• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Trump Tax Plan Gives Jobs Away to Robots and Will Increase Unemployment

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Fantine, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

    +2,373
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    So let's just punish them out of business with confiscatory tax rates? Gee, that makes a lot of sense.

    You need to disabuse yourself of the notion that businesses exist solely for the benefit of the employees. People don't start companies as as conduit for jobs. They start companies because they have a product or service that people want. In order to deliver it, they have to hire people to make, distribute or serve. In the process, those workers earn market-based wages and benefits. If the business can no longer provide the product or service in a profitable way, they eventually go out of business. That would be true regardless of whether they used automation or human workers. The fact is, progress will drive these innovative technologies to create efficiencies. Do you want to go back to the horse and buggy days?


    There is no SEC regulation that mandates investors "be taken care of". I know. I'm in the industry. The only regulations publically traded companies are required to follow regarding investors, is filing accurate financial disclosure documents so that investors can make informed decisions. Perhaps you're unaware that people who invest in stocks have zero protection should the company go bankrupt. They assume 100% of the risk that they could lose all their money.
     
  2. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

    +2,906
    Presbyterian
    Married
    Wasn't that the plan for businesses that outsourced? Didn't Trump promise to place crazy fees on imported goods?

    You're cool with outsourcing then?[/Quote]
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  3. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

    +5,796
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    US-Others
    Still laughing at the premise of the article. Breaking news:

    Trump removes the word gullible from the dictionary.
     
  4. markham_67_carl

    markham_67_carl New Member

    21
    +9
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    No, but we need to keep in mind that it is pure fiction to think that giving them tax breaks will somehow inerrantly create more jobs.

    Yes it may free up some money for reinvestment, but it isn't necessarily a 1:1 proposition. As we've seen before, when industry is given tax holidays they take the money and plow it into share buy-backs or executive compensation.

    Just recently the groups who are overseeing compensation for executives of Toys R Us who completed a major lay off earlier this year as part of their bankruptcy were asking the courts the right to pay them multimillion dollar bonuses to stay on.

    We can't expect industry to act in any way that isn't explicitly outlined for them.

    And we also need to not allow businesses to exist solely for the benefit of the executive suite.

    I wholly agree with that. And I hope that you also agree that there are no jobs "created"....just work that needs to be done.

    Job creators are a mythical beast. No one "creates" a job out of the goodness of their heart, they create jobs because work needs doing.

    For some reason in this country we have elevated the business owner to sainthood status while characterizing the workers as greedy envious graspers.

    Not at all! And I fully understand the drive to automation. But we cannot characterize it as a weakness of the worker.

    I believe the corporation has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders.
    Does a Corporation Owe Fiduciary Duty to Shareholders?

    This includes "The duty of care requires directors on the board to exercise good business judgment when making decisions on behalf of the corporation."

    This is far more than merely filing the proper paperwork.

    Some executives take these to also include maximizing profits although that is a controversial stance.

    https://www.litigationandtrial.com/...ons-are-legally-required-to-maximize-profits/

    There Is No Effective Fiduciary Duty to Maximize Profits
     
  5. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

    +3,688
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Automation was encouraged when the minimum wage was bumped up to $15 per hour in some places.
     
  6. markham_67_carl

    markham_67_carl New Member

    21
    +9
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    This seems disingenuous of corporations. Considering that the purchasing power of the minimum wage has not increased (but has actually decreased) over the last 40 years or so.

    The federal minimum wage hit its peak purchasing power nearly 50 years ago

    We cannot put people on an ever-decreasing value for nearly half a century and then, when someone asks for a modest recouping of that value to scream that that will collapse the economy.
     
  7. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

    +3,688
    Non-Denom
    Single
    40 years ago, I was only 6. When I was 16, I got my first job where I was paid $3.35 per hour, which was the minimum at that time. It's $7.25 now, and most people make more than that.
     
  8. cow451

    cow451 Shaken, Not Stirred Supporter

    +8,171
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Automation was encouraged by the invention of the wheel.
     
  9. markham_67_carl

    markham_67_carl New Member

    21
    +9
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Money does not have the same "value" over time. That is why the analyses are in terms of either "current dollars" or "purchasing power".

    What $7.75 can buy you today is very, very, very different from what $7.74 could buy in 1960.

    In "real dollars" (constant dollars, or dollars adjusted for inflation) the minimum wage has actually decreased over time.
     
  10. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

    +5,947
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Democrat
    My first job was 50 years ago. I earned the minimum wage, a dollar sixty an hour. Hard to believe it purchased more than the minimum wage does today.

    Companies are short-sighted if they don't realize that they won't be able to sell any products if people aren't working. Robots don't need clothes, food, or iPhones. They are on a collision course for destruction, as is our country's economy, the more jobs they try to eliminate.
     
  11. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,213
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    This is a scary subject. I have heard predictions recently that within a few years, 20% of the U.S. factory jobs will be lost to robots.
     
  12. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

    +2,906
    Presbyterian
    Married
    Average price of a gallon of gas in the USA in 1981: $1.19
    Average price of a gallon of gas in the USA today: $2.49
     
  13. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob honeycomb on mans face -- we are bee keepers Supporter

    +4,257
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    From what I hear once the minimum wage hits around $15 per hour then the robots will be actually saving a little money per hour.

    M-Bob
     
  14. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

    +3,688
    Non-Denom
    Single
    If it costs less to manufacture things using robots, then prices for things will drop, and your dollars will go further.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  15. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

    +2,373
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Where did I say that?
     
  16. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

    +2,906
    Presbyterian
    Married
    What's the difference? Corporations save money by replacing American workers with (x) labor, and pass the savings on to you!
     
  17. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

    +3,688
    Non-Denom
    Single
    The robots/automation would have to be installed and maintained on location, which would mean American workers (unless they're illegal immigrants) on American soil.
     
  18. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

    +2,373
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    Now you're moving the goal posts. You specifically stated that "In publically traded companies the ONLY people that I am aware of who are mandated by law to be taken care of are investors." And as I responded, there is no such law. Further, fiduciary duties are reflected in the financial reports that are required by law. And in case you didn't know, the board of directors are voted on by the shareholders. The fact that shareholders continue to vote for directors that keep executive compensation high is something you fail to address. The general perception however, is that paying someone a lot of money and giving them stock options will incentivize them to make the company more profitable. This is largely true. If a big chunk of your compensation was stock and your leadership increased shareholder value, than your shares are worth more.
     
  19. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

    +2,373
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    I don't appreciate words being put in my mouth. I didn't imply anything you stated.
     
  20. PeachyKeane

    PeachyKeane Newbie

    +2,906
    Presbyterian
    Married
    Okay. What's the difference?
     
Loading...