gentiles, so He can have mercy on them all. Jesus came first for those who already belonged to God by faith, and when he was crucified, then all can come to him and be saved.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]God saves all through faith, faith with obedience.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even the Jews can be grafted back in, if they do not persist in unbelief.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]See Romans 11:7; Romans 11:20; Romans 11:32; Romans 11:23.[/FONT]

And once again, you ignore the text in front of you and go elsewhere to try to unprove it.

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:25-28 NASB)

Why did they not believe? They weren't His sheep. Those who hear do so because they are His sheep. You are hung up on warning God's favor.

 

[THIS]

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[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]And once again, you ignore the text in front of you and go elsewhere to try to unprove it.

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[FONT=&quot]What an ignorant argument.[/FONT]


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[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:25-28 NASB)

Why did they not believe? They weren't His sheep. Those who hear do so because they are His sheep. You are hung up on warning God's favor. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I explained to you that God hardened them because Jesus came first for those who already had faith in God! I explain God’s Truth to you and you reject it and scold me for it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If God did NOT harden them---then they would have heard Jesus and they would have repented and they would have been saved! [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Read this scripture:[/FONT]

Mark 4:12
so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"




Did you read that scripture?




Now, are you going to admit you have no understanding?
They could have BECAME SHEEP, but Jesus came FIRST for those who had already belonged to God by faith.

 

[Hammster]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What an ignorant argument.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]I explained to you that God hardened them because Jesus came first for those who already had faith in God! I explain God’s Truth to you and you reject it and scold me for it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If God did NOT harden them---then they would have heard Jesus and they would have repented and they would have been saved! [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Read this scripture:[/FONT]

Mark 4:12
so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"




Did you read that scripture?




Now, are you going to admit you have no understanding?
They could have BECAME SHEEP, but Jesus came FIRST for those who had already belonged to God by faith.

Once again, nobody becomes a sheep. That is nowhere found in scripture.

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:25-28 NASB)

Sheep hear Him. Everyone else does not.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All can become sheep. Anyone can become a sheep.

No. All are sheep. It's just that some are His, as He Himself noted. Some were "not of His sheep", and there were "other sheep". It's all in Jn 10.

The point is that Jesus would die for the sheep. If He had said He would lay down his life for His sheep, then the Calvinists would have an argument.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul was speaking about himself and the person he was BEFORE Jesus saved him.

Paul says even though I WAS once a blasphemer and persecutor and a violent man.

He was speaking in the PRESENT TENSE when he wrote that.

See 1 Timothy 1:13.

Paul saw himself as a saint in Christ, not a sinner in Christ.

He was a saved sinner by grace. That was his point.

Paying attention to the verb tenses helps a lot in understanding what was written.

 

[FreeGrace2]

A good shepherd tends to all of his sheep. What you've described is a poor shepherd. You need to reevaluate your position.

He does "tend to all of HIS sheep". He died for the sheep, and tends to those that are His. I've never suggested otherwise. The problem for RT is that He didn't say He would die for His sheep.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because we can't make ourselves worthy. Our works are as filthy rags. We can, however walk worthily, which is another way of saying becoming sanctified. The act of cooperating with the Holy Spirit so that we become conformed to the image of the Son.

So, we become sanctified by cooperating with the Holy Spirit.

So, how is cooperating with the Holy Spirit not part of how we make ourselves worthy?

Paul's words are crystal clear. We are to act worthy of our calling.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is never ever wrong in any way to obey God. God does not tell us our righteous acts are as filthy rags when we do what He says.
God was speaking to the Jews WHO WOULD NOT STOP SINNING.

Just a question for you: have you stopped sinning?

 

[Hammster]

He does "tend to all of HIS sheep". He died for the sheep, and tends to those that are His. I've never suggested otherwise. The problem for RT is that He didn't say He would die for His sheep.

He didn't have to. There are sheep, and everyone else. So yes, He died for the sheep. He's a good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep, and not for anyone else. And a good shepherd would not lose any sheep. To suggest that Christ could even possibly lose a sheep is bordering on heresy.

 

[FreeGrace2]

He didn't have to. There are sheep, and everyone else.

He specifically noted that He would die for THE sheep, while identifying that there were HIS sheep, and OTHER sheep of HIS, and those what WEREN'T of His sheep. So, yes, He WOULD have had to say that He was dying ONLY for His sheep, if that were the case. But it WASN'T the case.

So yes, He died for the sheep. He's a good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep, and not for anyone else.

In the analogy of using sheep, He certainly did die for all the sheep, just as Johnb the baptizer acknowledged Him as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and the Samaritans who also knowledged that He was the Savior of the world.

And a good shepherd would not lose any sheep. To suggest that Christ could even possibly lose a sheep is bordering on heresy.

Actually, in keeping with what Jesus actually said, to "lose sheep" would mean to NOT die for some of them. Which is exactly what Calvinism believes. That He didn't die for some (many) of humankind.

But, nice try.

 

[Hammster]

He specifically noted that He would die for THE sheep, while identifying that there were HIS sheep, and OTHER sheep of HIS, and those what WEREN'T of His sheep. So, yes, He WOULD have had to say that He was dying ONLY for His sheep, if that were the case. But it WASN'T the case.

Nowhere does He say that there are sheep that aren't His. So the sheep that He died for are His. But not everyone is a sheep.

In the analogy of using sheep, He certainly did die for all the sheep, just as Johnb the baptizer acknowledged Him as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and the Samaritans who also knowledged that He was the Savior of the world.

I don't know what your point is here, but I agree that He died for all sheep.

Actually, in keeping with what Jesus actually said, to "lose sheep" would mean to NOT die for some of them. Which is exactly what Calvinism believes. That He didn't die for some (many) of humankind.

He died for all sheep. Everywhere sheep are mentioned in scripture, they are His people. You won't find sheep being referred to as anyone but His. Your assumption, unsubstantiated, is that all people are sheep.

 

[stan1953]

I just went through every verse on blood and also on sprinkle.

Sprinkle and blood is mentioned many many times both in OT of the blood of animals and priests and alter and people and NT regarding His sprinkled sprinkling blood.
BibleGateway - Quick search: sprinkle
BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: sprinkling
So if is theologically very very sound and godly word to say sprinkle blood about His blood and forgiveness of sins.

I could find not a single mention of cover and blood. Cover sins, but not covered in blood, no where does it say people are covered with blood. See if you can find that in scripture. Songs say 'covered by the blood' but theologically sprinkled is the word used.

There is one vs in Rev 19 where Jesus Robe is dipped in blood.

I am not referring to the OT which you well know. The sacrificial procedures in the OT have nothing to do with what Jesus did. Feel free to show me one person in the NT or today that is actually sprinkled with the Blood of Jesus.
Sadly you revert to semantics instead of dealing with the issue, that Jesus died, shed ALL His blood for the remission of sins. That blood washes us free from sin. When God looks at us He sees the blood of Christ, not a few drops, but a total covering.

 

[stan1953]

That's exactly what we do with garbage. We set it aside. The context DOES lend itself to being set aside.

Maybe today, but it eventually go to the dump and is burned, just as those who lose their salvation will.

The salt wasn't "lost". It's savoryness was lost. It's effectiveness was lost, not the salt.

So it's no longer salt as believers are no longer believers. Again you are using semantics instead of seeing what Jesus was teaching.

No! Jesus never said anything about loss of salvation. The parable was about being fruitful, not about staying saved.

The parable was about losing your salvation. Many people then and now don't understand this parable and the same reason Jesus gave the holds true today.

There is NOTHING to warrant that view. Not ANY verse says that salvation can be lost.

and yet I did so. So are you saying I'm wrong and you're right?

How about some of that "preponderance" of Scripture that you speak of.
This is why believers must be faithful and persevere.
2 John 1:8
Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

What did John accomplish here? It was salvation. Why warn someone about not losing it if they can? With all the scriptures you present, you fail to understand the warning being given. You don't warn people about losing salvation if it can't be lost. If the reward for salvation is eternal life and we risk losing that reward then obviously we lose salvation. Anyone that is NOT bound to a dogmatic POV will see that.

 

[stan1953]

He died for all sheep. Everywhere sheep are mentioned in scripture, they are His people. You won't find sheep being referred to as anyone but His. Your assumption, unsubstantiated, is that all people are sheep.

So who exactly are LOST sheep? Are they all His now?

 

[Hammster]

So who exactly are LOST sheep? Are they all His now?

Of course. I believe Jesus to actually be a Good Shepherd.

 

[stan1953]

Of course. I believe Jesus to actually be a Good Shepherd.

So there are NO lost sheep, everyone is saved?
The issue is not Jesus being a GOOD Shepherd.

 

[Hammster]

So there are NO lost sheep, everyone is saved?
The issue is not Jesus being a GOOD Shepherd.

No, not everyone is saved. I'm not a universalist.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nowhere does He say that there are sheep that aren't His. So the sheep that He died for are His. But not everyone is a sheep.
I don't know what your point is here, but I agree that He died for all sheep.

Nope. He told that crowd they weren't "His sheep". He didn't say anything about any humans not being sheep. The context was about sheep and entering the sheep gate through Him, as He was the gate.

He died for all sheep.

Which is my point and refutes Calvinism. He died for all sheep, yet not all sheep are His, as He clearly notes:

John 10:26
“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

Nothing here about anyone not being a sheep, as you opined.

Everywhere sheep are mentioned in scripture, they are His people. You won't find sheep being referred to as anyone but His. Your assumption, unsubstantiated, is that all people are sheep.

You've just been refuted by Jn 10:26.

If you were correct, Jesus would have told that crowd, "you are not sheep".

But He correctly noted that they were "not of My sheep".

Correct understanding of Scripture requires correct reading of Scripture.

 

[Hammster]

Nope. He told that crowd they weren't "His sheep". He didn't say anything about any humans not being sheep. The context was about sheep and entering the sheep gate through Him, as He was the gate.


Which is my point and refutes Calvinism. He died for all sheep, yet not all sheep are His, as He clearly notes:

John 10:26
“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

Nothing here about anyone not being a sheep, as you opined.


You've just been refuted by Jn 10:26.

If you were correct, Jesus would have told that crowd, "you are not sheep".

But He correctly noted that they were "not of My sheep".

Correct understanding of Scripture requires correct reading of Scripture.

I'll say it once again. Nowhere in scripture are you going to find sheep being referred to as anything but God's people. So your semantical argument falls way short.

ETA And He did refer to them as something other than sheep. Wolves, thieves, robbers.