Trying to accept that God is loving

[.Iona.]

I made a similar thread a while ago, but that went on a bit of a tangent and it would be hard to bring it in a slightly different direction, so thought I would start another.

Christianity has never really come easy to me. I have some Christian background, but not a religious family.

The main reason I do not have a good faith is that I struggle to see the good in God. I have asked this many times before, and often people become quite angry that I even question it - so please don't post any angry responses as I am only trying to understand.

The way I see it, which I know is different to how the majority of Christians see it, is that God is an angry God who will punish anyone who doesn't follow his word. It is like we have the choice to either follow Him or not, but even if we are good in all we do - He will still punish us for not following His word. And, I can't understand where the love comes from here? Because surely if God loved us He wouldn't have a Hell, and he wouldn't allow pain and suffering of innocent people?

I still have a lot of reservations about Christianity, which would probably not fit into this thread, but a part of me is still being called to look into Jesus, so it's difficult for me right now.

It feels as though God doesn't love us because if He did he wouldn't allow/ throw people into Hell. It really confuses me and sometimes make me angry that there is a God who says He loves us, but still lets all this bad stuff happen, and sometimes I feel like I am made to worship Him out of fear more than anything else, which doesn't sound right to me.

Is there any advice that people who have felt like this can offer? Or can help explain how God is loving, despite all the bad etc?

Again, I ask people not to post any angry comments. I am not trying to go against your beliefs but only try and make sense of God and my own faith in Him.

 

[drich0150]

The Standard set forth by the OT examples of an angry God are indeed examples of righteousness or the demands absolute righteousness has for sin and unrighteousness. In other words God's angry actions are what is required of Him to be Righteous. God is a without question or doubt a righteous God.

This is where True Love (not sentimentality or the emotions associated with Love) comes in. He knows because of our nature we can not help but sin. So He made a way for us to obtain forgiveness or atonement for our sins at absolutely no cost to us personally. All we had to do is fully accept this gift.

why? because True righteousness demands it He shed His sons' blood on our behalf, so we could have access to Him. This is indeed a Loving act.

 

[GakuseiDon]

It feels as though God doesn't love us because if He did he wouldn't allow/ throw people into Hell.

But why must we assume that anyone gets thrown into Hell? Would you be disappointed if no-one ends up there? I don't understand why ANYONE would be concerned about this, if they think that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

Personally I don't think there is a Hell. I think it is incompatible with an all-loving God. But if an omniscient and omnibenevolent being judges me to be worthy of Hell, then how can I argue?

It really confuses me and sometimes make me angry that there is a God who says He loves us, but still lets all this bad stuff happen, and sometimes I feel like I am made to worship Him out of fear more than anything else, which doesn't sound right to me.

It isn't right. That God is a tyrant. You shouldn't worship that God.

Is there any advice that people who have felt like this can offer? Or can help explain how God is loving, despite all the bad etc?

I don't think anyone can. That's the Problem of Evil. Plantinga apparently presents a strong case that the existence of evil is not logically incompatible with a loving God (the "Logical PoE"), but no-one is able to resolve the evil in the world around us with a loving God (the "Empirical PoE"). You would need the wisdom of God Himself to do that.

All you can do is have faith that an all-loving God exists, and that there is a reason for the evil in this world; the so-called "Mysterious Ways" response. You might be wrong, but better to worship that kind of God (or no God at all) than a tyrant. And if you decide you worship an all-loving God, then the questions of our immediate needs and our ultimate destination can be safely placed into His hands.

 

[.Iona.]

But why must we assume that anyone gets thrown into Hell? Would you be disappointed if no-one ends up there? I don't understand why ANYONE would be concerned about this, if they think that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.

I wouldn't want anyone to spend eternity burning in hell. That is too extreme a punishment for less than 80yrs 'sin'.

Personally I don't think there is a Hell. I think it is incompatible with an all-loving God. But if an omniscient and omnibenevolent being judges me to be worthy of Hell, then how can I argue?

Me not agreeing with the concept of hell is going to change nothing if indeed hell exists. I know that. I am saying that I cannot see how a loving god would allow a place like hell to exisit, because hell is as far from loving as possible.

I am not saying that people can change going there etc, but that it doesn't fit in with the idea of a loving god.

You would need the wisdom of God Himself to do that.

And, like I said this is my problem. God could change it, so why doesn't he.

All you can do is have faith that an all-loving God exists,

Yeah, that doesn't help me at all.

You might be wrong, but better to worship that kind of God (or no God at all) than a tyrant. And if you decide you worship an all-loving God, then the questions of our immediate needs and our ultimate destination can be safely placed into His hands.

I cannot worship a God who I don't know is good or bad.

 

[GakuseiDon]

Me not agreeing with the concept of hell is going to change nothing if indeed hell exists. I know that. I am saying that I cannot see how a loving god would allow a place like hell to exisit, because hell is as far from loving as possible.

I agree totally. So in my view either there is Hell, or there is a (loving) God. If your definition of God includes omnibenevolence then a being who uses Hell to punish is not God, since a being that is omnipotent, omniscient but not omnibenevolent is by definition not God.

And if my view doesn't match the view of an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent God, then who am I to argue?

I am not saying that people can change going there etc, but that it doesn't fit in with the idea of a loving god.

Then you need to either drop the idea of hell or drop the idea of a loving God. Which idea is stronger for you?

 

[drich0150]

Because surely if God loved us He wouldn't have a Hell, and he wouldn't allow pain and suffering of innocent people?

It feels as though God doesn't love us because if He did he wouldn't allow/ throw people into Hell. It really confuses me and sometimes make me angry that there is a God who says He loves us, but still lets all this bad stuff happen, and sometimes I feel like I am made to worship Him out of fear more than anything else, which doesn't sound right to me.

Is there any advice that people who have felt like this can offer? Or can help explain how God is loving, despite all the bad etc?

Sorry i did not answer this before.

What if for some reason in the description of Hell and Heaven were some how reversed sometime in our past and Heaven was a Fiery pit, but God lived there. and Hell was what we think of as paradise but no God. Would you still want to goto Heaven (the fiery pit?)

Would it be right for a holy and righteous God to drag people into the Fiery pit just because He wants to be with them even if they did not want to go? Then how is it right for Him to drag someone who has spent their life putting distance between themselves and Him, into His presents No matter what that place looks like?

Heaven and Hell are less about a physical place and more about the presents or absents of God. If you want to truly be with God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength then what heaven may look like does not matter. Like wise if you do not want to be with God then being with Him would be Hell no matter what the place looks like.

If this were not true then no Rich kid could ever hate their parents, nor could a rich well cared for wife ever hate her husband, like wise no poor child could ever love their parents nor could a poor wife love her husband. If you want Heaven just because you fear Hell then you do not understand what Heaven and Hell truly are, and why Heaven is indeed paradise and Why Hell is forever torment.. Again it has little to do with what Heaven or Hell actually lookslike and all to do with who and where you are in relation to God.

One does not need the mind of God to see this truth, only the Holy Spirit to help them "see and Hear" what is written in scripture. Christ tells how can obtain a measure of the Spirit in Luke 11:

5 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose you have a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread; 6 a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have no food to offer him.’ 7 And suppose the one inside answers, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can’t get up and give you anything.’ 8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacity[e] he will surely get up and give you as much as you need.
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

We ask through Prayer, We Seek, in the bible, and in places like this and church, we knock by repeating this process till we get what our hearts want.

 

[.Iona.]

Then you need to either drop the idea of hell or drop the idea of a loving God. Which idea is stronger for you?

How, when the Bible clearly states both?

 

[.Iona.]

What if for some reason in the description of Hell and Heaven were some how reversed sometime in our past and Heaven was a Fiery pit, but God lived there. and Hell was what we think of as paradise but no God. Would you still want to goto Heaven (the fiery pit?)

I would question why God would want us to be in hell for doing what he asked.

Then how is it right for Him to drag someone who has spent their life putting distance between themselves and Him, into His presents No matter what that place looks like?

For the me, the distance comes because I do not understand this part of religion. Should I deserve hell just because I do not see the loving side? Because it isn't a matter of not giving someone a big house or five cars - it's someone spending eternity in a fiery torment.

Heaven and Hell are less about a physical place and more about the presents or absents of God. If you want to truly be with God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength then what heaven may look like does not matter. Like wise if you do not want to be with God then being with Him would be Hell no matter what the place looks like.

How would you say the absence of God is? Would be like the Bible states hell to be?

If you want Heaven just because you fear Hell then you do not understand what Heaven and Hell truly are, and why Heaven is indeed paradise and Why Hell is forever torment.. Again it has little to do with what Heaven or Hell actually lookslike and all to do with who and where you are in relation to God.

For me, I sometimes feel that people worship God to avoid hell - without the ide of Heaven, how many people would worship God?

That said, I also hate the idea of worshipping God to get myself into heaven, when I know my family, friends and people who are better than me in so many ways will go to hell. I couldn't do it.

We ask through Prayer, We Seek, in the bible, and in places like this and church, we knock by repeating this process till we get what our hearts want.

I have prayed and seeked answers through the Bible and church and Christians, but I still have been unable to find any ease to my concerns about God.

Many people have said that Hell is not a fiery place of torment, yet the Bible gives a clear statement of what it is.

I know I can't change anything, but I can't see how I can truly love and worship God with all these doubts hanging over me. Also, I don't think I would want to. So it's hard and confusing for me.

 

[aiki]

The way I see it, which I know is different to how the majority of Christians see it, is that God is an angry God who will punish anyone who doesn't follow his word.

Well, God is angry -- at what is evil and sinful. Does God's anger preclude any other kind of quality? Do you think that because God is angry with wickedness that He can be angry only? Does this seem like a reasonable way to approach understanding the Creator?

What should a perfectly holy God do in response to sin? His holiness demands a condemning response to our sin; He cannot be truly holy and respond otherwise.

It is like we have the choice to either follow Him or not, but even if we are good in all we do - He will still punish us for not following His word.

But following God's Word is to do good. Therefore, not to follow His Word is to do what is not good.

The problem with God and you and I is that our very best good is not up to God's standard of holy perfection. As good as we may seem to ourselves, compared to God's holiness we fall miserably short.

And, I can't understand where the love comes from here? Because surely if God loved us He wouldn't have a Hell, and he wouldn't allow pain and suffering of innocent people?

We see God's love in the provision He has made for us to escape the consequences of our inability to be holy as He is holy. God's love for us sent His only Son, Jesus Christ, to pay the penalty for our sin that God's holiness and justice demanded to be paid. And the terrible price Christ paid as our atonement for sin reveals God's staggering depth of love toward us.

I still have a lot of reservations about Christianity, which would probably not fit into this thread, but a part of me is still being called to look into Jesus, so it's difficult for me right now.

Matthew 7:14
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

It feels as though God doesn't love us because if He did he wouldn't allow/ throw people into Hell.

But God has made a way for all people to avoid the judgment of Hell. As the Bible says,

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The gospel reveals to us the wonderful news that God in Christ has made a way to escape the judgment His holiness and justice demand.

It really confuses me and sometimes make me angry that there is a God who says He loves us, but still lets all this bad stuff happen, and sometimes I feel like I am made to worship Him out of fear more than anything else, which doesn't sound right to me.

I think you're right to say you're confused. The picture you seem to have framed in your mind of God is very different than the God revealed to us in the Bible.

Is there any advice that people who have felt like this can offer? Or can help explain how God is loving, despite all the bad etc?

What do you mean by "all the bad"? Are you talking about Hell or something else?

Selah.

 

[GakuseiDon]

Then you need to either drop the idea of hell or drop the idea of a loving God. Which idea is stronger for you?

How, when the Bible clearly states both?

Leaving aside for a moment how Hell is described in the Bible, it brings us back to the very first point I made in this thread: why must we assume that anyone gets thrown into Hell? Other than a parable involving Lazarus and the rich man, and comments made about the fate of the devil, does the Bible specifically name anyone who will suffer for eternity?

"If you drive too fast, you will get a speeding ticket" may be true, but it isn't necessarily true. It doesn't take into account a lenient policeman, or wise judge, or any number of other factors that occur at judgment time. I think God is going to be a pretty decent judge.

So, even if Hell exists, why do you assume anyone at all is going to go to Hell?

 

[drich0150]

I would question why God would want us to be in hell for doing what he asked.

I will assume you mean to say why God would want us to be in Hell for NOT doing as He asks.

I would suggest that Hell is not a place just for punishment. Hell is the only place those who do not want to be with God can go to be separated from Him. This is why it is also referred to as the "void, the pit."

For the me, the distance comes because I do not understand this part of religion. Should I deserve hell just because I do not see the loving side? Because it isn't a matter of not giving someone a big house or five cars - it's someone spending eternity in a fiery torment.

Those who do not want to be with God choose separation. Hell is the only place this can happen. A "Loving" God will not drag you into a plain of existence that your heart has no desire to be in. This life is the proof as to where your heart wants to spend eternity.

How would you say the absence of God is? Would be like the Bible states hell to be?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7474493/
Post no 6

For me, I sometimes feel that people worship God to avoid hell - without the ide of Heaven, how many people would worship God?

Not sure what you are asking.

That said, I also hate the idea of worshiping God to get myself into heaven, when I know my family, friends and people who are better than me in so many ways will go to hell. I couldn't do it.

I honestly believe your only problem is your loyality to your personal perspective.

I have prayed and seeked answers through the Bible and church and Christians, but I still have been unable to find any ease to my concerns about God.

May I suggest not to put a time limit on your efforts. A life spent in the pursuit of the Gifts of the Spirit is a life well spent.

Many people have said that Hell is not a fiery place of torment, yet the Bible gives a clear statement of what it is.

Because Fire is the only thing known to the writers and to the people being written to, that describes the emotional state that is being experiences when one is consumed by darkness of Hell.

I know I can't change anything, but I can't see how I can truly love and worship God with all these doubts hanging over me. Also, I don't think I would want to. So it's hard and confusing for me.

If you do not want the truth, then why do you go through the motions of seeking it?

 

[.Iona.]

So, even if Hell exists, why do you assume anyone at all is going to go to Hell?

Matthew
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Matthew
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother [1] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults [2] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell [3] of fire.

8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.


Sounds to me like people do go to hell according to the Bible.

 

[.Iona.]

I will assume you mean to say why God would want us to be in Hell for NOT doing as He asks.

I meant Heaven, if things were reversed. You said "Would you still want to goto Heaven (the fiery pit?)" - I meant that I would question why God would want us in the fiery pit just to be with him.

Not sure what you are asking.

Do you think people would worship God if there was no mention at all of a heaven?

If he wasn't going to reward or punish anyone, would people still do what he asked?

I honestly believe your only problem is your loyality to your personal perspective.

Like I have said, I am trying to see it from a different perspective, but right now I only have the one I do.

If I could see God the way you do, then I would not still ask how he is loving, I would be able to see it and base my faith on that.

May I suggest not to put a time limit on your efforts. A life spent in the pursuit of the Gifts of the Spirit is a life well spent.

And, what if I die before finding the answers? Hell seems a little unfair.

Because Fire is the only thing known to the writers and to the people being written to, that describes the emotional state that is being experiences when one is consumed by darkness of Hell.

Or it could be that it was meant to be taken literally.

If you do not want the truth, then why do you go through the motions of seeking it?

I am not saying that I don't want to truth. that is why I am here. But, if it turns out that my family will go to hell, when they are good people, albeit not believers in Jesus, then I do not think I could leave them and focus on getting myself into Heaven.

That has nothing to do with not wanting to find out the truth, just that my actions might not be what you would do with the truth.

 

[GakuseiDon]

Matthew
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Matthew
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother [1] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults [2] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell [3] of fire.

8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

Sounds to me like people do go to hell according to the Bible.

Yes, but they are not in Hell now. Currently the population of Hell is zero, correct?

So, like in my previous example of the lenient policeman and the wise judge: at judgment time, any chance that a loving God might forgive those people, in your opinion?

 

[.Iona.]

Yes, but they are not in Hell now. Currently the population of Hell is zero, correct?

So, like in my previous example of the lenient policeman and the wise judge: at judgment time, any chance that a loving God might forgive those people, in your opinion?

How is that correct?!

Where does it say that? When did eternal not mean eternal?

 

[GakuseiDon]

How is that correct?!

Where does it say that? When did eternal not mean eternal?

I'm not saying eternal punishment isn't eternal punishment. I'm saying that God might well forgive rather than punish in the first place.

As I said: No-one is in Hell right now, according to most Christian traditions. They are sleeping, waiting for the Last Judgment. It might be that a loving God will forgive everyone rather than throw a single person into Hell. Can you rule that out as a possibility? That doesn't negate the passages in the Bible; it is that we don't know how a loving God will judge.

Is it possible that God will not throw a single soul into Hell? That a loving God will forgive when it comes to judgment time?

 

[Joveia]

With regard to hell, there are other passages in the Bible that paint a somewhat different story:

2 Thes 1:9 "They will pay the penalty by being destroyed forever, by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power."

(How are people punished in hell according to the above verse?)

2 Tim 4:8b: "And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing."

Rom 10:13: "for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.""

(Who gets to go to heaven?)

I think the Bible might use metaphors of fire and darkness to describe the awfulness of the choice not to be with God forever. The reality is just as bad, but hard to describe literally. After all, many people would willingly live forever separated from God, so describing hell literally will not convey how bad it really is.

Proverbs 14:27: "The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death".

 

[daniel82]

I made a similar thread a while ago, but that went on a bit of a tangent and it would be hard to bring it in a slightly different direction, so thought I would start another.

Christianity has never really come easy to me. I have some Christian background, but not a religious family.

The main reason I do not have a good faith is that I struggle to see the good in God. I have asked this many times before, and often people become quite angry that I even question it - so please don't post any angry responses as I am only trying to understand.

The way I see it, which I know is different to how the majority of Christians see it, is that God is an angry God who will punish anyone who doesn't follow his word. It is like we have the choice to either follow Him or not, but even if we are good in all we do - He will still punish us for not following His word. And, I can't understand where the love comes from here? Because surely if God loved us He wouldn't have a Hell, and he wouldn't allow pain and suffering of innocent people?

I still have a lot of reservations about Christianity, which would probably not fit into this thread, but a part of me is still being called to look into Jesus, so it's difficult for me right now.

It feels as though God doesn't love us because if He did he wouldn't allow/ throw people into Hell. It really confuses me and sometimes make me angry that there is a God who says He loves us, but still lets all this bad stuff happen, and sometimes I feel like I am made to worship Him out of fear more than anything else, which doesn't sound right to me.

Is there any advice that people who have felt like this can offer? Or can help explain how God is loving, despite all the bad etc?

Again, I ask people not to post any angry comments. I am not trying to go against your beliefs but only try and make sense of God and my own faith in Him.

My sister don't be angry, don't feel sad, the devil is just trying to seperate you from God to take you away from the greatest Gift that you can have. think of it like this. All the things that God commands us to do will make our lives so much easier and peaceful. God doesn't hate us, However he does discipline us. but i'd rather him discipline me than someone who is unforgiving. And remember none of us are innocent none of us. I know it seems like bad people are getting blessed all the time but who are those blessings comming from. Not God. we don't realize just how blessed we are sometimes and maybe you don't wanna here, we should be happy for what we have, then look at it this way in Matthew Jesus says God the father will take care of us right. he takes care of the birds and animals why not us his most precious creation. The devil will always try to twist stuff just like he did with eve in the garden all he changed was one word "Not" he said thought shalt not surely die and she ate of the fruit. I could tell you so so so much more it would take pages lol but, just remember everyday we wake up and everything works is a blessing. we don't know everyone's dark secrets so we don't know what God is chastening them for. everything we go through makes us stronger, more patient, humble, all the things we need to stay strong and to help others stay strong just like i went through this i will do my best to make sure you get through this. God saved my life showed me the truth proved himself to me when he didn't have to i'll teach and preach his word till i can't anymore.amen and praise the lord

if you have any questions or just wanna talk message me

 

[Walter Kovacs]

The way I see it, which I know is different to how the majority of Christians see it, is that God is an angry God who will punish anyone who doesn't follow his word. It is like we have the choice to either follow Him or not, but even if we are good in all we do - He will still punish us for not following His word. And, I can't understand where the love comes from here? Because surely if God loved us He wouldn't have a Hell, and he wouldn't allow pain and suffering of innocent people?

You need to listen to other Christians. God isn't an angry taskmaster. There is an ultimate purpose in ALL suffering, even if it isn't immediately visible or comprehensible to us.

It feels as though God doesn't love us because if He did he wouldn't allow/ throw people into Hell.

Well, when that's where people want to go, that's where they get go.

"There will be two types of people on judgement day. Those who said to God, your will be done, and those to whom God says, your will be done."
- C.S. Lewis

Also, I wouldn't get too hung up on hell being some fiery pit. Lots of folks don't affirm that.

“Christ is the judge; and yet, from another point of view, it is we who pronounce judgment upon ourselves. If anyone is in hell, it is not because God has imprisoned him there, but because that is where he himself has chosen to be. The lost in hell are self-condemned, self-enslaved; it has rightly been said that the doors of hell are locked from the inside. How can a God of love accept that even a single one of the creatures whom he has made should remain for ever in hell? There is a mystery here which, from our standpoint in this present life, we cannot hope to fathom. The best we can do is to hold in balance two truths, contrasting but not contradictory. First, God has given free will to man, and so to all eternity it lies in man’s power to reject God. Secondly, love signifies compassion, involvement, and so, if there are any who remain eternally in hell, in some sense God is also there with them. It is written in the Psalms, ‘If I go down to hell, thou art there also’ (139:7); and St. Isaac the Syrian says, ‘It is wrong to imagine that sinners in hell are cut off from the love of God.’ Divine love is everywhere, and rejects no one. But we on our side are free to reject divine love; we cannot however, do so without inflicting pain on ourselves, and the more final our rejection the more final our suffering”

- (Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way, pp. 135-136).


“While he saw hell as a necessary concomitant of the justice of God, Thomas Aquinas did not divorce God’s justice from his love. The divine love is related to hell for the purpose of mitigating the sufferings of the damned. In his view the purpose of hell is not exclusively retributive. Moreover, it serves as a deterrent to evil and as a basis for moral order in the universe…”

“Man is in hell not because God is absent but because he is present, and therefore man is constantly reminded of his guilt and infamy. Hell is exclusion from communion with God, but not exclusion from the presence of God (we interpret 2 Thess 1:9 as referring to an exclusion from man’s side but not from God’s side. Man shuts himself off from the salvation of the Lord and from the glory of his might, but he cannot escape from this glory (Phil 2:9-11). Cf. Revelation 14:10 which speaks of sinners in hell being tormented ‘in the presence of the Lamb…’”

“The metaphor that most nearly describes hell is not a concentration camp presided over by the devil, but a sanitorium for sick souls who are ministered to by Jesus Christ… His light still shines even in the darkness of man’s hell… We can rest assured that those in hell are in the hands of a God who is both righteous and merciful, and we can trust that his mercy as well as his justice will be manifest among them, though this does not mean final universal salvation.”

“Hell is not outside of the compass of God’s mercy nor the sphere of his kingdom, and in this sense we call it the last refuge of the sinner… only rejection of the grace of God keeps us in hell… the only sin that is unforgivable is the sin against the Holy Spirit, rejecting and refusing the offer of divine grace (cf. Mt 12:31, 32; Mk 3:28, 29; Heb 12:25).”

“Hell will not be seen as an evil, but as the place where those who reject Christ are still cared for by Christ –and not simply as Lord and Judge but as Savior and Healer… we should not forget that God placed upon Cain a sign for his protection, even though he was condemned to wander in a far country… God will punish our transgressions, but he will not remove from us his steadfast love or be false to his faithfulness (Ps 89:31-34)” (“Heaven and Hell” in Bloesch, Donald, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 2, pp. 211-234)

 

[solarwave]

The way I see it, which I know is different to how the majority of Christians see it, is that God is an angry God who will punish anyone who doesn't follow his word. It is like we have the choice to either follow Him or not, but even if we are good in all we do - He will still punish us for not following His word. And, I can't understand where the love comes from here? Because surely if God loved us He wouldn't have a Hell, and he wouldn't allow pain and suffering of innocent people?

What do you mean by following His word? In my opinion there is a difference between being Christian and thinking the Bible is infallible. You can be Christian and except that the Bible has errors, that the OT God does seem angry and that hell doesn't necessarily exist in the way some people understand it.

So if by punishment you mean hell, I think that some people who are not Christians will go to heaven. I even have hope that the majority of people will eventually come to God. There is more to following God than understanding in the mind, understanding in the heart matters too, probably even more so. So a Hindu who loves goodness and turns his heart towards love is probably more of a Christian than some 'Christians'.

An example of the love of God could be when in John 8:2-11 the religious people wanted to stone to death a woman who had commited adultery, according to the law of the OT. Jesus stopped them by saying that whoever was without sin could throw the first stone. Of course no one could do this and the womans life was saved. Jesus put love above the letter of the law because it is the spirit of the law which matters.

Is there any advice that people who have felt like this can offer? Or can help explain how God is loving, despite all the bad etc?

Well I consider the fact that 'God is Love' to be the most important thing and to consider all other things in light of this. So if something is unloving then God probably hasn't done it. Of course it is much more complicated than that, but I think it helps to consider Gods love more real than hell or evil.