Death is still the penalty for sin. Did you believe that changed ?"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
???
The only Spiritual penalty now is suffering the "second death".But the penalty and act of carrying out the punishment for sin changed dramatically between the New and Old.
Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
the punishment for sin, is not receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, not to be murdered by man.
New Testament
Psalms 145:20 - "The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
he will destroy.... not he will command man to destroy/kill and was done in the OT.
Matthew 25:46 - "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Galatians 6:7 - "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
2 Corinthians 5:10 - "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad."
Luke 6:35-36
"But you must love your enemies and do good: and lend without expecting any return, and you will have a rich reward, you will be son of the most high, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked."
there wasn't much kindness shown to the ungrateful and the wicked in the old testament...
Old Testament
Leviticus 26:14-46
“But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, ..."
Chronicles 15:13-14
"and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."
Deuteronomy 13:13-17
"And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God."
Isaiah 14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."
Deuteronomy 5:9
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"
Huh???
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
???
Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?
I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?
I believe that the Bible is truth. It may or may not be literal fact but it is truth.Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
Depending on what you mean: no.Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
It's pretty clear that the answer to that is also no. For example, it doesn't have any math derivations or describe the Ideal Gas Law, and you'll have no luck using it to learn anything about organic chemistry or nuclear physics.Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
I just find that the old and new testament are extremely contradictory...
It seems like the Father that Christ taught about and the God of the old testament are very different beings...
Why do you think?
Right, ok!
But isn't there a difference between bringing mankind along slowly and instructing barbaric behaviour ... and wouldn't God- The supreme being have a harmonious plan, beyond violence and destruction ?
In Matthew 10:16-22
It's says ... "be wary as serpents and innocent as doves. And be on guard, for MEN will hand you over to their courts, THEY will flog you in the synagogues.....when you are arrested, do not worry about wht you are to say.... the words will be given to you.... it will be the spirit of your father speaking in you... brother will betray brother to death, and the father his child, children will turn against their parents and send them to death, All will hate you for your allegiance to me..."
So is it not man that is the perpetrator of the evil doings in this case?
And then in Matthew 10:34-36
" I have not come to bring peace but a sword. I have come to set man against his father, a daughter against her mother....a man will find his enemies under his own roof...no man is worthy of me who cares more for father or mother than for me, no man is worthy of me who does not take up his cross and walk in my footsteps..."
It may be said that he brings a sword not peace, but in Ephesians 6:10-18
"Put on all the armour which God provides..."
The 6th piece of amour is a 'sword'
"For sword, take that which the spirit gives you. The words that come from God."
Is this not be the sword refered to in Matthew? To bring the words from God to the enemies in your home?
Bit of a contrasting description of what the nature and purpose of the sword is...in the OT & NT...
Exodus 32:27-29
"Levites all rallied to him. He said to them, these are the words of the Lord the God of Israel: Arm yourselves, each of you with a sword. Go through the camp from gate to gate and back again. Each of you kill his brother, his friend, his neighbour. The Levites obeyed and about three thousand of the people died that day."
???
But the penalty and act of carrying out the punishment for sin changed dramatically between the New and Old.
Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
the punishment for sin, is not receiving eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, not to be murdered by man.
New Testament
Psalms 145:20 - "The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
he will destroy.... not he will command man to destroy/kill and was done in the OT.
Matthew 25:46 - "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Galatians 6:7 - "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
2 Corinthians 5:10 - "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad."
Luke 6:35-36
"But you must love your enemies and do good: and lend without expecting any return, and you will have a rich reward, you will be son of the most high, because he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked."
there wasn't much kindness shown to the ungrateful and the wicked in the old testament...
Old Testament
Leviticus 26:14-46
“But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, ..."
Chronicles 15:13-14
"and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."
Deuteronomy 13:13-17
"And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God."
Isaiah 14:21
"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."
Deuteronomy 5:9
"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"
Huh???
Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."
???
I hold the bible to be the true and total inspired words of God.Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
Yes. That is the point I was making. The evil of men received the judgement of God.So is it not man that is the perpetrator of the evil doings in this case?
The sword Jesus was referring to was the sword or hate some converts would receive from their own family who rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus goes on to explain that.Is this not be the sword refered to in Matthew? To bring the words from God to the enemies in your home?
How many times did Jesus mention eternal punishment?
Lord Jesus confirmed that the Bible is the truth. I'm not about to argue with Him.Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
where?Lord Jesus confirmed that the Bible is the truth.
Hi Jess !Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
Read the gospels. Lord Jesus said "It is written" many times. He also said that God's word is truth, John 17:17.where?
Hi All,
Any Christians on here think there may be truth and lies worked into the religion and the bible itself?
Or do you believe the bible to be all truth?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts...
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