Trying to accept that God is loving

[.Iona.]

lol. love= feelings.

Also, it's interesting. To my knowledge, there's no explicit Bible verse that says, "A PERSON WILL BE TORTURED FOREVER." We get the idea of a negative afterlife, but plenty of folks don't believe it. Lots believe annhilationism, which also makes sense.

I think the part where it says 'eternal' makes you think of it that way.

Considering you don't seem to believe the Bible why do you have any reason to think this? Some of us here have said that it isn't necessary to believe in this kind of God and be Christian. You don't seem to have proven us wrong about this, so is there any reason you still think God is like this other than having it ingrained into your mind?

Because, this is the way that the people I have spoken to about God have represented him. Looking at the Bible, that is the way that God appears.

There are Christians who say that they do not believe there is a hell - yet the Bible talks of hell and the way it is portrayed doesn't sound nice at all.

It seems that people say you have to go with what the Bible says, then they also say/ or others will say that they don't believe everything in the Bible. I have always been taught to take what you read - so when the Bible says all different sorts of people go to hell - what evidence ids there to the contrary.

It's not about believing in the Bible, more about reading it and going on what it says.

 

[Walter Kovacs]

I think the part where it says 'eternal' makes you think of it that way.

Like I said, the idea of a negative eternal afterlife is there. Whether or not it's torment or torture or what is a little less apparent.

 

[.Iona.]

Like I said, the idea of a negative eternal afterlife is there. Whether or not it's torment or torture or what is a little less apparent.

So how do you interpret the verses that say 'burned in the fire', and 'They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth' and where the 'fire never goes out'?

 

[Walter Kovacs]

I said how in an above post, but I'll paste it here:


You have to understand the various genres in the Bible; writing isn't broken up into either NON-FICTION-TRUE or FICTION-FALSE. A vast amount of the imagery in the Bible is not meant as literal theological treatises. The lake of fire is used almost exclusively in Revelation, which is a prophetic/apocalyptic book that relies almost exclusively on imagery ie the Dragon, the Horsemen, etc. but I don't believe they are necessarily to be taken absolutely literally; the other times are in the prophetic/apocalpytic sense by Christ. The fact is that no one can say for absolute certain that hell is this or hell is that; it's open for interpretation. It exists...that's about all we have as absolute solid Biblical data.

We can take certain parts such as Romans pretty literally (but even then theres a lot of imagrey) as oppose to say, Genesis or Revelation. Remember, these folks were Jews; the Hebrew people used imagery in order to convey a message to be understood in the heart and mind, not just a set of data for academic dissection.


In case you didn't read my other post, here it is.


"While he saw hell as a necessary concomitant of the justice of God, Thomas Aquinas did not divorce God’s justice from his love. The divine love is related to hell for the purpose of mitigating the sufferings of the damned. In his view the purpose of hell is not exclusively retributive. Moreover, it serves as a deterrent to evil and as a basis for moral order in the universe…”

“Man is in hell not because God is absent but because he is present, and therefore man is constantly reminded of his guilt and infamy. Hell is exclusion from communion with God, but not exclusion from the presence of God (we interpret 2 Thess 1:9 as referring to an exclusion from man’s side but not from God’s side. Man shuts himself off from the salvation of the Lord and from the glory of his might, but he cannot escape from this glory (Phil 2:9-11). Cf. Revelation 14:10 which speaks of sinners in hell being tormented ‘in the presence of the Lamb…’”

“The metaphor that most nearly describes hell is not a concentration camp presided over by the devil, but a sanitorium for sick souls who are ministered to by Jesus Christ… His light still shines even in the darkness of man’s hell… We can rest assured that those in hell are in the hands of a God who is both righteous and merciful, and we can trust that his mercy as well as his justice will be manifest among them, though this does not mean final universal salvation.”

“Hell is not outside of the compass of God’s mercy nor the sphere of his kingdom, and in this sense we call it the last refuge of the sinner… only rejection of the grace of God keeps us in hell… the only sin that is unforgivable is the sin against the Holy Spirit, rejecting and refusing the offer of divine grace (cf. Mt 12:31, 32; Mk 3:28, 29; Heb 12:25).”

“Hell will not be seen as an evil, but as the place where those who reject Christ are still cared for by Christ –and not simply as Lord and Judge but as Savior and Healer… we should not forget that God placed upon Cain a sign for his protection, even though he was condemned to wander in a far country… God will punish our transgressions, but he will not remove from us his steadfast love or be false to his faithfulness (Ps 89:31-34)” (“Heaven and Hell” in Bloesch, Donald, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 2, pp. 211-234)

“…sin consists in man’s choosing to go his own way rather than follow God. Throughout life, man says to God in effect, ‘Leave me alone.’ Hell, the absence of God, [and the absence of love among the people one is with] is God’s simply giving man at last what he has always asked for. It is not God, but man’s own choice that sends man to hell.” (Erickson, Millard, Christian Theology, p. 432).

“Christ is the judge; and yet, from another point of view, it is we who pronounce judgment upon ourselves. If anyone is in hell, it is not because God has imprisoned him there, but because that is where he himself has chosen to be. The lost in hell are self-condemned, self-enslaved; it has rightly been said that the doors of hell are locked from the inside. How can a God of love accept that even a single one of the creatures whom he has made should remain for ever in hell? There is a mystery here which, from our standpoint in this present life, we cannot hope to fathom. The best we can do is to hold in balance two truths, contrasting but not contradictory. First, God has given free will to man, and so to all eternity it lies in man’s power to reject God. Secondly, love signifies compassion, involvement, and so, if there are any who remain eternally in hell, in some sense God is also there with them. It is written in the Psalms, ‘If I go down to hell, thou art there also’ (139:7); and St. Isaac the Syrian says, ‘It is wrong to imagine that sinners in hell are cut off from the love of God.’ Divine love is everywhere, and rejects no one. But we on our side are free to reject divine love; we cannot however, do so without inflicting pain on ourselves, and the more final our rejection the more final our suffering” (Kallistos Ware, The Orthodox Way, pp. 135-136).

 

[EyesOfKohl]

Christians are not the only ones who claim to have all the answers, virtually every religion does. If there is no evidence supporting any religion, how do you know which is the right one? Guess?

Fair enough question. How do you know which is the right one?

I challenge you to find Prophecy that has been fulfilled to the extent of the Bible. About 25% of the Bible is Prophecy (8,352 verses). No other book can produce the same!

'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.' - Revelation 22:13

Only Elaha (God) can predict such things, as His knowledge is not limited, but infinite.

There are 456 Prophecies concerning Yeshua (Jesus) alone in the Bible.

I'm going to show you a few of the Prophecies, prophecised in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New Testament. The following is taken from Walid's book - Dear Muslim, let me tell you why I believed All credit to the author Walid.

First Prediction: (His birth in Bethlehem)
Old Testament Prediction: "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be ruler in Israel, whose going forth have been from of old from everlasting." (Micah 5:2).
New Testament Fulfillment: "Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold wise men from the east came to Jerusalem" (Matthew 2:1).

Second Prediction: (He would be preceded by a messenger)
Old Testament Prediction: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: `Prepare the way of the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God;'" (Isaiah 40:3).
New Testament Fulfillment: "In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!;" (Matthew 3:1,2).

Third Prediction: (He would enter Jerusalem on a colt)
Old Testament Prediction: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9).
New Testament Fulfillment: "Then they brought him to Jesus. And they threw their own garments on the colt, and they set Jesus on him. And as he went, they spread their clothes on the road" (Luke 19:35-36).

Fourth Prediction: (He would be betrayed by a friend)
Old Testament Prediction: "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, Has lifted up his heel against me" (Psalm 41:9).
New Testament Fulfillment: "And while He was still speaking, behold Judas, one of the twelve, with great multitude with swords and clubs, came from the chief priests and elders of the people. Now His betrayer had given them a sign saying, "Whomever I kiss, He is the One; seize Him; " (Matthew 26:47,48).

Fifth Prediction: (His hand and feet pierced)
Old Testament Prediction: "For dogs have surrounded Me; The assembly of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet." (Psalm 22:16).
New Testament Fulfillment: "And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left." (Luke 23:33).

Sixth Prediction: (He would be wounded by His enemies)
Old Testament Prediction: "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities" (Isaiah 53:5).
New Testament Fulfillment: "Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered [Him] to be crucified" (Matthew 27:26).

Seventh Prediction: (His betrayal for 30 pieces of silver)
Old Testament Prediction: "Then I said to them, `If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.' So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver'" (Zechariah 11:12).
New Testament Fulfillment: "What are you willing to give me if I deliver Him to you? And they counted out to him thirty pieces of silver" (Matthew 26:15).
Note: This was predicted 500 years in advance when silver was not used for money but gold.

If you want to see Yeshua further in the OT, read this thread http://www.christianforums.com/t7531690/

Now, will you prove me wrong?

God is only one way from what I see. He is saying that he will only accept us if we do what he says.

Yet, we have to love him regardless of anything else.

I also say to you, read the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) in the 4 gospels, and tell me where you find any bad teachings. I bet you can't find anything bad, but you'll only find good.

If you can find only good, then why do you go against the teachings of Elaha?

If you go against them, you follow your own desires, thus you follow Shaitan because you'll be following sin.

There is a choice, and the choice is yours. Follow good or evil.

 

[Exial]

Fair enough question. How do you know which is the right one?

I challenge you to find Prophecy that has been fulfilled to the extent of the Bible. About 25% of the Bible is Prophecy (8,352 verses). No other book can produce the same!

'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.' - Revelation 22:13
[snip]

Now, will you prove me wrong?

I actually don't have to prove you wrong because you haven't proven yourself right. You cannot use the bible to prove the validity of the bible, that is called circular reasoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

And even if your argument was valid I'm afraid your still not the only religion to claim that their holy book has hundreds of fulfilled prophecies..

FULFILLED PROPHECIES OF THE HOLY QURAN

FINGER PRINTS

"Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing" (41:21)​

The finger prints system at borders, criminal investigation cells and immigration centres prove the fulfillment of this Quranic prophecy.

POLLUTION

"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)​

One of the interpretations of the above verse of the Holy Quran is the environmental pollution, caused by human being. And that is spread both in land and sea due to our own inventions, i.e., fumes from chimneys of factories, chemical and nuclear waste, huge traffic in the cities, noise and creation of ozone hole are manifest testimonies of the fulfillment of this prophecy.

ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL

And after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)​

Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran. GENETIC ENGINEERING

"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)​

The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.

ROADS IN MOUNTAINS

"And when the mountains are made to move." (81:4)​

Centuries before the invention of dynamite, the holy Quran prophesied the blowing up and moving of the mountains.

NEW TRANSPORT SYSTEMS

"And when the she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned." (81:5) "And He has created horses and mules and asses that you may ride them, and as a source of beauty. And He will create what you do not yet know." (16:9)
​

As we know people, specially those living in deserts, have now abandoned camels and other animals for travelling. But this prophecy of invention and emergence of new transport systems is on-going as we witness new and faster modes of transportation emerging all the time. ZOO

"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." (81:6)​

Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy. OCCEANS LINKED

"And when the rivers are made to flow into each other." (81:7) "He has made the two bodies of water flow. They will one day meet. Between them there is a barrier; they cannot encroach one upon the other." (55:20,21)
"And He it is Who shall merge the two seas together. This palatable and sweet, that saltish and bitter. And between them He has (presently) placed a barrier and a massive partition." (25:54) ​

This phenomenal prophecy is an excellent proof of truthfulness of Quran. It was beyond imagination of any one living 1400 years ago to even think of linking of oceans which we see today in Panama and Suez canals.

MODERN COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS

"And when various people are brought together." (81:8)​

Fast transport systems, telephone, satellite systems and internet have brought so close to each other proving the truthfulness of the holy Quran. WOMEN’S RIGHTS

"And when the female-infant buried alive is questioned about – For what crime was she killed." (81-9,10)​

Modern-day women rights and liberation associations may be brain-child of freedom-loving and egalitarian humanist / feminist people but foretold by Quran centuries ago.

BOOKS PUBLISHED AND SPREAD

"And when books are spread abroad." (81:11)​

The invention of printing press and publication houses and consequently spread of books every where is one of the marvellous prophecies of the Quran made in the dark ages of ignorance and illiteracy.

EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL LIFE

"And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever He pleases." (42:30)​

Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction. The presence of extra-terrestrial life has been proved by scientists. The next step is to see them and making a link with them. No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery. AIR

TRAFFIC SYSTEM

"And by the heaven full of tracks" (51:8)​

While prophesying about modern transport systems, Quran also foretold the air-traffic system which is an essential part of aviation. A person living in desert 1400 years ago cannot talk about such advance technologies unless revealed to him by God Almighty.

AIDS

"It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers." (Ibn-e-Majah, Kitab-ul-Fitan)* see footnote​

You need at least a doctor of medicine and an expert of social behaviour at the same time to talk about such behaviours and their fatal consequence. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was neither of them, but a Prophet of God who didn’t copy from the Bible and paste in the Quran and foretell the same fate of perverts of Sodom and Gomorrah for the future perverts, but a unique disease never heard or known by earlier people, AIDS! The medical scientists are unanimous that this disease is never recorded in the annals of history.

So once again we are left with the question, which religion is correct? If anything the predictions of the Qur'an are certainly more impressive but still worthless when trying to prove the validity of the Qur'an.

 

[daniel82]

Fair enough question. How do you know which is the right one?

I challenge you to find Prophecy that has been fulfilled to the extent of the Bible. About 25% of the Bible is Prophecy (8,352 verses). No other book can produce the same!

'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.' - Revelation 22:13

Only Elaha (God) can predict such things, as His knowledge is not limited, but infinite.

There are 456 Prophecies concerning Yeshua (Jesus) alone in the Bible.

I'm going to show you a few of the Prophecies, prophecised in the Old Testament and fulfilled in the New Testament. The following is taken from Walid's book - Dear Muslim, let me tell you why I believed All credit to the author Walid.

First Prediction: (His birth in Bethlehem)
Old Testament Prediction: "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be ruler in Israel, whose going forth have been from of old from everlasting." (Micah 5:2).
New Testament Fulfillment: "Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold wise men from the east came to Jerusalem" (Matthew 2:1).

Second Prediction: (He would be preceded by a messenger)
Old Testament Prediction: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: `Prepare the way of the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God;'" (Isaiah 40:3).
New Testament Fulfillment: "In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!;" (Matthew 3:1,2).

Third Prediction: (He would enter Jerusalem on a colt)
Old Testament Prediction: "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9).
New Testament Fulfillment: "Then they brought him to Jesus. And they threw their own garments on the colt, and they set Jesus on him. And as he went, they spread their clothes on the road" (Luke 19:35-36).

Fourth Prediction: (He would be betrayed by a friend)
Old Testament Prediction: "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, Has lifted up his heel against me" (Psalm 41:9).
New Testament Fulfillment: "And while He was still speaking, behold Judas, one of the twelve, with great multitude with swords and clubs, came from the chief priests and elders of the people. Now His betrayer had given them a sign saying, "Whomever I kiss, He is the One; seize Him; " (Matthew 26:47,48).

Fifth Prediction: (His hand and feet pierced)
Old Testament Prediction: "For dogs have surrounded Me; The assembly of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet." (Psalm 22:16).
New Testament Fulfillment: "And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left." (Luke 23:33).

Sixth Prediction: (He would be wounded by His enemies)
Old Testament Prediction: "But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities" (Isaiah 53:5).
New Testament Fulfillment: "Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered [Him] to be crucified" (Matthew 27:26).

Seventh Prediction: (His betrayal for 30 pieces of silver)
Old Testament Prediction: "Then I said to them, `If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.' So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver'" (Zechariah 11:12).
New Testament Fulfillment: "What are you willing to give me if I deliver Him to you? And they counted out to him thirty pieces of silver" (Matthew 26:15).
Note: This was predicted 500 years in advance when silver was not used for money but gold.

If you want to see Yeshua further in the OT, read this thread http://www.christianforums.com/t7531690/

Now, will you prove me wrong?



I also say to you, read the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) in the 4 gospels, and tell me where you find any bad teachings. I bet you can't find anything bad, but you'll only find good.

If you can find only good, then why do you go against the teachings of Elaha?

If you go against them, you follow your own desires, thus you follow Shaitan because you'll be following sin.

There is a choice, and the choice is yours. Follow good or evil.

Amen my brother amen God bless you and Praise the Lord

 

[daniel82]

I actually don't have to prove you wrong because you haven't proven yourself right. You cannot use the bible to prove the validity of the bible, that is called circular reasoning.
Circular reasoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And even if your argument was valid I'm afraid your still not the only religion to claim that their holy book has hundreds of fulfilled prophecies..

FULFILLED PROPHECIES OF THE HOLY QURAN

FINGER PRINTS

"Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing" (41:21)
​

The finger prints system at borders, criminal investigation cells and immigration centres prove the fulfillment of this Quranic prophecy.

POLLUTION

"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)
​

One of the interpretations of the above verse of the Holy Quran is the environmental pollution, caused by human being. And that is spread both in land and sea due to our own inventions, i.e., fumes from chimneys of factories, chemical and nuclear waste, huge traffic in the cities, noise and creation of ozone hole are manifest testimonies of the fulfillment of this prophecy.

ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL

And after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)
​

Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran. GENETIC ENGINEERING

"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)
​

The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.

ROADS IN MOUNTAINS

"And when the mountains are made to move." (81:4)
​

Centuries before the invention of dynamite, the holy Quran prophesied the blowing up and moving of the mountains.

NEW TRANSPORT SYSTEMS

"And when the she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned." (81:5) "And He has created horses and mules and asses that you may ride them, and as a source of beauty. And He will create what you do not yet know." (16:9)

​

As we know people, specially those living in deserts, have now abandoned camels and other animals for travelling. But this prophecy of invention and emergence of new transport systems is on-going as we witness new and faster modes of transportation emerging all the time. ZOO

"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." (81:6)
​

Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy. OCCEANS LINKED

"And when the rivers are made to flow into each other." (81:7) "He has made the two bodies of water flow. They will one day meet. Between them there is a barrier; they cannot encroach one upon the other." (55:20,21)
"And He it is Who shall merge the two seas together. This palatable and sweet, that saltish and bitter. And between them He has (presently) placed a barrier and a massive partition." (25:54)
​

This phenomenal prophecy is an excellent proof of truthfulness of Quran. It was beyond imagination of any one living 1400 years ago to even think of linking of oceans which we see today in Panama and Suez canals.

MODERN COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS

"And when various people are brought together." (81:8)
​

Fast transport systems, telephone, satellite systems and internet have brought so close to each other proving the truthfulness of the holy Quran. WOMEN’S RIGHTS

"And when the female-infant buried alive is questioned about – For what crime was she killed." (81-9,10)
​

Modern-day women rights and liberation associations may be brain-child of freedom-loving and egalitarian humanist / feminist people but foretold by Quran centuries ago.

BOOKS PUBLISHED AND SPREAD

"And when books are spread abroad." (81:11)
​

The invention of printing press and publication houses and consequently spread of books every where is one of the marvellous prophecies of the Quran made in the dark ages of ignorance and illiteracy.

EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL LIFE

"And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever He pleases." (42:30)
​

Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction. The presence of extra-terrestrial life has been proved by scientists. The next step is to see them and making a link with them. No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery. AIR

TRAFFIC SYSTEM

"And by the heaven full of tracks" (51:8)
​

While prophesying about modern transport systems, Quran also foretold the air-traffic system which is an essential part of aviation. A person living in desert 1400 years ago cannot talk about such advance technologies unless revealed to him by God Almighty.

AIDS

"It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers." (Ibn-e-Majah, Kitab-ul-Fitan)* see footnote
​

You need at least a doctor of medicine and an expert of social behaviour at the same time to talk about such behaviours and their fatal consequence. Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was neither of them, but a Prophet of God who didn’t copy from the Bible and paste in the Quran and foretell the same fate of perverts of Sodom and Gomorrah for the future perverts, but a unique disease never heard or known by earlier people, AIDS! The medical scientists are unanimous that this disease is never recorded in the annals of history.

So once again we are left with the question, which religion is correct? If anything the predictions of the Qur'an are certainly more impressive but still worthless when trying to prove the validity of the Qur'an.

lol none of these prophicies are as specific or in detail as the bible i could tell you right now Years and Years from now the earth will tremble like never before

 

[daniel82]

God is only one way from what I see. He is saying that he will only accept us if we do what he says.

Yet, we have to love him regardless of anything else.

if God was only one way my sister we'd all be dead you don't think he gets angry after he gave us a planet stars food shelter cloths everything LIFE and we refuse to show him love in return after years of loving us even when we were in sin he didn't destroy us he sent his son so that we may recieve eternal life through him you dont think that is love even now as we continue to do wrong taking prayer out of school work life if you say God at work you can get fired now i mean come on we refuse him everyday and the Sun continues to rise and fall and most of us are still breathing when in a blink of an eye we could all just be no more imagine the pain he feels imagine his anger imagine his sorrow The devil tricked man since the begining and who do we always blame when something bad happens in our lives God. how do you think he feels about us im pretty sure he thinks we don't love him either look at the world look at all the different denominations of Churches Jesus only left one body with many members not many bodies with many members God loves us all we need to show it back

 

[Exial]

lol none of these prophicies are as specific or in detail as the bible

Your just point scoring, you have not grasped the concept of circular reasoning. You cannot use the bible to prove the bible, that it is a logical fallacy.

i could tell you right now Years and Years from now the earth will tremble like never before

Your prophecy (like all others) is extremely vague.

The earth will shake like never before? That could be interpreted in many different ways. It could be a very large earthquake or asteroid impact, that are over a long enough period of time are certainties.

If your prophecy contained a why, where, when and how now that would be impressive.

 

[Exial]

if God was only one way my sister we'd all be dead you don't think he gets angry after he gave us a planet stars food shelter cloths everything LIFE

The universe is just for humans? what arrogance, its laughable. You cannot imagine the scale.

It has been calculated that somewhere in the universe, a star (one of trillions) dies every second. In a billion years our planet will be in ruins, its oceans boiled off from our own dying sun. Every 10 million years a asteroid larger than 5km in size slams into the earth. We suffer mass extinctions roughly every 70 million years. 99% of life that has ever existed is extinct. Not to mention natural disasters like earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes and hurricanes. And this will all conclude with the ultimate heat death of our universe, although any trace of humanity will be long gone.

Why is that god has left us on this fragile little planet that can only support life for some of the time, on some of its surface. You have clearly not thought this through. The level of absolute destruction in the universe shows their was no divine hand, and if their was he is either incompetent or ultimately does not care about the human race.

and we refuse to show him love in return after years of loving us even when we were in sin he didn't destroy us he sent his son so that we may recieve eternal life through him you dont think that is love even now as we continue to do wrong taking prayer out of school work life if you say God at work you can get fired now i mean come on we refuse him everyday and the Sun continues to rise and fall and most of us are still breathing when in a blink of an eye we could all just be no more imagine the pain he feels imagine his anger imagine his sorrow The devil tricked man since the begining and who do we always blame when something bad happens in our lives God. how do you think he feels about us im pretty sure he thinks we don't love him either look at the world look at all the different denominations of Churches Jesus only left one body with many members not many bodies with many members God loves us all we need to show it back

He created us sick (in sin)
On pain of eternal punishment he commands us to be well again.
To blame the devil is to blame god. God created him and god has infinite knowledge. The moment he created the devil he would of known exactly what he would inflict on the world. And he did nothing.

 

[solarwave]

Because, this is the way that the people I have spoken to about God have represented him. Looking at the Bible, that is the way that God appears.

And some people you havn't talked to think differently. In the Bible, if you only focus on the New Testament then I think the only problem with the love of God is hell.

There are Christians who say that they do not believe there is a hell - yet the Bible talks of hell and the way it is portrayed doesn't sound nice at all.

The Bible talks about hell as firey and painful, darkness and destruction. There obviously can't be both fire and darkness so one or both must be metaphorical. You also can't have both exist in pain and be destroyed (your soul destroyed) so one or both of them must be metaphors. Hell doesn't sound nice, but we can use our reason to try to understand it rather than just reading it and hoping we understand it right.

It seems that people say you have to go with what the Bible says, then they also say/ or others will say that they don't believe everything in the Bible. I have always been taught to take what you read - so when the Bible says all different sorts of people go to hell - what evidence ids there to the contrary.

It's not about believing in the Bible, more about reading it and going on what it says.

But it was writen in a different culture with a different way of thinking. Also english Bible rely on the translators not being bias and in english we don't have all the words for direct translation. For example there are two or three words in greek which are translated as hell.

So I think there is more to understanding doctrines than just reading the Bible. If it were that simple people would spend years studying theology.

 

[Exial]

Some (I wouldn't) might say that when you sin you deserve hell. This would have to be proven wrong as well. Also some might say that people send themselves to hell, not God.

I would say hell isn't what you think it is if it is real.

Strange how the inspired word of God is interpreted so differently but so many people. Its almost as if it was a creation of man..

I don't think the Bible claims to be infallible. Even if it did it could be wrong. It doesn't mean everything in it is.

Of course the bible claims to be infallible. It is claimed as the word of god, god is infallible therefore the bible is infallible.

If the bible does not claim to be infallible then why even bother to believe it at all? Remeber this is not like a science text book, which contains facts determined by evidence and study. The Bible asserts things without providing evidence.

But you are correct in regards to that it is not infalliable, not matter if it claims to be. Objectively the bible is nothing more than a collection of myths and stories. It contains no more absolute truth than the Quran or the Cat in the Hat.

I don't find it obvious simply from this that its claims are probably wrong. I agree with being sceptical though.

Obviously not sceptical enough.

You are sceptical enough about the Quran not to accept its claims.

But you are not sceptical enough about the Bible as you seem to accept its claims.

 

[elman]

=Exial;56932454]The universe is just for humans? what arrogance, its laughable. You cannot imagine the scale.

It has been calculated that somewhere in the universe, a star (one of trillions) dies every second. In a billion years our planet will be in ruins, its oceans boiled off from our own dying sun. Every 10 million years a asteroid larger than 5km in size slams into the earth. We suffer mass extinctions roughly every 70 million years. 99% of life that has ever existed is extinct. Not to mention natural disasters like earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes and hurricanes. And this will all conclude with the ultimate heat death of our universe, although any trace of humanity will be long gone.

Why is that god has left us on this fragile little planet that can only support life for some of the time, on some of its surface. You have clearly not thought this through. The level of absolute destruction in the universe shows their was no divine hand, and if their was he is either incompetent or ultimately does not care about the human race.

Value is not about the size of a rock. Love has more value than multiple planets with no life on them. The level of destruction in the universe does not show there is no divine hand. I doubt that God ultimate cares about the human race. He loves us individually and deals with us on a one to one basis. His first gift of life is limited. We are all mortal. The limitation does not prove lack of love. We have the opportunity for hope of eternal life.

He created us sick (in sin)
On pain of eternal punishment he commands us to be well again.

I do not believe in original sin. No, God does not create us in sin. God also does not torture us forever. The devel is not real. God is.

butTo blame the devil is to blame god. God created him and god has infinite knowledge. The moment he created the devil he would of known exactly what he would inflict on the world. And he did nothing.

God did not create the devil or evil. Man created evil and continues to do so by being unloving to others.

 

[solarwave]

Strange how the inspired word of God is interpreted so differently but so many people. Its almost as if it was a creation of man..

Well it didn't drop out of the sky.

Of course the bible claims to be infallible. It is claimed as the word of god, god is infallible therefore the bible is infallible.

Do you know of one verse where is claims itself to be infallible?

If the bible does not claim to be infallible then why even bother to believe it at all? Remeber this is not like a science text book, which contains facts determined by evidence and study. The Bible asserts things without providing evidence.

I don't see why the Bible not being infallible makes a difference. Even if the Bible is infallible people have to first believe in God before believing the Bible. I mean people don't come to believe in God because a book told them.

Obviously not sceptical enough.

Maybe, maybe not.

You are sceptical enough about the Quran not to accept its claims.

I don't know enough about it to say how inspired it might be.

But you are not sceptical enough about the Bible as you seem to accept its claims.

Not all its claims.

 

[elman]

=Exial;56933056]Strange how the inspired word of God is interpreted so differently but so many people. Its almost as if it was a creation of man..

The word of God according to the Bible is Jesus

Of course the bible claims to be infallible. It is claimed as the word of god, god is infallible therefore the bible is infallible.

It claims Jesus is the word of God.

If the bible does not claim to be infallible then why even bother to believe it at all?

This is the same argument I see from people who believe the Bible is without error. The answer is because it is the greatest book ever written and contains a lot of divine truth. Why should I not be able to take truth whereever I find It? If a science book has some errors does that mean I must reject what it says where it was right?

Remeber this is not like a science text book, which contains facts determined by evidence and study. The Bible asserts things without providing evidence.

There is no objective evidence proving spiritual matters and God and there is no objective evidence proving there is no God or spiritual reality. This entire area must be searched without objective evidence being present.

But you are correct in regards to that it is not infalliable, not matter if it claims to be. Objectively the bible is nothing more than a collection of myths and stories. It contains no more absolute truth than the Quran or the Cat in the Hat.

What a foolish statment. Even if there is no God and no spiritual reality, the teaching that we should love each other is a good teaching, and to relagate it to a childrens book and say it has no value is to not use the mind God gave you.

But you are not sceptical enough about the Bible as you seem to accept its claims.

I am sceptical of some of its claims, but not all of them.

 

[aiki]

Solarwave:

The Bible talks about hell as firey and painful, darkness and destruction. There obviously can't be both fire and darkness so one or both must be metaphorical.

Stars burn brightly -- in the darkness of space.

You also can't have both exist in pain and be destroyed (your soul destroyed) so one or both of them must be metaphors.

Destruction in the Bible often refers to the loss of well-being, not the loss of being; it means the loss of all good things, not annihilation. Understanding that this is what destruction means makes perfect sense of verses which tell us that one may feel pain and endure destruction in hell. Perhaps if you knew the Bible better, you wouldn't be so quick to resort to metaphor...

Hell doesn't sound nice, but we can use our reason to try to understand it rather than just reading it and hoping we understand it right.

The Bible explains itself; understanding it doesn't require your "reason" as much as you seem to think. If you study the Bible carefully, it will usually tell you exactly what it means. Remember, God's ways are not your ways, nor are His thoughts your thoughts; so trying to understand His Word through the filter of your own style of thinking isn't going to take you very far. Better simply to let the Word of God speak for itself.

Selah.

 

[daniel82]

The universe is just for humans? what arrogance, its laughable. You cannot imagine the scale.

It has been calculated that somewhere in the universe, a star (one of trillions) dies every second. In a billion years our planet will be in ruins, its oceans boiled off from our own dying sun. Every 10 million years a asteroid larger than 5km in size slams into the earth. We suffer mass extinctions roughly every 70 million years. 99% of life that has ever existed is extinct. Not to mention natural disasters like earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes and hurricanes. And this will all conclude with the ultimate heat death of our universe, although any trace of humanity will be long gone.

Why is that god has left us on this fragile little planet that can only support life for some of the time, on some of its surface. You have clearly not thought this through. The level of absolute destruction in the universe shows their was no divine hand, and if their was he is either incompetent or ultimately does not care about the human race.




He created us sick (in sin)
On pain of eternal punishment he commands us to be well again.
To blame the devil is to blame god. God created him and god has infinite knowledge. The moment he created the devil he would of known exactly what he would inflict on the world. And he did nothing.

you know its funny how you can call me arrogant and not believe in God when i know for a fact you haven't seen an alien right also if he created us sick then the devil wouldn't of stayed in the garden he would of let adam and eve mess up on their own. and yes he created the Lucifer the angel who let what he had go to his head and tried to get over on God the same thing your doing and where in the bible does it tell you that God knows what your gonna do before you do it no is programed to do. you have a choice why do you think people tell you to think twice before you do something what and who must be influenced God will so he is all knowing but a choice is still given

 

[daniel82]

Now in my opinion why people have so many missconceptions about Hell you gotta understand the reason why alot of people don't understand God is because God doesn't appeal to the Flesh. the way we think alot of the time is according to the flesh. we only think or relate to what we can feel see smell or hear. you see God appeals to the Mind your soul. it just like when your hooked on drugs you wanna quit because you know its the right thing to do, but your body won't function right you have withdrawl symptoms. when you try not to cheat on your spouse but you give in because you wanna feel. The mind can be strong but you gotta use it because the Flesh is weak. if you think with a fleshly mind you'll fail everytime. but if you use the mind of God that is in you you'll prevail. people will belive in anything but God. they'll believe in Ghost walking through walls and Hauntings, aliens people getting possesed and all there doing is yelling and screaming and ghost comming out at night. lol when did deamons get so scared if there is aliens why haven't they shown themselves, left a message or something. God came down and left a book and people blow it off like nothing. if there were such a thing as evoloution then there would be evidence of where man came from everywhere since were everywhere. nothing man has created has lasted as long as the bible. with out being re written. who put a giant boat 13000 ft above sea level in the side of a moutain if it isn't noahs ark