Truth and Science

[EnemyPartyII]

Well, when I get it in Writing from the Creator of the universe, I tend to believe it.

Please, if you have access to words actually written by God himself, show me where to find them! Of course, I know you ren't going to claim that words written by men could be the same thing as "God's word", not without some sort of evidence to back up the claim.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please, if you have access to words actually written by God himself, show me where to find them! Of course, I know you ren't going to claim that words written by men could be the same thing as "God's word", not without some sort of evidence to back up the claim.

QV please: 16 .

 

[EnemyPartyII]

He is credited with writing it all --- as any amanuensis would testify.

Note the following letter:

Dear Mr Smith,

Please be advised of our schedule change for next week.

Sincerely,

Jose Rodriquez

JR:ss
​

This letter is from whom, and what are those letters: 'ss'?
__________________

Jose Rodriguez still has to sign the document right, even if he dictated it?

So where did God sign the Bible?

 

[gaara4158]

QV please: 16 .

Please prepare to receive correspondence from the Prince of Nigeria. Do whatever he says, it's legit.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please prepare to receive correspondence from the Prince of Nigeria. Do whatever he says, it's legit.

It better be one doosey of a correspondence.

1. It better come from three different continents.
2. It better come in three different languages.
3. It better have been sent by 40+ men.
4. It better have taken 1500 years to write.
5. It better have Nigeria's history written in advance, and fulled so far with 100% accuracy.
6. It better have been preserved with an accuracy of ∆H[sub]Bible[/sub] = 0.
7. Its author better have generated two superpowers under its aegis.
8. Its author's son better have split time into two different ways to record it.

I could go on, but I'm afraid this Prince of Nigeria recognizes futility when he sees it.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It better have Nigeria's history written in advance, and fulled so far with 100% accuracy.

Ah... this claim again... I count one (1) unambiguous fulfilled prophecy in the who Bible. Where are the others?

 

[Nathan Poe]

QV please: 16 and 16.

QV please: 19

 

[StabbingHobo]

We call that diabolical plagiarism.

On whos behalf? Bible is much younger than many other religious texts. Not only that, most of the stories in Bible are diabolical plagiarism.

 

[gaara4158]

It better be one doosey of a correspondence.

1. It better come from three different continents.
2. It better come in three different languages.
3. It better have been sent by 40+ men.
4. It better have taken 1500 years to write.
5. It better have Nigeria's history written in advance, and fulled so far with 100% accuracy.
6. It better have been preserved with an accuracy of ∆H[sub]Bible[/sub] = 0.
7. Its author better have generated two superpowers under its aegis.
8. Its author's son better have split time into two different ways to record it.

I could go on, but I'm afraid this Prince of Nigeria recognizes futility when he sees it.

Do you believe the Bible is true because it meets these standards, or do you hold everything to these standards because you believe the Bible is true?

 

[random325nicaea]

"I'd love to hear the "et cetera". What is watervapor? H20. What is H20? What is hydrogen? What is an atom? What is a quark? etc...

Will science tell us the whole truth, and nothing but the truth someday?"

aal the way down it's all energy....
E=MC^2 remember.
the question is what are the smallest particles and what are their properties.
no god is required to explain ANYTHING here. EXCEPT if you want to go into the illusion of "perfection" of these properties and our human needs.

ofc that is easily explained by "we evolved in this universe, this universe didn't evolve for us"

but the you missed the point apparently. you cannot take a unknown phenomena, then claim "goddidit" and say you explained something, because you obviously haven't. all you did is label another "unknown".

science goes to explain how stuff happens, eg, why the watervapor condenses and falls as rain, why it happens when hot air humid meets cold air, why some water particles are heavier then others, why water is a dipolar molecule, why NO2, formes acid rain, ECT.
same goes for how we got here.
saying "god made us" doesn't tell us jack about how we got here.
it doesn't explain why our phisiology works the way it does, it doesn't explain why we are so similar to other animals, it doesn't explain the fossil record.

all you're doing is labelign one unknown with another unknown and then claiming it has answered something and then use that to support the existence of your being that supposidly "did it".

 

[random325nicaea]

Yes --- and I disagree.

Let's take your rain example.

Rain is nothing more than H[sub]2[/sub]O that has accumulated enough mass to overcome the natural forces keeping it suspended in air.

It then falls to earth in the form of hydrometeorids.

Now a question for you:

What is the formula for gravity?

It is Gm[sub]1[/sub]m[sub]2[/sub]/r[sup]2[/sup].

Who set those parameters?

Why is the G a constant? Why is it m x m and not m + m? Why is it r[sup]2[/sup] and not r[sup]3[/sup]?

I'll tell you why.

God set the parameters 6100 years ago when He moved around the earth in Genesis 1:2.

So, "Yes, Virginia, God does 'cause' the rain."

riight, you forgot the part where water gatherers around dust particles due to their cohesive nature (dipolar) and how they then fall even before the raw calculation point is reached.

and what are those natural forces that are suspending it in the air? and where do they come from?
wind, caused by solar radiation warming the ground and gasses in our lower atmosphere causing the gasses to rise and take (when over an ocean) a lot of water vapor with them, ect, ect.

when you would have said "god dunnit" you would have stopped to aks the questions and seek the answers, or at least there would have been the large drive of "i don't know, lets find out"

"It is Gm[sub]1[/sub]m[sub]2[/sub]/r[sup]2[/sup].

Who set those parameters?"


-_- are you serious?

WHAT are you trying to calculate here?

gravity

what is gravity?

the interaction between 2 masses.


so what is it dependent on?
the mass of the object, their distance apart (the area over which the force is working) and the constant to calculate how mass "transfers" into force, aka the gravtational constant.

these paramaters are set by the people who want to calculate gravity, as they are the only things required to calculate the force.

to say that "god" somehow set these parameters is ludicres.
why question the form of the formula?!
if it would be any different it would describe WHAT WAS GOING ON!

mass apparently interacts, accordign to this formula, we distilled that from countless observations and measurements.

why is this gravitational constant constant?

here im not exactly sure. i think it has to do with the idea that gravity is cause by particles that have certain properties that allow for gravitational interaction (higgs boson?) and since these particles can only exist at one type of energy level, they're "constant".

any physisist please correct me on this, if im wrong.


but i know where you are going AV.

your goign on the "why,why, why?" tour untill we come to a "we don't know...yet" and you shout "AHAH! god didit"

or we'll get to a "that's just the way this particle is" and you inset a "SEE! god made it so".
which doesn't explain squat as i explained earlier. and so needed be put on it in the first place.

 

[random325nicaea]

Well, when I get it in Writing from the Creator of the universe, I tend to believe it.You, on the other hand, obviously refuse to take God at His [written] Word, therefore you're still looking.Then what's taking you so long to find out?

If you have this 'drive to find out', you don't seem to be taking it too seriously.

HAHAHAHAHA.
look at your screen.
if we'd have stuck to "the bible contains all knowledge" like we did in the dark ages. you wouldn't be looking at it. you'd probably alreayd be lookign at your gravestone from below, at your age.

"Well, when I get it in Writing from the Creator of the universe, I tend to believe it."

he didn't even write the thing himself, let alone have it censored and compiled by roman catholic priests in 325AD.

 

[Alunyel]

I don't think it crossed his mind that a large part of the Bible is more likely to've been written retroactively.

Because if that crossed his mind, it'd be blasphemy and he'd go to Hell when he dies.

 

[random325nicaea]

Originally Posted by AV

It better be one doosey of a correspondence.

1. It better come from three different cont
2. It better come in three different languages.
3. inents.
4. It better have been sent by 40+ men.
5. It better have taken 1500 years to write.
6. It better have Nigeria's history written in advance, and fulled so far with 100% accuracy.
7. It better have been preserved with an accuracy of ∆HBible = 0.
8. Its author better have generated two superpowers under its aegis.
9. Its author's son better have split time into two different ways to record it.

I could go on, but I'm afraid this Prince of Nigeria recognizes futility when he sees it.
​

Do you believe the Bible is true because it meets these standards, or do you hold everything to these standards because you believe the Bible is true? __________________

"It better come from three different continents."
compeltely irrelevant back then, the geographical area was a border zone between africa, asia and europe. and trade across this region was commen.
it doesn't make it any more true because it's suddenly "special"

"It better come in three different languages."

so it's special HOW? it was written in the local languages and one of the "super foreign languages" (greek), which considering that some foreigners wrote parts of it" doesn't suprise me.

hebrew was the language of the jews, aramaic was spoken in the same geographical zone, and greek was a reasonably well know language to traders, scribes and intelectuals.

"It better have been sent by 40+ men."

so does my poetry book,
does that make it anymore special? it just indicates that it is a compilation, one that was carfully constructed i might add.

"It better have taken 1500 years to write."

WOW that's enough time to write countless altered versions and then select them for best synchrony!

"It better have Nigeria's history written in advance, and fulled so far with 100% accuracy."

and it better not be vague or allow for people to insert events after they happened.

"It better have been preserved with an accuracy of ∆HBible = 0."

you DO realize that there are many versions of the bible and there are known speling and translation errors that crept in over the years?
you're putting a LOT of trust in some long dead translators, copying the work with quill and inkt.

"Its author better have generated two superpowers under its aegis."

irrelivent, or maybe shakespeare is some divine word since it has 1 superpower under it's ageas, and perhaps voltaire's word is even MORE inspires since it has america AND france.

and ironically, christianity also crashed quite a few empires...
may i remind you of the "west roman empire"

 

[random325nicaea]

I don't think it crossed his mind that a large part of the Bible is more likely to've been written retroactively.

Because if that crossed his mind, it'd be blasphemy and he'd go to Hell when he dies.

he's probably already going to hell along with us all
for lying to other people about reality in order to serve his own agenda

like Hovind.

unless.."lying for jezus" is "A OK!"

btw, i seem to recall something about evangelicals.....hebrews 8 perhaps?

 

[marktheblake]

Not only that, most of the stories in Bible are diabolical plagiarism.

Proof? Obviously nothing less than a paper published in a peer reviewed journal by a qualified historian from a related field is acceptable.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you believe the Bible is true because it meets these standards, or do you hold everything to these standards because you believe the Bible is true?

I believe the Bible is true because It meets these standards.

 

[Hespera]

Please, if you have access to words actually written by God himself, show me where to find them! Of course, I know you ren't going to claim that words written by men could be the same thing as "God's word", not without some sort of evidence to back up the claim.

THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

 

[random325nicaea]

I believe the Bible is true because It meets these standards.

well 4 of those are extremely useless standards.

number of authors, languages, geographical location and amount of empires brought on.

 

[Alunyel]

An example, one of many, is the "Son of God.".

Gods having mortal sons, or manifesting themselves as their son, or having a son amongst the living isn't exactly original.

Jesus' and Horus' life events, etc.http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5a.htm

The parallels between Christian beliefs and other, much older religions are extensive.