Trump just promised an authoritarian ‘task force’ to impose Christian ideology

[MrMoe]

About that....


His arguments for absolute Presidential immunity sure sound like he wants complete power. The only limit would be impeachment and removal...and he's survived two attempts at that so far, due entirely to party loyalty. And, so long as his party controls the House, there possibility of a third impeachment would be minimized.

And, of course, he also would give himself a "get out of jail free" card by simply resigning. No impeachment, no removal...no accountability.

Sounds like a dictator to me.

Let's see what an expert has to say.

"The widespread fear that Trump will actually be a dictator, however, is misplaced. If Trump wins the 2024 election, American democracy might be suspended, at least temporarily. But it won’t be replaced by a dictatorship, which is a coherent and recognizable system of government. Instead, if Trump wins, my view is that American democracy will be replaced by American “chaosracy” — an incoherent, volatile and unpredictable mix of some government institutions that function democratically and some that don’t."

"But if Trump wins, he won’t become a dictator. A dictator dictates the workings of government. Merriam Webster defines a dictator as “one holding complete autocratic control: a person with unlimited governmental power.” This is what Trump will want to achieve. But he won’t get anywhere near “complete autocratic control” over American government."

"Washington Post columnist Ishaan Tharoor recently cited several examples of tactics many people think Trump would use to become a dictator: “As my colleagues have reported over the past year, Trump has made clear his stark, authoritarian vision for a potential second term. He would embark on a wholesale purge of the federal bureaucracy, weaponize the Justice Department to explicitly go after his political opponents (something he claims is being done to him), stack government agencies across the board with political appointees prescreened as ideological Trump loyalists, and dole out pardons to myriad officials and apparatchiks as incentives to do his bidding or stay loyal.”


There’s a simple problem with these prognostications: Trump can’t actually do these things. The presidential pardon power isn’t broad enough to preemptively immunize widespread criminal activity; political appointees must be confirmed by a majority of the Senate (which would reject Trump’s worst co-conspirators); and the majority of federal officials serve across presidential administrations in a large, powerful and entrenched bureaucracy.

The federal bureaucracy can’t simply be “purged.” Valid federal legislation authorizes and funds government agencies — and powerful unions protect their workers — so the courts won’t allow federal employees to be fired en masse absent duly enacted legislation. Republican presidents have long tried to shrink the administrative state. They’ve failed miserably."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/opinions/trump-election-2024-dictator-cooper/index.html

So, in conclusion, the chances of Trump becoming a dictator is zero.

The absolute immunity Trump seeks does not already exist.

I know. I said he's trying to bring it into existence and he is unlikely to get it.

Yeah, it's so hard to get good sycophant...er, I mean help these days.

I don't know what you're trying to say here and how it relates to what I said. I'm not good at riddles.

 

[MrMoe]

He promised a task force, and the things that he says that he/the task force will do could easily be construed as "imposing Christian ideology". So no, not a deliberate misstatement of fact.

Interesting that you didn't quote the things that he says that he/the task force will do could easily be construed as "imposing Christian ideology".

I read the article and don't see anything that Trump said that could easily be construed as "imposing Christian ideology".

Please quote the things that he says that he/the task force will do could easily be construed as imposing Christian ideology.

It's a reasonable synthesis of several things that Trump has said. Remember that, when reading an opinion article, you should append "In my opinion..." to headlines that don't already have some version of that included. It's implied.

Then I'm guessing you would have no issue if there was a headline like:

Opinion | Biden just promised an authoritarian ‘task force’ to impose LGBTQ ideology​

Speculation is a type of opinion - one that is not very well-founded in fact. The more facts you have, the less speculatory your opinion is.

In journalism they are separate.

"Opinion: a person's thoughts or feelings; Speculation: a guess or inference about what has happened".

"Journalists must not include their own opinions in a news report. They can include the opinions of those involved in the story, but must not report them as fact. They must be able to tell the difference between fact and opinion, as well as speculation and rumour."

Lesson 7

Identifying the difference between fact and opinion

theguardianfoundation.org

 

[MrMoe]

Your “And yet” is a non sequitur. Every indication is that he doesn’t respect the rule of law.

While he was in office last time, he realized he couldn’t do all that he wanted to, such as have those who oppose him jailed, so this time he is determined to do it differently.

He won't succeed in becoming a dictator.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/opinions/trump-election-2024-dictator-cooper/index.html

I found another quote by this same author that I agree with. "First, a growing percentage of the American people are becoming more irrational."

Cooper: America needs heavy dose of rationality

For most of human history, the best a lunatic could do to inflict widespread harm was hurl rocks at people nearby. The Industrial Revolution led to today’s sophisticated weaponry. And

www.news-journal.com

I see this thread is an example of that. It seems like members here are trying convince themselves as much as they are me that Trump will become a dictator. Even though that's never going to happen.

 

[A2SG]

Let's see what an expert has to say.

"The widespread fear that Trump will actually be a dictator, however, is misplaced. If Trump wins the 2024 election, American democracy might be suspended, at least temporarily. But it won’t be replaced by a dictatorship, which is a coherent and recognizable system of government. Instead, if Trump wins, my view is that American democracy will be replaced by American “chaosracy” — an incoherent, volatile and unpredictable mix of some government institutions that function democratically and some that don’t."

"But if Trump wins, he won’t become a dictator. A dictator dictates the workings of government. Merriam Webster defines a dictator as “one holding complete autocratic control: a person with unlimited governmental power.” This is what Trump will want to achieve. But he won’t get anywhere near “complete autocratic control” over American government."

"Washington Post columnist Ishaan Tharoor recently cited several examples of tactics many people think Trump would use to become a dictator: “As my colleagues have reported over the past year, Trump has made clear his stark, authoritarian vision for a potential second term. He would embark on a wholesale purge of the federal bureaucracy, weaponize the Justice Department to explicitly go after his political opponents (something he claims is being done to him), stack government agencies across the board with political appointees prescreened as ideological Trump loyalists, and dole out pardons to myriad officials and apparatchiks as incentives to do his bidding or stay loyal.”


There’s a simple problem with these prognostications: Trump can’t actually do these things. The presidential pardon power isn’t broad enough to preemptively immunize widespread criminal activity; political appointees must be confirmed by a majority of the Senate (which would reject Trump’s worst co-conspirators); and the majority of federal officials serve across presidential administrations in a large, powerful and entrenched bureaucracy.

The federal bureaucracy can’t simply be “purged.” Valid federal legislation authorizes and funds government agencies — and powerful unions protect their workers — so the courts won’t allow federal employees to be fired en masse absent duly enacted legislation. Republican presidents have long tried to shrink the administrative state. They’ve failed miserably."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/opinions/trump-election-2024-dictator-cooper/index.html

Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

So, in conclusion, the chances of Trump becoming a dictator is zero.

I share the hope that he won't succeed at it. There are enough checks and balances built into the system to prevent that, and I certainly hope they work.

But...

If Trump is granted the absolute Presidential immunity he and his legal team are arguing for, he won't have any accountability for any actions he takes while in office. According to his legal arguments, if the President isn't impeached and removed from office by Congress, he cannot be prosecuted. For anything. Ever. Period.

Maybe that differs from the dictionary definition of "dictator," but it sure sounds like he'd be able to do whatever he wants with no repercussions whatsoever.

We can only hope the SCOTUS doesn't cave in to Trump's demands.

I know. I said he's trying to bring it into existence and he is unlikely to get it.

We can only hope.

I don't know what you're trying to say here and how it relates to what I said. I'm not good at riddles.

Don't worry about it.

-- A2SG, explaining a joke never makes it funny....

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Interesting that you didn't quote the things that he says that he/the task force will do could easily be construed as "imposing Christian ideology".

Why would I spend the effort to try to convince you of an opinion that I already know you reject utterly? You don't have to agree with the author or how he's interpreted Trump's statements and actions in order to recognize that he's voicing his opinion rather than lying.

Then I'm guessing you would have no issue if there was a headline like:

Opinion | Biden just promised an authoritarian ‘task force’ to impose LGBTQ ideology​

Aside from disagreeing with it, no, no issue. It's an opinion piece, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

"Opinion: a person's thoughts or feelings;

Right

Speculation: a guess or inference about what has happened".

Which is generally going to be based on the speculator's thoughts and feelings - their opinions. Not all opinion is speculation, but all speculation is opinion.

An opinion piece is not journalism. It's explicitly the author's own opinion, which - as you point out - has no place in journalism.

 

[MrMoe]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

An opinion backed up by facts that can't really be refuted.

I share the hope that he won't succeed at it. There are enough checks and balances built into the system to prevent that, and I certainly hope they work.

But...

If Trump is granted the absolute Presidential immunity he and his legal team are arguing for, he won't have any accountability for any actions he takes while in office. According to his legal arguments, if the President isn't impeached and removed from office by Congress, he cannot be prosecuted. For anything. Ever. Period.

Maybe that differs from the dictionary definition of "dictator," but it sure sounds like he'd be able to do whatever he wants with no repercussions whatsoever.

We can only hope the SCOTUS doesn't cave in to Trump's demands.

Whatever happens, Trump won't become a dictator.

 

[SimplyMe]

Let's see what an expert has to say.

"The widespread fear that Trump will actually be a dictator, however, is misplaced. If Trump wins the 2024 election, American democracy might be suspended, at least temporarily. But it won’t be replaced by a dictatorship, which is a coherent and recognizable system of government. Instead, if Trump wins, my view is that American democracy will be replaced by American “chaosracy” — an incoherent, volatile and unpredictable mix of some government institutions that function democratically and some that don’t."

"But if Trump wins, he won’t become a dictator. A dictator dictates the workings of government. Merriam Webster defines a dictator as “one holding complete autocratic control: a person with unlimited governmental power.” This is what Trump will want to achieve. But he won’t get anywhere near “complete autocratic control” over American government."

"Washington Post columnist Ishaan Tharoor recently cited several examples of tactics many people think Trump would use to become a dictator: “As my colleagues have reported over the past year, Trump has made clear his stark, authoritarian vision for a potential second term. He would embark on a wholesale purge of the federal bureaucracy, weaponize the Justice Department to explicitly go after his political opponents (something he claims is being done to him), stack government agencies across the board with political appointees prescreened as ideological Trump loyalists, and dole out pardons to myriad officials and apparatchiks as incentives to do his bidding or stay loyal.”


There’s a simple problem with these prognostications: Trump can’t actually do these things. The presidential pardon power isn’t broad enough to preemptively immunize widespread criminal activity; political appointees must be confirmed by a majority of the Senate (which would reject Trump’s worst co-conspirators); and the majority of federal officials serve across presidential administrations in a large, powerful and entrenched bureaucracy.

The federal bureaucracy can’t simply be “purged.” Valid federal legislation authorizes and funds government agencies — and powerful unions protect their workers — so the courts won’t allow federal employees to be fired en masse absent duly enacted legislation. Republican presidents have long tried to shrink the administrative state. They’ve failed miserably."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/opinions/trump-election-2024-dictator-cooper/index.html

So, in conclusion, the chances of Trump becoming a dictator is zero.




I know. I said he's trying to bring it into existence and he is unlikely to get it.



I don't know what you're trying to say here and how it relates to what I said. I'm not good at riddles.

I have a hard time accepting that a Republican led Senate, to be expected if Trump wins next year, wouldn't prevent Trump from getting those he wants into government positions -- particularly since it merely takes a simple majority (you can't filibuster Presidential appointments). On top of that, as Trump showed in his first administration, it can be hard to prosecute for illegal behavior, when the administration is refusing to cooperate with investigations -- and in many cases, it would be Trump's handpicked AG that would need to decide to charge and then prosecute the cases.

 

[Yttrium]

I have a hard time accepting that a Republican led Senate, to be expected if Trump wins next year, wouldn't prevent Trump from getting those he wants into government positions -- particularly since it merely takes a simple majority (you can't filibuster Presidential appointments). On top of that, as Trump showed in his first administration, it can be hard to prosecute for illegal behavior, when the administration is refusing to cooperate with investigations -- and in many cases, it would be Trump's handpicked AG that would need to decide to charge and then prosecute the cases.

Yeah, but Trump generally has two types of people to choose from: those who are competent and will inevitably turn on him, and those who are loyal but completely incompetent in a government position. Trump tried the first approach last time, and it didn't work out for him. He'll try the other way next, which will just be a crazed mess. He's a dictator wannabe, but he's self-defeating.

 

[MrMoe]

Why would I spend the effort to try to convince you of an opinion that I already know you reject utterly?

How do you know I've already utterly rejected it? I'm asking you to provide evidence for your claim to see if you can convince me.

You don't have to agree with the author or how he's interpreted Trump's statements and actions in order to recognize that he's voicing his opinion rather than lying.

The problem is you can dismiss just about any lie as just an opinion. For example, try any right wing conspiracy.

"The election was stolen. That's my opinion." etc.

She made a claim in the title and didn't back that up with any evidence. Therefore it is a lie.

Aside from disagreeing with it, no, no issue. It's an opinion piece, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Why would you disagree with it if you don't even know what the rest of the article says?

Right

Which is generally going to be based on the speculator's thoughts and feelings - their opinions. Not all opinion is speculation, but all speculation is opinion.

An opinion piece is not journalism. It's explicitly the author's own opinion, which - as you point out - has no place in journalism.

Opinions still need to be backed up by facts. She has no fact to back up the claim she makes in the title.

 

[rambot]

He won't succeed in becoming a dictator.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/11/opinions/trump-election-2024-dictator-cooper/index.html

I found another quote by this same author that I agree with. "First, a growing percentage of the American people are becoming more irrational."

Cooper: America needs heavy dose of rationality

For most of human history, the best a lunatic could do to inflict widespread harm was hurl rocks at people nearby. The Industrial Revolution led to today’s sophisticated weaponry. And

www.news-journal.com

I see this thread is an example of that. It seems like members here are trying convince themselves as much as they are me that Trump will become a dictator. Even though that's never going to happen.

I wonder if you understand why the left thinks it would be terrible to vote in someone who would WANT to be a dictator supported by some who would want him to be a dictator.

I mean it's just one personality quirk in a LONG line of trumps personality quirks that make him unfit to lead a horse much less a nation.

 

[MrMoe]

I wonder if you understand why the left thinks it would be terrible to vote in someone who would WANT to be a dictator supported by some who would want him to be a dictator.

I mean it's just one personality quirk in a LONG line of trumps personality quirks that make him unfit to lead a horse much less a nation.

How do you know he wants to be a dictator?

 

[Hans Blaster]

How do you know he wants to be a dictator?

He said so.

 

[A2SG]

An opinion backed up by facts that can't really be refuted.

Like the fact that Trump is actively trying to argue for absolute Presidential immunity?

Whatever happens, Trump won't become a didictator.

We can only hope he doesn't get into office with the absolute Presidential immunity he's seeking, in order to find that out.

-- A2SG, can't think of a worse alternative...

 

[rambot]

How do you know he wants to be a dictator?

This whole thread is about how it would be impossible.

Pray, why would the discussion even be happening otherwise?

He's an unwell man.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

How do you know I've already utterly rejected it?

Because you said that you read the article and didn't see anything to support the author's conclusion. Because you stated that the headline was a lie.

I'm asking you to provide evidence for your claim to see if you can convince me.

The only thing that I'm trying to convince you of is that your disagreement with a statement does not make it a lie.

The problem is you can dismiss just about any lie as just an opinion. For example, try any right wing conspiracy.

"The election was stolen. That's my opinion." etc.

Again, something is only a lie if the person saying it knows that it is untrue. Someone can have an opinion that the election was stolen and not be lying. They're wrong, and potentially willfully ignorant, but not (necessarily) lying.

She made a claim in the title and didn't back that up with any evidence. Therefore it is a lie.

The op-ed has plenty of supporting evidence in the form of statements by Trump and actions that he took while President. The fact that you don't think that that evidence supports the author's conclusion is irrelevant. Unless you are Donald Trump or a mind reader, your opinions of what Trump means when he says or does something aren't any more factual than mine (or the op-ed's author).

Opinions still need to be backed up by facts.

Not really. They are backed up by observations and our analysis of those observations. For instance, if I believe that Bob is smart, that's my opinion of Bob's intelligence. It would be based on the things that I've seen Bob do and heard him say. But those aren't facts - the facts may be that the "smart" things that I observed him doing were sheer dumb luck and the "smart" things he said only sounded smart because I didn't understand the topic. So, I have an opinion of Bob ("Bob is smart") that is not supported by facts. And the facts don't necessarily prove my opinion wrong either - maybe Bob is smart; just not in relation to those topics that I happened to observe his pseudo-smart words and actions for.

 

[FireDragon76]

Interesting that he said "You have a war", he doesn't seem to include himself among Christians...

It's very telling.

Last time I checked, he was baptized a Presbyterian and sometimes attends an Episcopal church near Mar-a-Lago. Wolf in sheep's clothing?

 

[MrMoe]

He said so.

I'm guessing you're talking about when he said he would be a dictator for one day. He said he's going to do two things. Fix the border. Which many Americans want. The the other is about energy. "After that I'm not going to be a dictator." This is what those on the left are fearmongering about?

 

[MrMoe]

Like the fact that Trump is actively trying to argue for absolute Presidential immunity?

Neither I or the author are trying to refute that. Trump can't be a dictator is the whole point the author is making.

We can only hope he doesn't get into office with the absolute Presidential immunity he's seeking, in order to find that out.

-- A2SG, can't think of a worse alternative...

You can sleep easy. Trump won't be a dictator.

 

[MrMoe]

This whole thread is about how it would be impossible.

Strange, it's seems like I'm the only one saying that. Everyone I've replied to seems convinced it's possible.

 

[rambot]

Strange, it's seems like I'm the only one saying that. Everyone I've replied to seems convinced it's possible.

yes.
But regardless of whether it is POSSIBLE, it is a clear indicator that nobody who treasures American values should be voting or supporting this man.