Trump declares houses of worship immediately "essential" and will enforce

[Allandavid]

It's not about the economy, it's about the first amendment and rational thought...

If it's perfectly okay, healthy, etc to attend the crowds at walmart, lowes, liquor stores and tobacco shops its perfectly okay to attend any other public place... church included.

The government doesn't dole out the first amendment, they are charged with not interfering with it.

Governments are charged with protecting their citizens...

 

[Hazelelponi]

I agree liquor stores and tobacco shops aren't really necessities and you can older that stuff online. Walmart and to a lesser degree, but still needed, Lowes are necessities as people need to eat and if something happens to their home, they need supplies to repair it. Can these things be ordered online, sure, but I don't want a stranger picking out my meats and vegetables.

Church services can be streamed online, it doesn't need to be in person.

It's not to anyone to tell me how to worship. It's between myself and God and cannot be legislated nor dictated..

If your concerned with illness stay home. It's as simple as that.

 

[Isilwen]

It's not to anyone to tell me how to worship. It's between myself and God and cannot be legislated nor dictated..

If your concerned with illness stay home. It's as simple as that.

So, you're thinking of yourself and not others. Nice to know that.

It's not about you, it's about others. Telling people to stay home is the coward's way of dealing with things instead of taking personal responsibility for yourself!

Your post reeks of me me me and no true concern for the lives of others.

You can and should worship at home. It's as simple as that!

 

[Hazelelponi]

So, you're thinking of yourself and not others. Nice to know that.

It's not about you, it's about others. Telling people to stay home is the coward's way of dealing with things instead of taking personal responsibility for yourself!

Your post reeks of me me me and no true concern for the lives of others.

You can and should worship at home. It's as simple as that!

Yes... the whole Christians following their faith endangers all those around them, who happen to also be Christians following the tenants of their faith.

If your worried, stay home. What you don't have the right to do is tell me I cannot worship my God in the manner I find appropriate to my faith...

 

[Speedwell]

Yes... the whole Christians following their faith endangers all those around them, who happen to also be Christians following the tenants of their faith.

If your worried, stay home. What you don't have the right to do is tell me I cannot worship my God in the manner I find appropriate to my faith...

Even if it means you become a source of contagion for people you come in contact with outside of your church.

 

[Paulos23]

Yes... the whole Christians following their faith endangers all those around them, who happen to also be Christians following the tenants of their faith.

If your worried, stay home. What you don't have the right to do is tell me I cannot worship my God in the manner I find appropriate to my faith...

Except if one of you are the one carrying the virus. Then being in a room with lots of people singing for over an hour, lots of people are going to get infected.

This is not opinion, this is a known fact.

A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead

 

[Isilwen]

Yes... the whole Christians following their faith endangers all those around them, who happen to also be Christians following the tenants of their faith.

If your worried, stay home. What you don't have the right to do is tell me I cannot worship my God in the manner I find appropriate to my faith...

As I said, your posts are all about me me me.

 

[bèlla]

Liquor stores and tobacco shops were left open to appease consumers stuck at home. They expected increased spending on personal goods. But churches didn't fare well. Contributions were down. Despite the surplus and additions to unemployment benefits. The numbers were lower. They needed to open. And here we are.

~Bella

 

[Kentonio]

I agree liquor stores and tobacco shops aren't really necessities and you can older that stuff online.

Can everyone just order alcohol/nicotine online? Because there's millions of people addicted to both, and cutting addicts off from their drug at a time when they are under additional stress anyway could have huge consequences. Which is exactly why most governments exempted both from the lockdown.

 

[variant]

Can everyone just order alcohol/nicotine online? Because there's millions of people addicted to both, and cutting addicts off from their drug at a time when they are under additional stress anyway could have huge consequences. Which is exactly why most governments exempted both from the lockdown.

I honestly think that depriving people of spiritual and religious services might be just as problematic to peoples psyche's.

It's just, problematically, not something you can do alone. I believe the quote is:

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them. Matthew 18:20

So, If I were still practicing I think the best way would be small gatherings.

 

[Isilwen]

Can everyone just order alcohol/nicotine online? Because there's millions of people addicted to both, and cutting addicts off from their drug at a time when they are under additional stress anyway could have huge consequences. Which is exactly why most governments exempted both from the lockdown.

If you're of age, I believe that you can. If not able to purchase online, gas stations, WAWA, and 7-11 were still open and deemed essential.

 

[Kentonio]

I honestly think that depriving people of spiritual and religious services might be just as problematic to peoples psyche's.

It's just, problematically, not something you can do alone. I believe the quote is:

For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them. Matthew 18:20

So, If I were still practicing I think the best way would be small gatherings.

You’re not cut off from religion if a building is closed. Not only do you have the whole personal aspect which no-one can take away, but you have an infinite number of resources online and elsewhere. Removing an addicts drug however can have hugely devastating consequences including leading to a huge rise in domestic abuse.

 

[variant]

You’re not cut off from religion if a building is closed. Not only do you have the whole personal aspect which no-one can take away, but you have an infinite number of resources online and elsewhere. Removing an addicts drug however can have hugely devastating consequences including leading to a huge rise in domestic abuse.

No, you'd be cut off from a lot of the social aspect of it, which, is a lot of the point of the whole experience. While people don't have substance dependence here, I do think people depend on that aspect of religion quite a bit.

I get that we're all suffering at least a bit from the lack of normal socialization. It's just I would rather not ignore, or dismiss people when they are telling me what is important to them in a way I can empathize with...

 

[High Fidelity]

I wonder if the voters he will gain by this stunt will be offset by the deaths caused by this stunt.

This will lead to deaths.

 

[Kaon]

Says if liquor stores and abortion clinics are essential, churches are essential; that we need more prayer, not less.

Will all types of churches be allowed to be open?

How will we determine which "churches" are essential?

Who will enforce the essentiality of (particular) churches?


This is perfectly dangerous territory; arguably the order should not have included churches at all. Besides, not all of us worship the same god - not even all Christians worship the same god. So, whose god (or deus autem non existentium) will get priority?

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Hooray for pandering.

LOLOL

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I wonder if the voters he will gain by this stunt will be offset by the deaths caused by this stunt.

This will lead to deaths.

No, it won’t.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

If a church wants to defy the orders of the governor, that's on them, but my point is that Trump cannot override the governors. He does not have that kind of power. Even though he repeatedly thinks he does.

He can and he did.

 

[eclipsenow]

It's not about the economy

It is, because this virus may kill a decent number of workers and America will lose all that human capital they could have otherwise enjoyed if they'd just kept them alive a few more months until a viable treatment, cure, or vaccine arrived.

If it's perfectly okay, healthy, etc to attend the crowds

It's not.

The government doesn't dole out the first amendment, they are charged with not interfering with it.

There's the amendments, then there's the basic premise of the amendments, the Constitution which arrived after the Declaration of Independence. Note the order - LIFE first, then Liberty as the quest for LIFE allows. This is only temporary. If America had locked down early enough and hard enough, you might be slowly easing out of lockdown with hardly any cases at all as Australia is. You might also have saved the 35,000 lives that study concluded.

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness - Wikipedia

 

[Kaon]

I wonder if the voters he will gain by this stunt will be offset by the deaths caused by this stunt.

This will lead to deaths.

Forget the deaths: this is a perfect civil unrest recipe and the dissolving of religion. The latter may not be that bad to you (and really, to me either), but it will be replaced with the same paradigm we see currently - under different name(s). SSDD. I see this as an excellent way to cause even more destabilization in the States.

And, then there is the risk of covid now, and when it comes back.

I don’t see how opening churches helps the economy in any meaningful way. If it serves to spread the virus it’ll end up doing more harm than good to have them open.

Many churches are big business; they pull in a lot of money, and those persons that make decent to ridiculous salaries of non-taxable income will [hopefully] put that money back into the economy and stimulate it with non-negligible purchases. They contribute to government - even in operations.

Money is barely moving because people are scared, and saving it for when it gets worse. However, people will tithe and donate - as they feel it is a duty, or a service for humanity. This sentiment is what is being exploited, unfortunately: the money moves from idle "coffers" and into the market with the churches as the middle party. The economy is stimulated, the current figurehead can gain a larger constituency for being the president that stood up to a virus and "kept the faith". It's actually a genius move in the short term (there are only six months before elections); I keep saying this man is an excellent demagogue.
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