TV Evangelists (TBN etc)

[YorkieGal]

Benny Hinn, Kenny Copleland, Paul and Jan Crouch, Ernest Angley - I was raised with all of these in my Grandma's & parents house and thought nothing of it until I learned that my Grandma and my parents sent money to these televangelists.

I have nothing against people making a living but these people seemed obscene to me in their wealth, artificial and exploitative. My Grandma made flour and water in Crisco for dinner but she sent strangers money so they could purchase a Rolex and preach about good money strategy, tithings to church etc?

Am I looking at this the wrong way? I have become bitter and resentful regarding what I view to be heretic charlatans, even though I can't change anything and my Grandma passed away many years ago now, because I view these people and TBN as false.

It doesn't help that Pat Robertson was so ingrained within politics, just as the Pope is, which I think is a conflict of interest since what is God's is God's a politics is of men, IMO.

What are your views?

 

[Richard T]

You are right that there is abuse in Christian circles. Many ministers are no different from Eli's sons (I Samuel 2) Overcharging and being disobedient in carrying out their duties, (some are immoral too) It is interesting there that you find the Jews held them in contempt. It was God that did something though. Other than not giving ourselves and warning others there is little to be done. Given that some of the major ministries have fruit, there is no standard as to how much a minister might make. To me it is not the salary but only when they make claims for money that are at least in part untrue. As to your relatives giving, if they gave in faith, God honors that, they are innocent parties trying to do the right thing. If you think that God is not involved and does not see this go back to I Samuel again. "no old man left among you" (Covid?) and God will replace them with those that have his heart and mind. This replacement is ongoing. The only problem is that false prophets and ministers can operate on the fringes, so some are sure to stay. The church needs better teaching and opportunities to see true ministers. (The revival coming will make this clearer)

It breaks my heart to see simple needs that are very difficult in developing nations. I recently saw a church that was flooding so it took months to raise it's floor by adding concrete and setting new tile. All work was done by church members, and the entire cost was maybe $3,000. meanwhile I saw a USA church that replaced its air conditioning for over $80,000 I have a vid of a small girl putting rocks under her plastic chair to make it level as for a time while the church was waiting on money; there was just a gravel/dirt floor. Before I get worked up though I try to not think of money given in God's name to someone rich means that someone poor will have to suffer. God is a multiplier, there is money for all. I do think Western churches as a whole could help more. In part many are just never are aware of the needs out there or how to give to those situations. Thus, I would lose the bitterness and give that to God. Your relatives were righteous, they are surely blessed.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I believe you need the whole church experience. The Bible says we are to worship God on the first day of the week All you can do online is hear the sermons. Additionally, according to one study I can't cite, people who go to church every week live seven years longer than those who never do because of the social aspect. If watching sermons online is all you can do, consider that better than nothing, but you need to find a physical church if possible.

 

[YorkieGal]

I believe you need the whole church experience. The Bible says we are to worship God on the first day of the week All you can do online is hear the sermons. Additionally, according to one study I can't cite, people who go to church every week live seven years longer than those who never do because of the social aspect. If watching sermons online is all you can do, consider that better than nothing, but you need to find a physical church if possible.

Hi, thanks for your input. Not sure how this applies to me or the topic but thank you, nonetheless!

 

[YorkieGal]

You are right that there is abuse in Christian circles. Many ministers are no different from Eli's sons (I Samuel 2) Overcharging and being disobedient in carrying out their duties, (some are immoral too) It is interesting there that you find the Jews held them in contempt. It was God that did something though. Other than not giving ourselves and warning others there is little to be done. Given that some of the major ministries have fruit, there is no standard as to how much a minister might make. To me it is not the salary but only when they make claims for money that are at least in part untrue. As to your relatives giving, if they gave in faith, God honors that, they are innocent parties trying to do the right thing. If you think that God is not involved and does not see this go back to I Samuel again. "no old man left among you" (Covid?) and God will replace them with those that have his heart and mind. This replacement is ongoing. The only problem is that false prophets and ministers can operate on the fringes, so some are sure to stay. The church needs better teaching and opportunities to see true ministers. (The revival coming will make this clearer)

It breaks my heart to see simple needs that are very difficult in developing nations. I recently saw a church that was flooding so it took months to raise it's floor by adding concrete and setting new tile. All work was done by church members, and the entire cost was maybe $3,000. meanwhile I saw a USA church that replaced its air conditioning for over $80,000 I have a vid of a small girl putting rocks under her plastic chair to make it level as for a time while the church was waiting on money; there was just a gravel/dirt floor. Before I get worked up though I try to not think of money given in God's name to someone rich means that someone poor will have to suffer. God is a multiplier, there is money for all. I do think Western churches as a whole could help more. In part many are just never are aware of the needs out there or how to give to those situations. Thus, I would lose the bitterness and give that to God. Your relatives were righteous, they are surely blessed.

Yes, I believe my parents and Grandma gave with love and good intentions towards Christ. They will get their heavenly reward for this, I'm sure.

Thanks for the examples of other churches versus churches in the US which are often corporate entities.

I will aim to not hold bitterness on behalf of my relatives who do not hold the same. Makes sense, thank you.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

Most of those ministries had..humble & genuine beginnings..
- with the vision & commitment.
----
After they get..the recognition/status..
- the focus changes..money, power..etc.

 

[rocknanchor]

I would like to suggest caution when discussing the area of God’s power and whether these things be His or not. The power of God CAN go the distance, remember,

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues (Mark 16, 17).​

He can deal in piercing severity, or ample tenderness. The word tells of His meekness. But those upset at the notion of some of His expressions of that New Testament power still in effect are likely caught in doubt. I present to you what they likely said of the early Church, the ancient:

'Those Pentecostals'

On God and politics, one member, ‘retired firefighter’ recently asked in this forum,

“does God get involved in Politics ?”​

The Bible, God’s word tells us,

The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Romans 13:1)​

The confusion rest on the fact of what people witness for themselves, what spiritually bankrupt man has turned that authority into. What they fail to realize is God has not left the scene.

“, ,whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. (Romans 13:2)​

And since they feel God has left the scene, they tend to apply the leavening logic, at little leavening spoils the whole lump. Again, a failure to acknowledge what other science He has established in ‘politics’, His individual ‘servant’.

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. (Romans 13:4)​

So, with the current state of political corruption, you could say governing politics is up for grabs. My question to anyone is, is His ability to empower and bless ten righteous political Christian ‘servants’ diminished due to today’s evil tide?

 

[YorkieGal]

I would like to suggest caution when discussing the area of God’s power and whether these things be His or not. The power of God CAN go the distance, remember,

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues (Mark 16, 17).​

He can deal in piercing severity, or ample tenderness. The word tells of His meekness. But those upset at the notion of some of His expressions of that New Testament power still in effect are likely caught in doubt. I present to you what they likely said of the early Church, the ancient:

'Those Pentecostals'

On God and politics, one member, ‘retired firefighter’ recently asked in this forum,

“does God get involved in Politics ?”​

The Bible, God’s word tells us,

The authorities that exist have been established by God. (Romans 13:1)​

The confusion rest on the fact of what people witness for themselves, what spiritually bankrupt man has turned that authority into. What they fail to realize is God has not left the scene.

“, ,whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. (Romans 13:2)​

And since they feel God has left the scene, they tend to apply the leavening logic, at little leavening spoils the whole lump. Again, a failure to acknowledge what other science He has established in ‘politics’, His individual ‘servant’.

For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. (Romans 13:4)​

So, with the current state of political corruption, you could say governing politics is up for grabs. My question to anyone is, is His ability to empower and bless ten righteous political Christian ‘servants’ diminished due to today’s evil tide?

Very interesting points re: authority but I wonder if these statements re: authority are the true words of the Bible or the amended version of the KJV? TBF, I not only rebel against man's authority but actively reject it when it is contrary to scripture. I do not believe that God would punish his people for rejecting demonic 'authority'. Additionally, when this false authority is linked to politics, it only strengthens my view that the two are conflicts of interest especially where it pertains to spiritual growth and walking in the ways of Christ.

The above would open up a whole new can of worms which probably isn't suited to this particular thread but it is something for me to consider and research, thank you.

 

[rocknanchor]

Very interesting points re: authority but I wonder if these statements re: authority are the true words of the Bible or the amended version of the KJV? TBF, I not only rebel against man's authority but actively reject it when it is contrary to scripture. I do not believe that God would punish his people for rejecting demonic 'authority'. Additionally, when this false authority is linked to politics, it only strengthens my view that the two are conflicts of interest especially where it pertains to spiritual growth and walking in the ways of Christ.

The above would open up a whole new can of worms which probably isn't suited to this particular thread but it is something for me to consider and research, thank you.

Sensitivity is a good thing for accurately handling God's word, surely! In light of that, there are other sides to sensitivity to apply as well, God's permanence of the Church and the Apostle's "tradition" they committed to and expected of us to continue in. Sorry if too expansive, all I wished to remark on is if you were a bit apprehensive on some of these things.

God bless!

 

[YorkieGal]

Sensitivity is a good thing for accurately handling God's word, surely! In light of that, there are other sides to sensitivity to apply as well, God's permanence of the Church and the Apostle's "tradition" they committed to and expected of us to continue in. Sorry if too expansive, all I wished to remark on is if you were a bit apprehensive on some of these things.

God bless!

No need for any apology, I appreciate all views and here to learn and discuss so thank you for taking the time to comment and follow up. It does mean a lot, truly!

I have no one else here to discuss with, so really appreciate your help, thank you.

 

[rocknanchor]

It may be of interest to 'Misty Dawn', others of what happened when back then the materialistic 'faith believing/receiving' messages came under fire by one of the greats, Kenneth Hagin.

Source

 

[mourningdove~]

Am I looking at this the wrong way? I have become bitter and resentful regarding what I view to be heretic charlatans, even though I can't change anything and my Grandma passed away many years ago now, because I view these people and TBN as false.

It doesn't help that Pat Robertson was so ingrained within politics, just as the Pope is, which I think is a conflict of interest since what is God's is God's a politics is of men, IMO.

What are your views?

My view is that I hope you will find it in your heart to forgive those persons you have mentioned ...
for what you perceive, perhaps very correctly, that they have done wrongly to your family members and others ...
and let go of the bitterness and resentfulness.

When we are bitter and resentful, it only hurts us, and not those who have offended us, and/or our loved ones.

What someone else here mentioned is true ...
those ministries you have mentioned did not start out badly.

For myself, TBN was a HUGE positive influence in my life, back in the 80's. I heard the salvation message thru their programming.
TBN did use to be a powerful force for good, in its earlier days.
And God can use even those things that are less than perfect, to reach out to a lonely, lost soul and lead them home to Him.

I would not assume that none of your family members were blessed by any of those ministries.
There really is no way for us to know for certain.
And for all we know, they gave their monies to what they believed was a work of God.
Maybe they gave, out of gratitude. We cannot know.
But God sees the true motives behind our actions, and blesses accordingly.

If I have sounded harsh in any way, I am sorry. I do not mean to speak harshly or offend you in any way.
But it really will not help you in any way to be bitter or resentful.
Avoid the false teachers and prophets. Thank God that you are not being deceived by them.
And understand that many things in the past were different than they are now.
I suspect your family members were very sincere in the things they did.
We all just do the best we can, right? And God does the rest ...

 

[Wings like Eagles]

TBN/CBN are networks and has brought directly to me, a lot of really anointed pastors, speakers and Christian news, that I would never have been exposed to without them. Some of their recent airings have been more like selling a product, vitamins or movies etc, but there is still a lot (the majority) of good informative content on as well.

The local church down the road can be just as guilty of mismanaging finances as the large national, international Christian Networks, Ministries, Broadcast , just on a bigger scale.

While we do have to be wise in using what we have been given. If the good Lord puts in my heart to donate/give to a certain ministry, I just trust that he honors and uses what ever was given for his purpose.

For me, I always go back to what Dr. Charles Stanley always said, "obey God and leave all the consequences to him". I don't think I would have ever heard of Dr. Stanley if not for TBN and he has had a huge impact on my life.

 

[YorkieGal]

For transparency and fairness, it was during a TBN broadcast that I remember my mom speaking in tongues. I don't know where the skepticism came in, or why, but I just know it's there to the detriment of being able to fairly acknowledge any benefits of the programming.

It's COMPLICATED.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Long ago, my dad and I built a church in Washington State, I was born again in it. Today it is a three Church, Mega Church. I looked on-line to see how they were doing, sadly under huge scandals, lawsuits etc. But I am still saved, I think

 

[mourningdove~]

For me, I always go back to what Dr. Charles Stanley always said, "obey God and leave all the consequences to him". I don't think I would have ever heard of Dr. Stanley if not for TBN and he has had a huge impact on my life.

Same here ...
Dr. Charles Stanley.
Huge impact on my journey also.
He remained one of the good, solid voices on TBN, throughout their times of change ...

 

[Diamond7]

Benny Hinn, Kenny Copleland, Paul and Jan Crouch, Ernest Angley -

I attended Ernest Angley church for many years. He DID NOT live high on the hog. He had a normal house like everyone else had. He did not have a paycheck and he did not draw a salary. The money he made was from books he sold. Even so he gave away a LOT of books for free to third world nations. He also managed a TV station and managed a buffet restaurant. So his business investment brought money into the church. Also he ran the Bible college. Most presidents of a college make a LOT more money than Angley, plus the TV station and all of his other business interests. So he would draw NO salary from the church or the donation. Never touched a penny of it and did not even manage his own funds. One day they put new windows in his house and he said it was about time. They should have done that 25 years ago.

He was always the first to get there in the morning and the last to leave at night. Could be you can find problems. You could maybe find problems with anyone. But one thing he did was he was accountable for every penny. His program was actually live and I use to attend a lot of them. He gave a short teaching before the program and even prayed for people. After the show one day I was the only one in the studio. He was praying for someone and there was NO audience. He acted exactly the say with no one watching him. I knew that he was not putting on a show.

He actually bought the building from Rex Hubbard, the very first tele evangelist. I use to ride on a small school bus with Hubbard's youngest daughter Elizabeth. I think later on she released a few records. Again people were critical of Hubbard. We use to give Elizabeth a really hard time and she was only 7 years old. It is just a part of it to be persecuted. Hubbard use to have his building open to whoever wanted to use it for free. For years they had the high school graduation there. There use to be a lot of Christian concerts. He believed the building belonged to all Christians to use. When Angley died at 100 the building was given to the members of the church. Also with the Bible college. He never actually had anything in his name so no one could find any fault in him.

I had a dream and I have actually seen his mansion in Heaven and it is HUGE. The sanctuary where he preaches there in Heaven is a lot bigger than the one he had here. Anyone could have their own private area in his Mansion. If they find a room that is not being used they are welcome to use it for themselves. Here on earth the rooms are all community rooms and everyone shares them. They use to have a boot room where I would go to change from my snow boots to regular shoes.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Benny Hinn, Kenny Copleland, Paul and Jan Crouch, Ernest Angley - I was raised with all of these in my Grandma's & parents house and thought nothing of it until I learned that my Grandma and my parents sent money to these televangelists.

I have nothing against people making a living but these people seemed obscene to me in their wealth, artificial and exploitative. My Grandma made flour and water in Crisco for dinner but she sent strangers money so they could purchase a Rolex and preach about good money strategy, tithings to church etc?

Am I looking at this the wrong way? I have become bitter and resentful regarding what I view to be heretic charlatans, even though I can't change anything and my Grandma passed away many years ago now, because I view these people and TBN as false.

It doesn't help that Pat Robertson was so ingrained within politics, just as the Pope is, which I think is a conflict of interest since what is God's is God's a politics is of men, IMO.

What are your views?

Prosperity preachers take a part of God's word only. That leads to a false gospel. I've yet to hear one say that those who want to get rich fall into a snare, for example. On the other hand, I was raised in a home where money was always a problem. My dad was a gambler, not to the point of destitution, but it made it hard to make ends meet. I was reluctant to give. I knew it was wrong to be mean, so I asked God to change me. He did this over a period of many years. I was poor for a long time. Every time I got some money together, something would happen so that it would evaporate. Now my bills are paid, I own my home and I have an excellent car I bought for cash. I learned to give and God has indeed blessed me.

You need to forgive those who you believe to be false. Bitterness and resentment are poison to the soul. You think Copeland cares? You are the only one who suffers. Christians in politics? Good question. For me personally, no. For others, it's between them and God. And I can't believe the obsession with Donald Trump. He's not the messiah. He's not even a particulary good moral example.

 

[Diamond7]

I can't believe the obsession with Donald Trump. He's not the messiah. He's not even a particulary good moral example.

It is kind of pathetic if he is the best we can come up with. Yet we know that Jesus will rule and reign for 1,000 so we look forward to that. But for now we are to have the mind of Christ and do all we can to follow the example Jesus set for us. I can not judge others because I have my own failure to deal with. We need to take the log out of our eye before we judge others for the speck in their eye.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

The political sections are over in the other parts of the forum, good grief.