the msm sources imo are fluent in selective negativism and geared to getting ratings and $ - they ignore some news - and other news they present with such inflammatory over the top commentary that it is skewed away from the simple factsWhich sources, any what specific problem do you have with them?
not until you quote what i said rather than telling me i said something i didn't sayGood thing I didn't. The "Truthfrees said" block is unedited.
Any chance you want to address what I actually wrote?
Jesus was meant to die for our sins - He didn't need rescuing - He needed to be falsely accused and wrongly convicted and sentenced to death to pay for our sins and give us His blessings from GodWhat was the actual lesson he was teaching with the swords? One of his disciples tried to defend them with one and Jesus chastisized him. Does that sound like Jesus was encouraging the use of weapons for self defense?
As for what I want or would choose, how is that relevant? Surely we’re talking about biblical teaching here? Surely our personal preferences should be completely irrelevant in that discussion?
very true - i agree with you - i guess i wrongly assumed you wouldn't think so - my badAs for what I want or would choose, how is that relevant? Surely we’re talking about biblical teaching here? Surely our personal preferences should be completely irrelevant in that discussion?
Jesus was meant to die for our sins - He didn't need rescuing - He needed to be falsely accused and wrongly convicted and sentenced to death to pay for our sins and give us His blessings from God
Luke 22:36 are the last words He said about money and weapons
so when Jesus says in one place take NO money and put your sword DOWN - and then LATER - in another place says NOW i say take money with you and buy a SWORD - it is because there are different circumstances which call for different applications of wisdom
in this situation Jesus said enough - stop - and he healed the servant - Jesus didn't need rescuing - the swords were meant for a different reasonBut then Luke 22:50-51 happens:
"And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear."
"And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him."
So I don't see how your interpretation stands up to scrutiny. If Jesus instruction about the swords was actually a genuine call to take up arms, then why would shortly afterwards he chastize Peter for using that sword, and heal the damage it had caused? If Jesus didn't need rescuing (which is logical) then treating the command to bring swords as a literal lesson about the rightousness of self-defense seems a somewhat bizarre one. Is it not more plausible that there was intended to be a deeper lesson here, especially considering he'd spent the rest of the bible urging non-violent behaviour? It seems quite illogical that after all that talk of pacifism, he'd suddenly command his followers to take up weapons, and then 5 minutes later tell them off for actually using them.
That's fine for you. Sorry I'm not a pacifist. And neither are a lot of other Christians. I don't believe it's sinful to own a gun or have a gun. The Bible doesn't say it's sinful to have a weapon. It doesn't even say it's sinful to use it. Now if we suffer for the gospel and are persecuted for it, I think that's fine. But I don't believe the Bible teaches that if a criminal breaks into my house or my neighbors and I going to kill, rape or whatever that the Bible wants us to stand by and watch it happen. That's not love at all.Note that the Bible says that Christians do not employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus Christ at His first coming set the example for what Christians are to do when they are physically attacked by people (1 Peter 2:19-23). They are to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36, Psalms 44:6,22), just like Jesus did (Isaiah 53:7). Obedient Christians do not fear death (Hebrews 2:15), and do not love their lives unto death (Revelation 12:11b), but hate their lives in this world, so that they might retain eternal life (John 12:25, Mark 8:34-38). For obedient Christians know that being killed is no loss for them, but gain (Philippians 1:21), as it will bring their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this fallen world (Philippians 1:23).
During the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Christians (not in hiding) will have to face martyrdom with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as Christians have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Revelation 2:10-11).
Truthfrees said in post #135:
actually Jesus' last words on this subject are Luke 22:36 which is different than what you have posted
Truthfrees said in post #137:
even if you are opposed to the 2nd amendment would you want the police and army to be unarmed?
Truthfrees said in post #143:
Jesus was meant to die for our sins - He didn't need rescuing . . .
So someone who physically persecutes Christians is not a criminal?rjs330 said in post #147:
Now if we suffer for the gospel and are persecuted for it, I think that's fine. But I don't believe the Bible teaches that if a criminal breaks into my house or my neighbors and I going to kill, rape or whatever that the Bible wants us to stand by and watch it happen.
rjs330 said in post #147:
That's not love at all.
i understand your perspective - and i agree that Jesus doesn't ever contradict Himself - but He was not a pacifistNote that Jesus' last words on the subject do not contradict His previous words.
For Luke 22:36b means that every Christian should obtain the sword of God's Holy Spirit, which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17, Hebrews 4:12). The "two swords" which are enough for all Christians (Luke 22:38) represent the two main parts of God's Word: the Old Testament and the New Testament. Luke 22:36b cannot mean that every Christian should obtain a physical weapon, for otherwise two physical weapons would not have been enough for all of the apostles (Luke 22:38). And Luke 22:36b cannot mean that any Christian should obtain a physical weapon to attack other people with, even in self-defense. For Christians are elsewhere commanded not to defend themselves when they are attacked, but to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39). For those who take up a physical weapon to attack other people, even in self-defense, will perish by a weapon (Matthew 26:52).
Also, the apostle Paul, who taught after Jesus Christ, showed in the Bible that Christians do not employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus Christ at His first coming set the example for what Christians are to do when they are physically attacked by people (1 Peter 2:19-23). They are to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36, Psalms 44:6,22), just like Jesus did (Isaiah 53:7). Obedient Christians do not fear death (Hebrews 2:15), and do not love their lives unto death (Revelation 12:11b), but hate their lives in this world, so that they might retain eternal life (John 12:25, Mark 8:34-38). For obedient Christians know that being killed is no loss for them, but gain (Philippians 1:21), as it will bring their still-conscious souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this fallen world (Philippians 1:23).
During the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Christians (not in hiding) will have to face martyrdom with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as Christians have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Revelation 2:10-11).
*******
The Second Amendment is fine, for non-Christians, and for Christian hunters and target shooters.
But it is against God's Word for Christians to ever use physical weapons against people. For Christians are not to employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (Matthew 5:39, Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18).
But God does allow civil authorities to employ weapons and violence against criminals (Romans 13:3-4). And Christians are to obey, and pay their taxes to support, civil authorities (Romans 13:1-6).
*******
And neither do we, by violent self-defense.
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It is sometimes asked: "Does the Lord call us to just sit back and allow ourselves to be killed, when it is not the Lord's time to call us home?"
The answer is: If it is not the Lord's time to call us home, then He will not allow murderers to come and kill us, or allow any other form of death to come to us (Psalms 91). But if it is our time, then He could allow us to be murdered, and we should face that without any fear (Revelation 2:10) or complaint, but even with thankfulness (1 Thessalonians 5:18), that we can then enter heaven, which is far better than remaining in this fallen world (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).
Also, what gives us the right to kill someone who is attacking us, if it is not the Lord's time for that person to die? God might still want to save that person's soul and help him to change and be a nice person. And how can God do that if we kill that person while he is still an unrepentant non-Christian, so that when he dies his soul goes to hell? If Stephen the martyr in the book of Acts could ask God to forgive those who were stoning him to death (Acts 7:59-60), so that even they might be saved from hell, then we should also show mercy to everyone (Matthew 5:7, Matthew 6:15), even if they are about to kill us.
i understand your perspective - and i agree that Jesus doesn't ever contradict Himself - but He was not a pacifist
there is a reason to turn the other cheek and there is a reason to take a sword - and as long as each christian is seeking God's wisdom he will know the how when why of these particulars - imo God will even help non-christians know how to cut this line
but it is inaccurate for a person to throw out the "buy a sword" command Jesus gave to create a "pacifist" Jesus
i don't see any command by Jesus to not defend your life - and just let someone kill you or someone you loveBut he’s provided you with another interpretation of the swords command, and it does fit with the broader message. Surely if Jesus wanted people to defend themselves from attack he’d have just said so, considering he was extremely clear previously that his followers should do the exact opposite. I’m not sure how you can reconcile ‘turn the other cheek’ with ‘defend yourself’. It’s never really sat comfortably with me.
i don't see any command by Jesus to not defend your life - and just let someone kill you or someone you love
well if a person wants to embrace pacifism i don't have a problem with that - we each have to follow our conscience on something like that - so i don't want to dissuade you from you pov - most martyrs are of that pov as well - and i suppose pacifists will have a hard time seeing a non-violent non-pacifist povDoes a lack of a command mean he must have meant the opposite? He certainly said plainly that if you're attacked you should turn the other cheek.
great scriptures - they do show that God trains our hands for war -Luke 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;
Exodus 22:2-3 If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him.
Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Proverbs 25:26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked.
Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;
Ecclesiastes 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
great scriptures - they do show that God trains our hands for war -
in every war there is an attacker and a defender - to not be prepared for war is asking for trouble -
God bless those God has called and trained to war against attackers
Nice rant. Now getting back to the question, which specific sources did I use that you have an issue with and why?the msm sources imo are fluent in selective negativism and geared to getting ratings and $ - they ignore some news - and other news they present with such inflammatory over the top commentary that it is skewed away from the simple facts
the commentary imo is much like the music in movies - if you watch the movie without the music it can be kinda plain and even boring - when you add the emotional and sometimes intense music it changes the tone and creates a different context
that is why i try to find news without commentary - or christian news because they pray for everyone on all sides - they are calm and factual - they try to promote peace and good will -
not until you quote what i said rather than telling me i said something i didn't say
iow read what i said and then ask me a question that matches what i actually said - i'm not going to defend or discuss something i didn't say
as i told you it's your words that were misrepresenting what is said - my words were accurate - yours were notAs I mentioned before, the quote in my post was verbatim from what you wrote. If you don't like the way your words come across, that isn't on me.
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