Trump Can Be Sued For Inciting Jan. 6, Appeals Court Rules

[JustOneWay]

Trump Can Be Sued For Inciting Jan. 6, Appeals Court Rules

The ruling, striking down Trump’s claims he has “presidential immunity,” could help the criminal cases against him.

www.forbes.com

As it should be. A President has immunity for his actions related to his job, but campaigning does not fall under immunity. Looks like he will be receiving scores of lawsuits now.

 

[Bradskii]

Trump Can Be Sued For Inciting Jan. 6, Appeals Court Rules

The ruling, striking down Trump’s claims he has “presidential immunity,” could help the criminal cases against him.

www.forbes.com

As it should be. A President has immunity for his actions related to his job, but campaigning does not fall under immunity. Looks like he will be receiving scores of lawsuits now.

From the link:

'Judges noted in the 3-0 ruling that they’re ruling against Trump “at this stage in the proceeding” and the ex-president will still have a further chance to make his case, but struck down Trump’s claims that he has presidential immunity because he was trying to overturn the 2020 election while he was president, even though his actions were as a political candidate, rather than an official part of his presidential duties.'

That I don't get. Rather than say 'I did nothing wrong' he is saying 'Yeah, I did it. But you can't charge me for doing it'.

 

[JustOneWay]

From the link:

'Judges noted in the 3-0 ruling that they’re ruling against Trump “at this stage in the proceeding” and the ex-president will still have a further chance to make his case, but struck down Trump’s claims that he has presidential immunity because he was trying to overturn the 2020 election while he was president, even though his actions were as a political candidate, rather than an official part of his presidential duties.'

That I don't get. Rather than say 'I did nothing wrong' he is saying 'Yeah, I did it. But you can't charge me for doing it'.

He suggested injecting disinfectants during the pandemic. I didn't get that but realized he will say whatever is on his mind regardless of the consequences. He believed he had immunity because he found a lawyer who told him he was immune, and it was what he wanted to hear.

 

[Bradskii]

He suggested injecting disinfectants during the pandemic. I didn't get that but realized he will say whatever is on his mind regardless of the consequences. He believed he had immunity because he found a lawyer who told him he was immune, and it was what he wanted to hear.

You're right. There appears to be no self reflection. You can see it when he talks. Most people collect their thoughts when they speak. The pauses, the umms and ahhs serve a purpose. Using them gives us that moment where we consider what we're going to say next and how to say it. Very few people can talk publicly, and make sense, without self editing. But with Trump you can see there's no foresight.

People can pull off a stream-of-consciousness speech if they are well prepared and have the intellect. Trump can't. He repeats himself, he rambles and he often says the first thing that comes into his head. There's no train of thought.

 

[Petros2015]

People can pull off a stream-of-consciousness speech if they are well prepared and have the intellect. Trump can't. He repeats himself, he rambles and he often says the first thing that comes into his head. There's no train of thought.

And faced with an unending stream of this, the rational mind attempting to engage him eventually just gives up, lies back, and thinks of Trump.

I've found earplugs work though.

 

[Bradskii]

And faced with an unending stream of this, the rational mind attempting to engage him eventually just gives up, lies back, and thinks of Trump.

I've found earplugs work though.

I dunno. It's hard not to slow down and look when there's a car crash actually happening.

 

[Pommer]

People can pull off a stream-of-consciousness speech if they are well prepared and have the intellect. Trump can't. He repeats himself, he rambles and he often says the first thing that comes into his head. There's no train of thought.

I enjoy seeing well reasoned, pithy posts that I vehemently disagree with but they’ve been fewer and farther between in the past few years; you’ve described his voter base when you say “he rambles and repeats himself”.
Some are just angry but have forgotten what it is that they’re angry (really) about, but know that they’ve hitched their wagons to the Trump train and whatever he does will be just fine with them because they’re not the ones who “voted wrong” in 2020. By gum.

 

[USincognito]

That I don't get. Rather than say 'I did nothing wrong' he is saying 'Yeah, I did it. But you can't charge me for doing it'

He thought he had unlimited power as President, that he could do anything he wanted and be criminally immune and that much of that power remained with him despite being ousted.

 

[Bradskii]

I enjoy seeing well reasoned, pithy posts that I vehemently disagree with but they’ve been fewer and farther between in the past few years; you’ve described his voter base when you say “he rambles and repeats himself”.
Some are just angry but have forgotten what it is that they’re angry (really) about, but know that they’ve hitched their wagons to the Trump train and whatever he does will be just fine with them because they’re not the ones who “voted wrong” in 2020. By gum.

There's also this paranoia about never admitting that they are wrong.

 

[Bradskii]

He thought he had unlimited power as President, that he could do anything he wanted and be criminally immune...

You'd think that that obvious fact would dissuade anyone with an IQ higher than ambient room temperature from ever voting for him.

 

[USincognito]

You'd think that that obvious fact would dissuade anyone with an IQ higher than ambient room temperature from ever voting for him.

As some of us have been noting, many of his most ardently faithful supporters have a major disconnect from reality.

 

[Pommer]

There's also this paranoia about never admitting that they are wrong.

No wonder they’re mad!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Trump Can Be Sued For Inciting Jan. 6, Appeals Court Rules

The ruling, striking down Trump’s claims he has “presidential immunity,” could help the criminal cases against him.

www.forbes.com

As it should be. A President has immunity for his actions related to his job, but campaigning does not fall under immunity. Looks like he will be receiving scores of lawsuits now.

Obviously campaigning doesn't fall under immunity, as they investigated his campaign for years, even after it ended....and as I recall, tried really hard to get him on some nonsense related to hush money he paid to a woman he had an affair with....as a campaign violation.

Incitement however has a pretty high legal standard....though I'm sure he's going to be charged. Just because a case isn't likely to win hasn't stopped the left from trying....just like a lack of evidence doesn't stop them from investigating.

 

[A2SG]

Obviously campaigning doesn't fall under immunity, as they investigated his campaign for years, even after it ended....and as I recall, tried really hard to get him on some nonsense related to hush money he paid to a woman he had an affair with....as a campaign violation.

Well, to be fair, if she were paid out of campaign funds, that would be a campaign violation.

Incitement however has a pretty high legal standard....though I'm sure he's going to be charged. Just because a case isn't likely to win hasn't stopped the left from trying....just like a lack of evidence doesn't stop them from investigating.

Um, I think you've confused Trump's legal woes with the GOP attempts to find something to impeach President Biden for. The many, many indictments Trump is facing all have tons of evidence.

-- A2SG, and he's been found guilty of at least a couple of things, so far anyway.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

You'd think that that obvious fact would dissuade anyone with an IQ higher than ambient room temperature from ever voting for him.

I think most people wouldn't vote for him....if...

1. The Republicans ran someone else with a hint of popularity.
2. Joe Biden wasn't the opposition.

Or even....

3. If Biden had managed to accomplish some things or even just do a moderately average job regarding the welfare of the country compared to the state of the nation he inherited. Things were really bad then, and to the average person, he either hasn't really improved them or made them worse.

When you throw the fact that Trump has been facing case after case after case...and still hasn't been convicted of a crime, people tend to see it as political persecution and it makes him look heroic to them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, to be fair, if she were paid out of campaign funds, that would be a campaign violation.

Yeah...because he didn't report it?

I forget how that accusation went...

Um, I think you've confused Trump's legal woes with the GOP attempts to find something to impeach President Biden for.

Nope.

The many, many indictments Trump is facing all have tons of evidence.

I haven't seen the evidence yet....just some of what he's allegedly done.

I have however seen the vast amount of evidence that the Republicans have been able to dig up....thanks to the unheard of number of whistleblowers in this administration. When you consider the Republicans were able to dig up all they have and they haven't been able to start since they won the majority....and the President clearly has the DOJ and FBI protecting him....

And you compare that to the frivolous nature of some of the cases against Trump and endless resources that have been used to prosecute him....yet still no criminal convictions....it looks dirty to a lot of people.

That's a big reason his numbers have been increasing while Biden's keep plummeting. If Biden had focused on improving the lives of citizens who had been devastated by the pandemic, and focused only on serious crimes Trump committed that had considerable evidence of his guilt....I don't think Biden would be in the trouble he's in. A primary would have been a good idea...but lacking that, a debate just to show he's mentally competent would help.....but he's doing neither.

-- A2SG, and he's been found guilty of at least a couple of things, so far anyway.....

Trump's businesses have been found guilty of some business stuff....but I don't recall Trump being convicted of any crimes.

 

[A2SG]

I think most people wouldn't vote for him....if...

1. The Republicans ran someone else with a hint of popularity.
2. Joe Biden wasn't the opposition.

Or even....

3. If Biden had managed to accomplish some things or even just do a moderately average job regarding the welfare of the country compared to the state of the nation he inherited. Things were really bad then, and to the average person, he either hasn't really improved them or made them worse.

When you throw the fact that Trump has been facing case after case after case...and still hasn't been convicted of a crime, people tend to see it as political persecution and it makes him look heroic to them.

Well, to be fair, he has been found guilty of fraud in NY. The case is still continuing to determine liability and sentencing, granted, but his guilt has been determined. And, of course, there have been other guilty verdicts, fraud, defamation, sexual assault.

So it's not like he's never faced a guilty verdict, which makes viewing the dozens of indictments as "political persecution" a bit of a stretch, to be honest.

-- A2SG, not that many would still be willing to make that stretch, regardless of facts......

 

[A2SG]

Yeah...because he didn't report it?

I forget how that accusation went...

Well, Cohen did plead guilty to the campaign finance violation, among other charges.

Nope.

Well, there is evidence in the many charges against Trump, so it's hard to see how you could have meant him.

I haven't seen the evidence yet....just some of what he's allegedly done.

Well, you're not on the discovery list, are you?

But the courts, and grand juries, have seen the evidence, and they felt it was enough to call for the indictments.

I have however seen the vast amount of evidence that the Republicans have been able to dig up....thanks to the unheard of number of whistleblowers in this administration. When you consider the Republicans were able to dig up all they have and they haven't been able to start since they won the majority....and the President clearly has the DOJ and FBI protecting him....

Well, the House's own witnesses have said there is no evidence, so I wonder at what you've seen.

And you compare that to the frivolous nature of some of the cases against Trump and endless resources that have been used to prosecute him....yet still no criminal convictions....it looks dirty to a lot of people.

There have been a few guilty verdicts so far, but a large number of indictments have yet to be tried in court.

That's a big reason his numbers have been increasing while Biden's keep plummeting. If Biden had focused on improving the lives of citizens who had been devastated by the pandemic, and focused only on serious crimes Trump committed that had considerable evidence of his guilt....I don't think Biden would be in the trouble he's in. A primary would have been a good idea...but lacking that, a debate just to show he's mentally competent would help.....but he's doing neither.

To be fair, I'm not defending Biden. I'd love to see the democrats run a better candidate (Corey Booker for example, or Sherrod Brown), but if Biden remains the nominee (as seems more than likely), he still maintains the one crucial qualification that will guarantee my vote: he ain't Trump.

Trump's businesses have been found guilty of some business stuff....but I don't recall Trump being convicted of any crimes.

Trump, personally, along with his sons have been found guilty of fraud in the current ongoing NY fraud case.

Trump was found personally guilty of defamation and sexual assault against E. Jean Carroll.

But yes, you are correct that the Trump Organization has been found guilty of fraud in several cases...but who runs that organization? Or do you contend that Trump is a hands-off, laissez-faire kind of leader?

-- A2SG, Trump only hires the best people,,,,,right?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, Cohen did plead guilty to the campaign finance violation, among other charges.

True.

Well, there is evidence in the many charges against Trump, so it's hard to see how you could have meant him.

Well the Russian/Trump campaign was largely predicated on word of mouth from an untested source, which doesn't typically trigger a full investigation. Still, they managed to get Manafort for sharing polling data...which seems rather petty, since it's widely available once polls are published. Other than that, there was basically no evidence of collusion despite looking high and low and spying on him and shaking down everyone in his circle.

As to the cases unresolved...I don't know exactly what they have but let's hope it's more than the Russian investigation.

Well, you're not on the discovery list, are you?

Nope...are you?
.

But the courts, and grand juries, have seen the evidence, and they felt it was enough to call for the indictments.

They haven't seen all the evidence...just what's required to indict. A low bar.

Well, the House's own witnesses have said there is no evidence, so I wonder at what you've seen.

Sorry, I don't know who you're speaking of here...

I think the Republicans decided to put up a website outlining the evidence and how it's all connected.

Biden Family Investigation - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

oversight.house.gov

Feel free to peruse....it really is impressive when you consider the FBI and DOJ have done their best to cover for him since before he stepped into office. They aren't professional investigators after all...and they also have many other responsibilities as elected officials to tend to in addition to doing the job the FBI should be doing (and did when Trump was the subject of investigation, they were willing to bend the laws to continue that one).

There have been a few guilty verdicts so far, but a large number of indictments have yet to be tried in court.

What crime has Trump been convicted of?

To be fair, I'm not defending Biden. I'd love to see the democrats run a better candidate (Corey Booker for example, or Sherrod Brown), but if Biden remains the nominee (as seems more than likely), he still maintains the one crucial qualification that will guarantee my vote: he ain't Trump.

That's a pretty low bar....and when one considers how poor a job Biden had done. It makes one consider just how bad a president has to be before you vote for Trump?

Trump, personally, along with his sons have been found guilty of fraud in the current ongoing NY fraud case.

I read they were found liable...this is probably true since you have stated that the case was ongoing, not over.

Trump was found personally guilty of defamation and sexual assault against E. Jean Carroll.

He was found guilty of defamation, a civil offense. I was asking about crimes.

But yes, you are correct that the Trump Organization has been found guilty of fraud in several cases...but who runs that organization? Or do you contend that Trump is a hands-off, laissez-faire kind of leader?

I know the difference between a person being found guilty of fraud and a business found guilty of fraud.

I appreciate you supporting my claim though.

 

[A2SG]

True.

So campaign finance violation was a valid charge. At least, against Cohen, Trump's lawyer.

Well the Russian/Trump campaign was largely predicated on word of mouth from an untested source, which doesn't typically trigger a full investigation. Still, they managed to get Manafort for sharing polling data...which seems rather petty, since it's widely available once polls are published. Other than that, there was basically no evidence of collusion despite looking high and low and spying on him and shaking down everyone in his circle.

Well, to be fair, the Mueller report did generate 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and compelling evidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Just not enough to bring to court and make a strong enough case against Trump.

So there was evidence. Just not enough of it to ensure a conviction.

On the other hand, there does seem to be enough evidence behind the the over 90 indictments Trump is currently under.

As to the cases unresolved...I don't know exactly what they have but let's hope it's more than the Russian investigation.

It has been in NY. And it was enough to secure all those indictments.

Nope...are you?

Nope. But I'm not saying the evidence that clearly exists doesn't.

They haven't seen all the evidence...just what's required to indict. A low bar.

If it was enough to indict...it wasn't nonexistent.

So the evidence of Trump's criminal activity exists.

Sorry, I don't know who you're speaking of here...

It was detailed in the story I linked to.

I think the Republicans decided to put up a website outlining the evidence and how it's all connected.

Biden Family Investigation - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

oversight.house.gov

Feel free to peruse....it really is impressive when you consider the FBI and DOJ have done their best to cover for him since before he stepped into office. They aren't professional investigators after all...and they also have many other responsibilities as elected officials to tend to in addition to doing the job the FBI should be doing (and did when Trump was the subject of investigation, they were willing to bend the laws to continue that one).

Tell you what, when the GOP is able to compile enough evidence to impeach President Biden, we'll talk.

What crime has Trump been convicted of?

He's been found guilty of fraud, defamation and sexual assault. More charges are pending.

That's a pretty low bar....and when one considers how poor a job Biden had done. It makes one consider just how bad a president has to be before you vote for Trump?

They'd have to be worse than Trump. So far, no other president or presidential candidate has tried to subvert the entire function of government just because they lost an election and their ego was bruised. I don't see that action being surpassed any time soon.

I read they were found liable...this is probably true since you have stated that the case was ongoing, not over.

Yes. The judge found Trump and his sons guilty in summary judgment. The ongoing case is to determine sentencing and punishment. Guilt has already been decided.

He was found guilty of defamation, a civil offense. I was asking about crimes.

Sexual assault isn't a crime? What about fraud?

I know the difference between a person being found guilty of fraud and a business found guilty of fraud.

I would hope so. And companies are run by people. If a company is guilty of fraud, some person committed the fraud. We know Trump is personally guilty of fraud himself, just as the company he leads is also guilty of fraud. Not hard to draw a conclusion there.

I appreciate you supporting my claim though.

Not quite, dude. Your claim: "Trump's businesses have been found guilty of some business stuff....but I don't recall Trump being convicted of any crimes."

The first part may be correct (even if you downplay fraud as "some business stuff"), but as to the second part, your memory is faulty. Trump has been found guilty on several occasions.

-- A2SG, with more to come, no doubt......