• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Trying to accept that God is loving

Jan 28, 2011
422
57
Karlstad
✟15,952.00
Faith
Christian
Politics
US-Green
I believe in this way! Imagne that the whole humanity found itself in the middle of the ocean - and was near to die! Suddenly a man comes in a bout and he said to the people: "jump in the boat all of you who want to live!" Some people jumped in the bout and got saved. The other people is still in the water. In this picture - Jesus is like the bout. When we are in Christ - we are Savied!

For God so loved the world that he gave hes only begotten Son. God loves his Son, and loves us because we are in his Son that he loves. But he also loves us - because he gave his Son so we may be saved!
 
  • Like
Reactions: EyesOfKohl
Upvote 0

daniel82

Newbie
Nov 25, 2010
256
12
✟22,927.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
What do you mean by following His word? In my opinion there is a difference between being Christian and thinking the Bible is infallible. You can be Christian and except that the Bible has errors, that the OT God does seem angry and that hell doesn't necessarily exist in the way some people understand it.

So if by punishment you mean hell, I think that some people who are not Christians will go to heaven. I even have hope that the majority of people will eventually come to God. There is more to following God than understanding in the mind, understanding in the heart matters too, probably even more so. So a Hindu who loves goodness and turns his heart towards love is probably more of a Christian than some 'Christians'.

An example of the love of God could be when in John 8:2-11 the religious people wanted to stone to death a woman who had commited adultery, according to the law of the OT. Jesus stopped them by saying that whoever was without sin could throw the first stone. Of course no one could do this and the womans life was saved. Jesus put love above the letter of the law because it is the spirit of the law which matters.




Well I consider the fact that 'God is Love' to be the most important thing and to consider all other things in light of this. So if something is unloving then God probably hasn't done it. Of course it is much more complicated than that, but I think it helps to consider Gods love more real than hell or evil.
the word of God is infallible
 
Upvote 0

daniel82

Newbie
Nov 25, 2010
256
12
✟22,927.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I believe in God the Father and Jesus the word of God and the Son and the Saviour and the Holy Spirit and in the bible in Matthew when peter said let us build three tabernacles and God the Father said this is my son in whom i am well pleased hear ye HIM and not man like moses and elias who was on the mt with Jesus then that ment listen to Jesus the word of God.
Matt 17:5
John1:1-18
amen
 
Upvote 0

Exial

Active Member
Dec 7, 2009
312
16
United Kingdom
✟555.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
I was unaware that God sent people to hell.

Well, I don't even believe your god or hell exists. My questions are purely hypothetical.

But if Christian theology is correct, then there is a hell and I will certainly be going.

(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).
(3) Hell is conscious torment.

I stand by my point, no loving god would condemn his creation to torture.
 
Upvote 0

Walter Kovacs

Justice is coming, no matter what we do.
Jan 22, 2011
1,922
91
Florida
Visit site
✟17,624.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
I stand by my point, no loving god would condemn his creation to torture.

Correct. I wouldn't follow a God who arbitrarily sent people to hell for not accepting a proposition. Also, I would be wary of interpreting apocalyptic/prophetic passages in terms of absolute, solid, theological doctrine, as they aren't meant to be read that way.


"While he saw hell as a necessary concomitant of the justice of God, Thomas Aquinas did not divorce God’s justice from his love. The divine love is related to hell for the purpose of mitigating the sufferings of the damned. In his view the purpose of hell is not exclusively retributive. Moreover, it serves as a deterrent to evil and as a basis for moral order in the universe…”

“Man is in hell not because God is absent but because he is present, and therefore man is constantly reminded of his guilt and infamy. Hell is exclusion from communion with God, but not exclusion from the presence of God (we interpret 2 Thess 1:9 as referring to an exclusion from man’s side but not from God’s side. Man shuts himself off from the salvation of the Lord and from the glory of his might, but he cannot escape from this glory (Phil 2:9-11). Cf. Revelation 14:10 which speaks of sinners in hell being tormented ‘in the presence of the Lamb…’”

“The metaphor that most nearly describes hell is not a concentration camp presided over by the devil, but a sanitorium for sick souls who are ministered to by Jesus Christ… His light still shines even in the darkness of man’s hell… We can rest assured that those in hell are in the hands of a God who is both righteous and merciful, and we can trust that his mercy as well as his justice will be manifest among them, though this does not mean final universal salvation.”

“Hell is not outside of the compass of God’s mercy nor the sphere of his kingdom, and in this sense we call it the last refuge of the sinner… only rejection of the grace of God keeps us in hell… the only sin that is unforgivable is the sin against the Holy Spirit, rejecting and refusing the offer of divine grace (cf. Mt 12:31, 32; Mk 3:28, 29; Heb 12:25).”

“Hell will not be seen as an evil, but as the place where those who reject Christ are still cared for by Christ –and not simply as Lord and Judge but as Savior and Healer… we should not forget that God placed upon Cain a sign for his protection, even though he was condemned to wander in a far country… God will punish our transgressions, but he will not remove from us his steadfast love or be false to his faithfulness (Ps 89:31-34)” (“Heaven and Hell” in Bloesch, Donald, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 2, pp. 211-234)

“…sin consists in man’s choosing to go his own way rather than follow God. Throughout life, man says to God in effect, ‘Leave me alone.’ Hell, the absence of God, [and the absence of love among the people one is with] is God’s simply giving man at last what he has always asked for. It is not God, but man’s own choice that sends man to hell.” (Erickson, Millard, Christian Theology, p. 432).

“Christ is the judge; and yet, from another point of view, it is we who pronounce judgment upon ourselves. If anyone is in hell, it is not because God has imprisoned him there, but because that is where he himself has chosen to be. The lost in hell are self-condemned, self-enslaved; it has rightly been said that the doors of hell are locked from the inside. How can a God of love accept that even a single one of the creatures whom he has made should remain for ever in hell? There is a mystery here which, from our standpoint in this present life, we cannot hope to fathom. The best we can do is to hold in balance two truths, contrasting but not contradictory. First, God has given free will to man, and so to all eternity it lies in man’s power to reject God. Secondly, love signifies compassion, involvement, and so, if there are any who remain eternally in hell, in some sense God is also there with them. It is written in the Psalms, ‘If I go down to hell, thou art there also’ (139:7); and St. Isaac the Syrian says, ‘It is wrong to imagine that sinners in hell are cut off from the love of God.’ Divine love is everywhere, and rejects no one. But we on our side are free to reject divine love; we cannot however, do so without inflicting pain on ourselves, and the more final our rejection the more final our suffering” (Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way, pp. 135-136).

I recommend you take some time and chew on that, rather than just dismissing it as propaganda. There's more to Christianity than punishment and being saved from it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Exial

Active Member
Dec 7, 2009
312
16
United Kingdom
✟555.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Correct. I wouldn't follow a God who arbitrarily sent people to hell for not accepting a proposition. Also, I would be wary of interpreting apocalyptic/prophetic passages in terms of absolute, solid, theological doctrine, as they aren't meant to be read that way.


"While he saw hell...

All you have demonstrated to me is that your bible contradicts itself.
 
Upvote 0

Faulty

bind on pick up
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2005
9,467
1,019
✟87,489.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well, I don't even believe your god or hell exists. My questions are purely hypothetical.

But if Christian theology is correct, then there is a hell and I will certainly be going.

(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).
(3) Hell is conscious torment.

I stand by my point, no loving god would condemn his creation to torture.

That's sort of like saying no loving judge would condemn a man to death.

If a man was caught in the act of brutally murdering your entire family and he went before the judge and the judge stated to him, "I am a loving judge, therefore I'm letting you go free", would you consider that judge to be just or corrupt?

Scripture states that such a judge is an abomination, "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord." Prov 17:15


Like it or not, we are that man standing accused before the judge.
“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” Romans 3:10-12
Like it or not, we are born guilty with a date before the judge for sentencing.
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" Romans 5:12
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." John 3:36
So if we are guilty, and the Judge is just, then what hope do we have? Surely, just trying our best and being a "good person will be enough, right? Would a judge be impressed if the murderer standing before him was a volunteer for the PTA? Nope!
"For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20
This is quite a delima, a just judge, a guilty man, and a pending verdict.

What hope does the guilty have? Well, they have a judge who is both loving and just, who condemned the man to death, but then gave himself over to the executioner on that's man's behalf, to both satisfy his justice and to show mercy towards the guilty man.

Moving on to the very next few verses after we learn our works will not help us at all, we see in Romand 3:21-26:
"But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
When one states that God would never condemn anyone to hell, it is the same absurdity as stating that a just judge would never condemn a guilty man to death.

He is loving, but He is also just. Rejecting His offer to be forgiven and justified does not lessen his love one bit.
 
Upvote 0

Exial

Active Member
Dec 7, 2009
312
16
United Kingdom
✟555.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Your analogy is flawed.

That's sort of like saying no loving judge would condemn a man to death.

This man has not been determined to have committed a crime ^

If a man was caught in the act of brutally murdering your entire family and he went before the judge and the judge stated to him, "I am a loving judge, therefore I'm letting you go free", would you consider that judge to be just or corrupt?

This man is a murderer ^

When one states that God would never condemn anyone to hell, it is the same absurdity as stating that a just judge would never condemn a guilty man to death.

He is loving, but He is also just. Rejecting His offer to be forgiven and justified does not lessen his love one bit.

It is not a offer. According to your theology, I, like every other human was born into sin. Therefore, I have no option but to take his offer of redemption since he has already created me primed to go to hell, meaning I have to actively take action to prevent this outcome. If I lived my life with no knowledge of god and his offer of forgiveness (for example on a remote island) then upon death I would still go to hell, regardless of how I lived my life. That is not indicative of a loving creator.
 
Upvote 0