• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

Status
Not open for further replies.

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Saul the pharisee observes Torah, he is no law breaker, he has not rebuilt that which he destroyed.
But Saul, is no longer Saul.

Saul is now Paul. Paul has the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Paul CHOSE to not be Saul anymore, because Christ is who He is now.

In Christ, Saul is no more.

He is Paul.

Saul is who HE WAS.

Paul is who HE IS.
 
Upvote 0

kingskid

Kid of the Most High
Jan 19, 2002
428
81
VA
✟1,916.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Jason, there are record of people being converted to Christianity that not only did not know Jesus as Savior but simply knew Jesus Christ as a name.
John 1:12-13 KJV
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I was reading about a muslim conversion just a bit ago who only knew the name of Jesus Christ.

I am not sure where your doubts stem from, but I know there is power in the name of Jesus Christ.

Far be it for me to defend the Name of the Lord. Jason if you wish to continue down the mere name route, you will have to do it on your own.
 
Upvote 0

mercy1061

Newbie
Nov 26, 2011
2,646
123
✟26,224.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Well, I am born again spiritually and I am changed and I am not the man I used to be. I just know the reality of the situation of how real life works involving human behavior. Life teaches us that if you take away the consequences of something, then people are going to do whatever they please if they know there are no conseqences in doing that particular thing.


...
Do you considef it a sin to break one of the ten commandments?
 
Upvote 0

mercy1061

Newbie
Nov 26, 2011
2,646
123
✟26,224.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
But Saul, is no longer Saul.

Saul is now Paul. Paul has the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Paul CHOSE to not be Saul anymore, because Christ is who He is now.

In Christ, Saul is no more.

He is Paul.

Saul is who HE WAS.

Paul is who HE IS.
Where is it written he changed his name?
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Jason,

You are way too worried about if you sin or not.

Your entire faith is based upon it.

You need to see that you are more than your sin, or lack of it as you think.

The devil has you playing a game of good son. But none of us are good. Not one.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Saul the pharisee observes Torah, he is no law breaker, he has not rebuilt that which he destroyed.

Could Saul the Pharisee observe the moral law? Romans7:8
So if a person observed Torah but failed to observe the moral law they are not a law breaker, is that what you are saying??

No, Paul the Christian did not rebuild that which he had destroyed, absolutely
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,686
7,908
...
✟1,323,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jason, there are record of people being converted to Christianity that not only did not know Jesus as Savior but simply knew Jesus Christ as a name.
John 1:12-13 KJV
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I was reading about a muslim conversion just a bit ago who only knew the name of Jesus Christ.

I am not sure where your doubts stem from, but I know there is power in the name of Jesus Christ.
I am not denying in the power of the name of Jesus at all. I am not denying that a belief in Jesus and a belief in His death, burial, and resurrection is not important. But if that is all you got your entire life with either a temporary change or a no change at all, then that belief means nothing. I merely believe in the Jesus as described in the Bible. Belief in Jesus as one's Savior is followed by God directed works done in your life (Which is the proof in the pudding that Christ lives within you; For Jesus is the source of a person's life or salvation (1 John 5:12)).



...
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,686
7,908
...
✟1,323,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Jason, please respond to the emboldened in the post I replied to of yours, it was only one question, I will place it again here in case you missed it:

Do you claim to look to each and every literal command of Christ in the Gospels and obey them all, or do you ignore some of them?

I am sure you will forthrightly respond, as you asked me if I ignored some commands of Christ
Thank you
I am busy today. So my time is limited in my replies back. I was also replying to "Kings-kid" first, too.




....
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I am busy today. So my time is limited in my replies back. I was replying to Kings kid first, too.




....
Well I will look forward to when you have some time to simply reply yes or no as to whether you obey each and every literal command of Christ in the gospels or whether you ignore some
 
Upvote 0

kingskid

Kid of the Most High
Jan 19, 2002
428
81
VA
✟1,916.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am not denying in the power of the name of Jesus at all. I am not denying that a belief in Jesus and a belief in His death, burial, and resurrection is not important. But if that is all you got your entire life with either a temporary change or a no change at all, then that belief means nothing. I merely believe in the Jesus as described in the Bible. Belief in Jesus as one's Savior is followed by God directed works done in your life (Which is the proof in the pudding that Christ lives within you; For Jesus is the source of a person's life or salvation (1 John 5:12)).



...
Ok Jason. You don't have to defend yourself. The Lord knows our hearts.

I often tell myself I always do what pleases God. Not that it is I, but Christ in me.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,686
7,908
...
✟1,323,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Well I will look forward to when you have some time to simply reply yes or no as to whether you obey each and every literal command of Christ in the gospels or whether you ignore some
There are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). I believe I do those Commands that do not lead unto spiritual death. But I do desire and pray so as to do all that He Commands, though (Even those New Testament Commands that do not have spiritual death consequences attached to them).


...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,686
7,908
...
✟1,323,209.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ok Jason. You don't have to defend yourself. The Lord knows our hearts.
I am just strongly against Once Saved Always Saved. I find such a teaching to be a real problem within the churches today.

I often tell myself I always do what pleases God. Not that it is I, but Christ in me.
It makes my heart glad that you would say that. I am glad you do what you think pleases God. I am also glad that you say it is Christ working in you and not yourself alone.

...
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). I believe I do those Commands that do not lead unto spiritual death. But I do desire and pray so as to do all that He Commands, though (Even those New Testament Commands that do not have spiritual death consequences attached to them).


...
I am grateful for an honest acknowledgement you do not keep all of Christs literal commands. I have never met any christian who has. But I have known many christians who insist everyone else must
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As
There are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). I believe I do those Commands that do not lead unto spiritual death. But I do desire and pray so as to do all that He Commands, though (Even those New Testament Commands that do not have spiritual death consequences attached to them).


...
I very forthrightly answered all the questions you asked of me in your post, can you also answer mine as to whether you believe Hebrews 10:16&17 specifically concerns the new covenant alone, or also the old one
Thank you
 
Upvote 0

kingskid

Kid of the Most High
Jan 19, 2002
428
81
VA
✟1,916.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am just strongly against Once Saved Always Saved. I find such a teaching to be a real problem within the churches today.

It makes my heart glad that you would say that. I am glad you do what you think pleases God. I am also glad that you say it is Christ working in you and not yourself alone.

...

I am not against OSAS because I feel the Lord has more power than any doctrine.
I often think believers that still sin are just not converted yet. Kind of like how the Lord told Peter that satan desired to have him before his conversion.
Luke 22:31-32 KJV
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
 
Upvote 0

mercy1061

Newbie
Nov 26, 2011
2,646
123
✟26,224.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
The entire New Testament reflects that he is no longer Saul.
You failed to answer my question. When did he legally change his name? When did he say my name is no longer Saul? If my name is Michael, but my friends call me Mike, my legal or government name is still Michael. I have not changed my name.
 
Upvote 0

mercy1061

Newbie
Nov 26, 2011
2,646
123
✟26,224.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
There are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18). I believe I do those Commands that do not lead unto spiritual death. But I do desire and pray so as to do all that He Commands, though (Even those New Testament Commands that do not have spiritual death consequences attached to them).


...
The wages of sin is death, so all sin lead to death. Saul the Pharisee said death, not spiritual death! You love adding words to manipulate scriptures; trying to make the ancient scriptures say what you want them to say! You labor in vain because it wont work! Sabbath is approaching, you should cease and rest from your vain labor; toiling and working the ancient scriptures. The sin was physical, because he said if you SEE a brother commit a sin not unto death, pray for him, G-d shall give him life. The sin is physical in nature, thus the punishment must also be physical. For example, if you drive your car past the speed limit, that sin does not lead unto death. But if you drive your car off a very high cliff into the ocean, that sin is unto death.
 
Upvote 0

mercy1061

Newbie
Nov 26, 2011
2,646
123
✟26,224.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Could Saul the Pharisee observe the moral law? Romans7:8
So if a person observed Torah but failed to observe the moral law they are not a law breaker, is that what you are saying??

No, Paul the Christian did not rebuild that which he had destroyed, absolutely
There is only one law. Saul the Pharisee was blameless concerning the law. This is what you should understand: Yeshua did not destroy the Jewish temple, so he does not become a lawbreaker if he rebuilds it up again in three days. You recall David's tent? Saul the Pharisee was a tentmaker when he preached the gospel good news
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You failed to answer my question. When did he legally change his name? When did he say my name is no longer Saul? If my name is Michael, but my friends call me Mike, my legal or government name is still Michael. I have not changed my name.
I think Jesus changed it. And of course, Paul was fine with that.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.