Twisted Scripture (False Doctrines)

[stan1953]

Actually sprinkled is used here.
1 Peter 1
New King James Version (NKJV)
Sprinkled may have understanding hearkening back to something the priests did with the offerings to the Lord. Can look that up. I think they sprinkled the people.

Yes I agree as far as this scripture is concerned. But we are still covered by His blood as far as our sins are concerned and as far as God sees us as Paul shows in Rom 4:7. Isaiah 1:18 prophesied what Jesus' sacrifice would do.

 

[stan1953]

If anyone here who is a professing Christian who claims they are still the worst of sinners, then you are in danger.

So you don't get the message Jesus was conveying in Luke 18:9-14?

 

[sdowney717]

Yes I agree as far as this scripture is concerned. But we are still covered by His blood as far as our sins are concerned and as far as God sees us as Paul shows in Rom 4:7. Isaiah 1:18 prophesied what Jesus' sacrifice would do.

I just went through every verse on blood and also on sprinkle.

Sprinkle and blood is mentioned many many times both in OT of the blood of animals and priests and alter and people and NT regarding His sprinkled sprinkling blood.
BibleGateway - Quick search: sprinkle
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword...htype=all&language1=en&spanbegin=1&spanend=73
So if is theologically very very sound and godly word to say sprinkle blood about His blood and forgiveness of sins.

I could find not a single mention of cover and blood. Cover sins, but not covered in blood, no where does it say people are covered with blood. See if you can find that in scripture. Songs say 'covered by the blood' but theologically sprinkled is the word used.

There is one vs in Rev 19 where Jesus Robe is dipped in blood.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because the context of this scripture does NOT lend itself to being set aside, but to be discarded as garbage. Useless, of no value.

That's exactly what we do with garbage. We set it aside. The context DOES lend itself to being set aside. And there are NO verses that indicate one's salvation can be lost.

The loss of salvation is the loss of being the salt itself. Jesus says LOST.

The salt wasn't "lost". It's savoryness was lost. It's effectiveness was lost, not the salt.

Well as I have made it very clear, I do NOT label myself as an Arminian.
The verse I provided in just one of them. Luke 8:13 is another parable that shows loss of salvation.

No! Jesus never said anything about loss of salvation. The parable was about being fruitful, not about staying saved.

As in anything from scripture, the preponderance contributes to the understanding, as in the case of salvation being lost, there is enough to warrant it's justification.

There is NOTHING to warrant that view. Not ANY verse says that salvation can be lost.

We must be FAITHFULL and persevere, as Paul teaches in Rom 11:20-22;

Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
​

The message is clear...we have to continually exercise our free will, to stay in God's will, by obeying and submitting to Him.

How about some of that "preponderance" of Scripture that you speak of.

This is why believers must be faithful and persevere.

2 John 1:8
Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
Colossians 3:24
knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

None of these indicate that we work (persevere) for salvation. We do it for reward.

In addition, consider these verses:

John 14:16
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
John 14:17
that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Now, given these verses of the promise of the Holy Spirit and His sealing of the believer, consider these verses:

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2 Corinthians 5:5
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

What has God pledged by His Spirit being put in believers? We are sealed for the day of redemption. That is a guarantee.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The POINT is that we must endure. If we don't we receive NOTHING, including Eternal Life.

There aren't ANY verses that say that.

They both say IF we endure. If we don't, we are then effectively denying Jesus, which means He will deny us in the end.

Please consider the context of what will be denied. If we endure, we WILL reign with Christ. That's NOT salvation, but reigning with Him in eternity.

But, the flip side is this: if we don't endure, we will be denied reigning with Him. That's what will be denied. Not our salvation.

I have exegeted the scripture, and when people ask to show scripture that PLAINLY speaks, IMO that is diversionary.

Calvinists say the same thing when I point out that there are no verses that SAY that Christ died ONLY for the elect, or that He didn't die for everyone.

The scripture does NOT plainly speak of many thing, like the Triune nature of God, or His Omniscience, but we know they are His qualities by what it DOES say.

Yep. Heard the same thing from Calvinists regarding the scope of Christ's death. The point is that there ARE clear verses on eternal security, just as there are on Christ's death for everyone.

We know, by all the warnings about being faithful in scripture, that failing to do so results in our losing Eternal Life.

No, I've already given you verses that clearly indicate loss of reward, including the privilege of reigning with Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You clearly left out the group chosen by God the Father that He gave to Christ to save. It might not have the word "elect" in the passage, but the verses clearly demonstrate a group of people selected by God.

No, I didn't. Go back and look at category #4.

Why do you ignore all the other categories?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Walking worthy and making yourself worthy are two different things.

Please explain the difference.

 

[FreeGrace2]

[FONT=&quot]That is your false opinion. You have not supported any of your false doctrines with scripture.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Not even for salvation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The scriptures are plain and clear.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We have to keep the faith.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Look at yourself and what you said, you are trying to twist away what God says.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You are putting down obeying Jesus. It is good to obey Jesus.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You just discounted all the scriptures I gave about obeying Jesus.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]From the scriptures, I see that the gift, the reward, the inheritance, the treasure, the crown, the promise…it is all eternal life in the kingdom of God.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Don’t you care what the scriptures say?[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]List the scripture properly.[/FONT]

Before I put you on 'ignore', please consider these verses and explain to me what they mean.

2 John 1:8
Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,
Colossians 3:24
knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

John 14:16
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
John 14:17
that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Now, given these verses of the promise of the Holy Spirit and His sealing of the believer, consider these verses:

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2 Corinthians 5:5
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

What has God pledged by His Spirit being put in believers? We are sealed for the day of redemption. That is a guarantee.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If anyone here who is a professing Christian who claims they are still the worst of sinners, then you are in danger.

Paul said this:

1 Timothy 1:15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Was Paul in danger??

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you believe that Jesus is the Good Shepherd?

It would seem, from the responses, that Jesus is the Good Shepherd ONLY for the good sheep. Even though Jesus said He would lay down His life for the sheep. He didn't specify which sheep.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
And Acts 13:48 doesn't say anything about God ordaining anyone. First, the meaning of tasso is to "line up, or arrange", basically. And both the middle and passive voice is the SAME form for the tense used here, we must look to the context to determine which the author meant. And v.44 clearly indicates that the Gentiles lined themselves up or arranged themselves to hear Paul's preaching.

Again, an eisegetical reading of the text.

How does addressing Greek grammar and meanings equate to "eisegesis"? I suggest a review of that word so you'll know better next time you use it.

I actually exegeted the passage, using Greek word meaning and grammar rules.

Instead of criticism of my post, could you explain WHY you think it was eisegesis and why I'm wrong? That means you need to deal with the verb tenses and forms for both middle and passive voice for 'tasso', and WHY v.44 doesn't support the middle voice there. Since God isn't mentioned, you have no support for the passive voice. But, please explain yourself.

Just dismissing my post as "eisegegis" is a cheap shot. Please provide solid evidence for your view and why my view is wrong. Thanks.

 

[THIS]

Do you believe that Jesus is the Good Shepherd?

Did you see all those scriptures that I posted? Tell me, why are you acting as if they are not there?

 

[THIS]

It would seem, from the responses, that Jesus is the Good Shepherd ONLY for the good sheep. Even though Jesus said He would lay down His life for the sheep. He didn't specify which sheep.

All can become sheep. Anyone can become a sheep.

 

[THIS]

Paul said this:

1 Timothy 1:15
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

1 Timothy 1:16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Was Paul in danger??

Paul was speaking about himself and the person he was BEFORE Jesus saved him.

Paul says even though I WAS once a blasphemer and persecutor and a violent man.

See 1 Timothy 1:13.

Paul saw himself as a saint in Christ, not a sinner in Christ.

 

[Hammster]

It would seem, from the responses, that Jesus is the Good Shepherd ONLY for the good sheep. Even though Jesus said He would lay down His life for the sheep. He didn't specify which sheep.

A good shepherd tends to all of his sheep. What you've described is a poor shepherd. You need to reevaluate your position.

 

[Hammster]

All can become sheep. Anyone can become a sheep.

Nobody becomes a sheep. You either are or you aren't.

 

[THIS]

Nobody becomes a sheep. You either are or you aren't.

No one is an actual animal called a sheep.

Anyone can become as a sheep.

Anyone can, and must humble him or herself, and repent.


We are grown adults, but we must become as little children, or we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.



In Hosea, the Israelites are like heifers. They are told to repent, and then they would be as lambs.



Hosea 4:16 The Israelites are stubborn, like a stubborn heifer. How then can the LORD pasture them like lambs in a meadow?

Hosea 14:2 Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

 

[Hammster]

No one is an actual animal called a sheep.

Anyone can become as a sheep.

Anyone can, and must humble him or herself, and repent.


We are grown adults, but we must become as little children, or we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.



In Hosea, the Israelites are like heifers. They are told to repent, and then they would be as lambs.



Hosea 4:16 The Israelites are stubborn, like a stubborn heifer. How then can the LORD pasture them like lambs in a meadow?

Hosea 14:2 Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:25-28 NASB)

You are arguing against Jesus.

 

[A New Dawn]

Please explain the difference.

Because we can't make ourselves worthy. Our works are as filthy rags. We can, however walk worthily, which is another way of saying becoming sanctified. The act of cooperating with the Holy Spirit so that we become conformed to the image of the Son.

 

[THIS]

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:25-28 NASB)

You are arguing against Jesus.

[FONT=&quot]You are arguing against Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How many times does the truth have to be explained to you?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have already told you that the Jews whom Jesus said that to were HARDENED, they were hardened so that they could not hear Jesus then repent and be saved---because Jesus came FIRST for those who waited for the Messiah, those who already had faith in God BEFORE Jesus came.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God put the hardened and cut off Jews with the disobedient Gentiles, so He can have mercy on them all. Jesus came first for those who already belonged to God by faith, and when he was crucified, then all can come to him and be saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God saves all through faith, faith with obedience.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even the Jews can be grafted back in, if they do not persist in unbelief.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]See Romans 11:7; Romans 11:20; Romans 11:32; Romans 11:23.[/FONT]