Trump declares houses of worship immediately "essential" and will enforce

[Hazelelponi]

Try and lock up a bunch of Christians and tell them in person services is a crime and I'll show you how many Christians are in this country by the amount of people willing to be jailed to follow their faith.

This country was built in the premise of the freedom of all men to worship their God. Try it. Come jail me. I'll take it to the Supreme Court.

Have fun with that.

 

[Speedwell]

It’s called life. Stop cowering.

It is interesting to see that you are self-righteous enough to make that choice for others. But no matter; I wouldn't want to be having close personal contact with an individual of your ilk even if there were no virus.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This country was built in the premise of the freedom of all men to worship their God.

Lol, no it wasn't. Many colonies were very much not tolerant of other religions.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Try and lock up a bunch of Christians and tell them in person services is a crime and I'll show you how many Christians are in this country by the amount of people willing to be jailed to follow their faith.

This country was built in the premise of the freedom of all men to worship their God. Try it. Come jail me. I'll take it to the Supreme Court.

Have fun with that.

 

[High Fidelity]

No, it won’t.

Of course it will lead to deaths.

How can groups of people in a confined space not lead to further cases and deaths during a pandemic?

You have the most deaths in the world and you're being pandered to for political clout.

This will lead to deaths. No ifs or buts

 

[chevyontheriver]

Excellent news. We can only hope that lots and lots of trump supporters take advantage of this great gift he's given them.

Can I take advantage of it if I am NOT a Trump supporter? Or would I then have to obey my governor? ;-)

 

[chevyontheriver]

Can everyone just order alcohol/nicotine online? Because there's millions of people addicted to both, and cutting addicts off from their drug at a time when they are under additional stress anyway could have huge consequences. Which is exactly why most governments exempted both from the lockdown.

Don't forget the weed sales were considered essential in those states that have decriminalized it. Same reason I suspect.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Of course it will lead to deaths.

How can groups of people in a confined space not lead to further cases and deaths during a pandemic?

Ooo...Ooo... I know the answer!

Because God will never allow real Christians to get sick; His hand will protect the faithful -- and the 1.63 million Americans who got sick up to today were simply unworthy of His blessing...

 

[Bobber]

If a church wants to defy the orders of the governor, that's on them, but my point is that Trump cannot override the governors. He does not have that kind of power. Even though he repeatedly thinks he does.

I don't believe he really thinks he does. It's using it as a hyperbole statement to let everybody know where he stands.

 

[cow451]

No, it won’t.

Yes it will.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It's not about the economy, it's about the first amendment and rational thought...

If it's perfectly okay, healthy, etc to attend the crowds at walmart, lowes, liquor stores and tobacco shops its perfectly okay to attend any other public place... church included.

The government doesn't dole out the first amendment, they are charged with not interfering with it.

Exactly! QFT


To tell you the truth I'm so sick of the masks, and the shut downs I'm about at the place to willing get the virus if I can get some kind of gold star certificate / badge certifying that I have the antibodies etc. and can thus go to work, not have to wear a mask for the next so many years etc.

 

[cow451]

This country was built in the premise of the freedom of all men to worship their God. Try it. Come jail me. I'll take it to the Supreme Court.

I hope the hearing isn’t postponed due to your illness.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Exactly! QFT


To tell you the truth I'm so sick of the masks, and the shut downs I'm about at the place to willing get the virus if I can get some kind of gold star certificate / badge certifying that I have the antibodies etc. and can thus go to work, not have to wear a mask for the next so many years etc.

I don't mind the masks, I just don't believe anyone has the right to tell me I can't go to church. I would attend church in any country, illegal or not.

People all over the world are willing to die for their faith in Christ and to stand upon His Name.. here they cower in fear of an illness that kills fewer people than auto accidents (which killed 1.25 million globally in 2013) which has a definite cure, stop driving and no one will die in auto accidents.

The coronavirus presents no more risk than anything else people do every single day of their lives without concern, and I won't stop meeting with my brothers and sisters in Christ over it. If God takes me then my time was up, at least I spent it in the worship of my Savior.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't believe he really thinks he does. It's using it as a hyperbole statement to let everybody know where he stands.

And where does he stand by doing this?

He bluffs, his bluff gets called, he folds. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Exactly! QFT


To tell you the truth I'm so sick of the masks, and the shut downs I'm about at the place to willing get the virus if I can get some kind of gold star certificate / badge certifying that I have the antibodies etc. and can thus go to work, not have to wear a mask for the next so many years etc.

I'm sure if it means that much to you, I'm sure we could arrange a certificate, badge, or some sort of mark that would allow you to buy or sell... which you would take willingly as long as it meant no more masks.

 

[Isilwen]

I'm sure if it means that much to you, I'm sure we could arrange a certificate, badge, or some sort of mark that would allow you to buy or sell... which you would take willingly as long as it meant no more masks.

I don't understand why people don't understand the reasoning for the masks.

I have asthma, so wearing a mask is very hard on me. I have asthma attacks requiring that I use more inhaler more often than before. I nearly fainted the other day because I had to wear two masks, gown and face shield transporting a 71 year old woman with dementia and covid-19 positive back to her nursing home.

See, normally I only have to wear one mask around patients or when required in public off shift. That one mask isn't too protect me, it's to protect others if I am unknowingly carrying the virus. Same with anyone else that needs to wear a mask. It's not to protect you, it's to protect others. I only had to wear two because she was covid-19 positive. There it was to protect her and me.

As a medical worker it's not hard to understand why I must wear a mask. Even though it's hard for me with my own illness. Why can others not be so understanding?

 

[iluvatar5150]

As a medical worker it's not hard to understand why I must wear a mask. Even though it's hard for me with my own illness. Why can others not be so understanding?

Because they don’t like or trust the people who are telling them that it’s a threat.

 

[NotreDame]

The Catholic bishops of Minnesota, not generally known for acts of defiance, have let it be known that the governor of Minnesota does not have the power to close churches or open them. The bishops closed their churches before the governor said a thing about it and they are carefully opening them up again against the will of the governor. We'll see how this one turns out. The bishops are calling the governor's bluff.

I thought it odd that hundreds of people could crowd a big box store and yet a huge cathedral couldn't have anybody in it. It didn't add.

You’re comparing apples to oranges with the “big box store” and churches. Here are the significant differences and each plays a role in how the virus is spread.

1. Same group of people spend more time, an hour or more, in a church. This is generally not true for people in a “big box store.”
2. The amount of time people spend indoors plays a significant role in the spread of Covd-19. Research the spreader event of 1 person infecting 9 people in an hour and a half in Chinese restaurant. The spreader event of one person infecting around 90% percent of co-workers on their side of a room in South Korea. The church choir practice of 2.5 hours that infects 45 people. COVID-19 Superspreader Events in 28 Countries: Critical Patterns and Lessons - Quillette
https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/co...n-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/co...n-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
3. People spend more time in church, and they sing (expels more respiratory droplets) talk for extended periods as they socialize, visit, and pray (more aerosolized respiratory droplets) over a much longer amount of time, an hour or maybe longer, and

4. In close proximity to others and social distancing’s efficacy is eroded because of the amount of time the group collectively spends together singing, praying, shouting.

There’s very little to compare.

 

[NotreDame]

It's not about the economy, it's about the first amendment and rational thought...

If it's perfectly okay, healthy, etc to attend the crowds at walmart, lowes, liquor stores and tobacco shops its perfectly okay to attend any other public place... church included.

The government doesn't dole out the first amendment, they are charged with not interfering with it.

Except we now know, well some of us know, the data doesn’t support those entities as equal. You’re making false comparison based on the evidence. https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

The people who visit liquor stores, Walmart, Lowe’s, tobacco shops, are very transient, many of them do not spend an amount of time in the store anywhere near people spend in a church. The amount of time is significant as more time spent inside, taking the size of the space into consideration, and the amount of talking, laughing, singing, shouting, by an infected person/persons, increases the risk of spreading the disease to those nearby. Especially when one takes into consideration stationary people, like a church, places of employment, restaurants, etcetera.

The link I provided substantiates what I’ve said. A rational thought is to be cognizant of those facts at the link and the logical inferences to be drawn from them.

There’s no 1st Amendment infringement of religious rights here based on the data and Employment Division v Smith.

 

[NotreDame]

It's not to anyone to tell me how to worship. It's between myself and God and cannot be legislated nor dictated..

If your concerned with illness stay home. It's as simple as that.

Correction. The state governors aren’t “telling you how to worship.” You are free to worship with music, with incense, dressed in black sack cloth, to any kind of music, Hillsong, Michael W. Smith, Kari Jobe, at anytime of the day, and read from any religious text you desire.

Temporarily restricting where to worship, specifically narrowed to churches and the like, isn’t a restriction to how you worship.

If your concerned with illness stay home. It's as simple as that

This cavalier attitude is a problem. When a virus has killed 90,000 people in 115 days, it is no longer a “stay at home” for only those concerned with “illness.” Why? Because less than sagacious segment of society who still go out will contract it in greater numbers, spread it more, and this results in more deaths. Like one person infected 54 people in one night by bar hopping, or the one person in Chicago who infected 16 other people as documented by the CDC.

To effectively combat the illness requires getting control on transmission. One way to control transmission is a shutdown, which includes a shutdown of entities where people meet in doors for prolonged periods of time, restaurants, bars, concerts, weddings, churches, etcetera, those very entities which significantly contribute to spreading the disease. This slows the spread and saves lives.

Once transmission is under control, and other criteria are met, those entities can begin to reopen.

Your ritualistic desire to worship in a structure of brick and mortar cannot and does not supersede the public health crisis and the risk of spreading the disease that is posed by churches and entities like them.