True Believing Christian

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Landon, rest assured that Catholicism is a false religion! I have studied the Protestant and Catholic doctrines, and I can assure you that, if you are a Baptist, you are following the true faith. Believe in everything in which the Baptists believe, and you will be saved; believe in everything in which the Catholics believe, and I cannot be sure you'll really be saved...

I hope you are aware of the falsities that the Catholic church preaches. From salvation by works to priests as mediators, from the Pope's infallibility to honour to the Saints and Mary, from the Apocrypha to the Purgatory, from Mary's immaculate conception to her perpetual virginity... Where shall I start? It is my firm belief that Catholics are wrong in all these things. Rest assured: Catholicism is not even a true religion, much less the only true religion!

So, I understand that this friend told you that Catholicism is the only true religion, and no Protestant is a true Christian. Wow! I must confess I had never heard this coming from a Catholic! I have heard that from Jehovah's Witnesses, but not from Catholics!

Rest assured: she is absolutely wrong (the proof being that I am a Christian and not a Catholic ). That you should reject the True Church of Christ for not being a Catholic! Jesus did not come to found Catholicism, but Christianity. We must follow the Bible, not the church. The church is not perfect. In order for Catholics to believe that, from their foundation, they have always followed the truth, they must believe that all popes are infallible. Just think how ridiculous that is! The church is made up of humans who fail. You cannot say that all popes throughout the history of the Church have always been chosen by God and never failed in guiding the Church. Popes are chosen by humans, not God. The pope is not infallible.

The Catholic Church is not infallible. In fact, anyone who believes that it is — like your friend — must believe that it is OK to burn people to death only because they believe in different things from you, because that is what the Catholic Church did some five centuries ago.

How can you respond? Good question! Maybe you can respond using what I have just said. Ask her this: ‘How do you explain that the “Only True Infallible Church of Christ” burnt people to death only because they disagreed with the church?’ Maybe then you can proceed to talk about all that nonsense that the Catholic Church believes in: salvation by works, Purgatory, priests as mediators, etc., and confront her with biblical truth. Ask your Baptist friends to help you!

I hope this has been helpful!

This horrific rant is definitely not the way to start of any conversion if you're aiming at understanding and in fellowship come to understand each others different views.

I would definitely not lash out against any Baptist with such ignorance as shown in this thread with a grand final in the post I quoted.

Talk to others with respect and in question form is my advice.
If an Baptist believes such and such I'm more interested in getting to know their reasoning for it than to shoot at them.

There is nothing wrong in questioning why she said what she said or to question why we believe as we do and you are of course free to disagree with Catholicism, but please don't pass judgement or tell us what we believe (which almost exclusively are inaccurate at best) as nothing is more annoying than to be told you're an heretic etc.

This is something we Catholics must keep reminding ourself as well.
Lets pray for one another instead of lying about one another.


God bless.

 

[miamited]

Hello everyone,

I don't know if this is the right place for this, or even if I'm allowed to discuss this on here, but let me tell you a little bit about myself.
I am born and raised Baptist. I used to think I wanted to become a preacher, but now I think God is leading me to other things. For a while, I was looking into Catholicism, but am wanting a true relationship with Christ and a true desire for the Word of God. As I am now attending a very prominent Baptist college, I have found a wonderful body of believers around me.
Today, I was texting back and forth with one of my Catholic friends. This is exactly what she told me, that if I really am rejecting Catholicism that I am not a true believing Christian. She also said that I "reject the true Church of Christ and thus do not really worship the One God."
Now, there are many things that I do like about the Catholic faith, but this had to be one of the biggest turn offs for me, where if I was not Catholic I am somehow condemned.

If anyone can tell me how to respond to this, or any way to further my relationship with Christ and to get any doubts out of my head, it would be a blessing.

Thank y'all

Hi landon,

I guess I'd probably respond:

"I appreciate your understanding of this issue, but suffice to say that I am not in agreement. I have studied the Scriptures and I have studied the practices of what is called the 'Catholic church'. I am not assured that the two teach the same things. I am wholly convicted that the 'church' spoken of in the Scriptures is not the 'church' represented by the Catholic denomination. For me, the church, is the body of born again believers who have God as their Father. Those who love God, His Son, His Spirit and His word are the 'church'. Some of these can be found in most all earthly denominations of the groups that meet to worship Him. I am wholly convicted that on the day of God's judgment, when the names of those found in the Lamb's Book of Life are read, that list of names will not be defined as only those who were members of the RCC, Baptist, Methodist, or any other worldly division that men have determined is the 'church'. But rather, will be a broad cross section of people that likely will come out of many of those 'churches' and possibly even some who come from no formal earthly 'church' at all.

My Savior said that the first and greatest law is to love God with all that we are. I believe that those who so love God will be saved on the day of God's judgment.

God bless you.
landon"

Of course, that's assuming that your understanding of the 'church' is the same as mine.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

This horrific rant is definitely not the way to start of any conversion if you're aiming at understanding and in fellowship come to understand each others different views.

I would definitely not lash out against any Baptist with such ignorance as shown in this thread with a grand final in the post I quoted.

Talk to others with respect and in question form is my advice.
If an Baptist believes such and such I'm more interested in getting to know their reasoning for it than to shoot at them.

There is nothing wrong in questioning why she said what she said or to question why we believe as we do and you are of course free to disagree with Catholicism, but please don't pass judgement or tell us what we believe (which almost exclusively are inaccurate at best) as nothing is more annoying than to be told you're an heretic etc.

This is something we Catholics must keep reminding ourself as well.
Lets pray for one another instead of lying about one another.


God bless.

Allow me to explain: my post was aimed at a Baptist, explaining him why Catholics are wrong — not at a Catholic, explaining why Catholics are wrong. I would take a different approach to a Catholic or a Protestant: to a Protestant, I would assume that he would agree with me, and just show him why the others are wrong; to a Catholic, I would try to make him agree with me, and explain why he is wrong. Therefore, my post was never intended ‘to start any conversion’ — I would have written it differently if I had had that purpose in mind.

With that said, though, allow me to apologise, nevertheless, if I was too strong. My intention was not to produce any ‘horrific rant’, and I owe my sincerest apologies to you, aChildOfMary, if I wrote it in such a way that you would interpret it as conveying any sort of hatred towards Catholics. Again, I am sorry if I was too strong.

However, I maintain the theses I expressed in my previous post. I maintain that Catholicism is false, and I maintain that I cannot be sure whether Catholics are saved (and I keep leaning mostly to the possibility that they are not).

It was not, by any means, my intention that the OP should demonstrate any disrespect towards his Catholic friend. Again, I apologise if I made it seem that this was what I wanted.

What I really think the OP should do is the same thing he should always do whenever he finds someone who disagrees with him in anything: 1) investigate the evidence that demonstrate that he is right and the other person is wrong (in this case, the Bible); and 2) confront the other person with the evidence that proves that he/she is wrong, by asking the right question (normally along the lines of ‘If you believe in... how do you explain that... ?’). This is what I do in any debate.

This is all I had to say. To finalise, allow me to reiterate my apologies (I believe that apologising is never too much ) for any excessive strength which my words may have conveyed.

God bless you too!

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Allow me to explain: my post was aimed at a Baptist, explaining him why Catholics are wrong — not at a Catholic, explaining why Catholics are wrong. I would take a different approach to a Catholic or a Protestant: to a Protestant, I would assume that he would agree with me, and just show him why the others are wrong; to a Catholic, I would try to make him agree with me, and explain why he is wrong. Therefore, my post was never intended ‘to start any conversion’ — I would have written it differently if I had had that purpose in mind.

With that said, though, allow me to apologise, nevertheless, if I was too strong. My intention was not to produce any ‘horrific rant’, and I owe my sincerest apologies to you, aChildOfMary, if I wrote it in such a way that you would interpret it as conveying any sort of hatred towards Catholics. Again, I am sorry if I was too strong.

However, I maintain the theses I expressed in my previous post. I maintain that Catholicism is false, and I maintain that I cannot be sure whether Catholics are saved (and I keep leaning mostly to the possibility that they are not).

It was not, by any means, my intention that the OP should demonstrate any disrespect towards his Catholic friend. Again, I apologise if I made it seem that this was what I wanted.

What I really think the OP should do is the same thing he should always do whenever he finds someone who disagrees with him in anything: 1) investigate the evidence that demonstrate that he is right and the other person is wrong (in this case, the Bible); and 2) confront the other person with the evidence that proves that he/she is wrong, by asking the right question (normally along the lines of ‘If you believe in... how do you explain that... ?’). This is what I do in any debate.

This is all I had to say. To finalise, allow me to reiterate my apologies (I believe that apologising is never too much ) for any excessive strength which my words may have conveyed.

God bless you too!

You should just have known how many time I've apologised to others here at CF over the years, oh I'm a fallen man.

This is the Baptist forum so I may have interfered more than I should have and for that I apologize to you and my brethren at this subforum.

The thing is that it's a slippery slope really, the difference between correcting false accusations thrown in our direction and fall into prozetylation.
The latter I really try my best not to do because I dislike it so much when others do such at OBOB.

The Portuguese Baptist, let's pray together that we will both live to see the kingdom of God with as many of those who love and profess a faith in Jesus regardless of denomination.

Let every tounge that praise the Lord on earth one day do so in front of his throne in heaven.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

Hello everyone,

I don't know if this is the right place for this, or even if I'm allowed to discuss this on here, but let me tell you a little bit about myself.
I am born and raised Baptist. I used to think I wanted to become a preacher, but now I think God is leading me to other things. For a while, I was looking into Catholicism, but am wanting a true relationship with Christ and a true desire for the Word of God. As I am now attending a very prominent Baptist college, I have found a wonderful body of believers around me.
Today, I was texting back and forth with one of my Catholic friends. This is exactly what she told me, that if I really am rejecting Catholicism that I am not a true believing Christian. She also said that I "reject the true Church of Christ and thus do not really worship the One God."
Now, there are many things that I do like about the Catholic faith, but this had to be one of the biggest turn offs for me, where if I was not Catholic I am somehow condemned.

If anyone can tell me how to respond to this, or any way to further my relationship with Christ and to get any doubts out of my head, it would be a blessing.

Thank y'all

If you don't keep the commandments of God by hearing the word of God according to John 14:21kjb then Christ has not manifest himself to you by a vision of him crucified for your sins: which means you have not received his Spirit: and those who have not are none of his.

Jesus is not lying in John 6:40kjb.

 

[miamited]

You should just have known how many time I've apologised to others here at CF over the years, oh I'm a fallen man.

This is the Baptist forum so I may have interfered more than I should have and for that I apologize to you and my brethren at this subforum.

The thing is that it's a slippery slope really, the difference between correcting false accusations thrown in our direction and fall into prozetylation.
The latter I really try my best not to do because I dislike it so much when others do such at OBOB.

The Portuguese Baptist, let's pray together that we will both live to see the kingdom of God with as many of those who love and profess a faith in Jesus regardless of denomination.

Let every tounge that praise the Lord on earth one day do so in front of his throne in heaven.

Hi COM,

I appreciate your response. You seem to obviously be one who doesn't agree with the 'truth' that only those who are a part of the Catholic organization will be saved on the day of God's judgment, but the OP's question is about responding to someone who doesn't see it your way.

He is asking how he should respond to one who is also a part of your denomination, but thinks that membership in that denomination is what 'saves' someone. You, on the other hand, seem to be one who understands that what saves someone is faith in the work of Jesus and believing the truth of God no matter what earthly denominational entity they choose to meet with for corporate worship. I agree with that, but it doesn't answer the OP's question.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Dear Ted,
I think it's best described like this, the church doesn't like the thought of Christians jeopardising their salvation by staying outside of the grace of the church.
As we see it not to ever participate in the sacraments (except baptism) is running a very serious risk of losing out of eternal joy.
Maybe I should've opened my posting in this thread by stressing out that it's due to our love for you that we're concerned about this.

It's more like we know that the safest road to heaven is through the church and that there may be other roads leading there, but that we really don't know for sure how salvation outside of the church is.
So we just want to see you all in heaven

All this being said, lots of Catholics live lives contrary to the faith and will not see heaven.
It's not like all Catholics are saints, trust me.

We shall not judge, we should guide lost sheep's and pray for the world and our brethren.

As for the original question of the OP, it's a bit difficult for me to answer really as I don't know her or her faith tradition.
She might be SSPX for all I know and they refer to themselves as Catholics, but reject the popes post V2 and V2 itself, strange I know...

We should NEVER make any sort of judgement on an individual basis.
We should all remind ourselves of the words of Christ regarding the judgement of others.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

You should just have known how many time I've apologised to others here at CF over the years, oh I'm a fallen man.

This is the Baptist forum so I may have interfered more than I should have and for that I apologize to you and my brethren at this subforum.

The thing is that it's a slippery slope really, the difference between correcting false accusations thrown in our direction and fall into prozetylation.
The latter I really try my best not to do because I dislike it so much when others do such at OBOB.

The Portuguese Baptist, let's pray together that we will both live to see the kingdom of God with as many of those who love and profess a faith in Jesus regardless of denomination.

Let every tounge that praise the Lord on earth one day do so in front of his throne in heaven.

Ah! It's OK. We all fall, once in a while. What matters is that we recognise we have done wrong and apologise. Thank you for understanding me as well!

Indeed, it is against the rules to teach something contrary to the teachings of a certain denomination in that denomination's section. But we understand — since you have apologised, there is no problem. Just be moderate. I honestly have neither the time nor the patience to visit any of the other denominations' sections. Be careful when posting in such places.

Hmm... What is ‘prozetylation’? (I cannot find that word in any dictionary.)

Honestly, I am not sure that I understand your prayer request. I believe that anyone who is a true Christian will be saved. I do not believe there will be a single denomination in Heaven. My problem is not with different denominations, but with those who do not identify as ‘evangelicals’; biblically speaking, I cannot be entirely sure I will see them in Heaven, because I am not sure they hold to the essential core beliefs needed in order to be saved.

Therefore, I propose a slightly different prayer request. I propose that we pray that we may always study God's Word more and more, and that we may find the truth. I think you are wrong, and you think I am wrong. I think we should pray that God's Holy Spirit may show the truth to whichever of us is wrong — that we may keep an open mind in any discussion we get ourselves into, so that we may honestly look for the truth —, and that we may see each other in Heaven.

God bless you!

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Dear Ted,
I think it's best described like this, the church doesn't like the thought of Christians jeopardising their salvation by staying outside of the grace of the church.
As we see it not to ever participate in the sacraments (except baptism) is running a very serious risk of losing out of eternal joy.
Maybe I should've opened my posting in this thread by stressing out that it's due to our love for you that we're concerned about this.

It's more like we know that the safest road to heaven is through the church and that there may be other roads leading there, but that we really don't know for sure how salvation outside of the church is.
So we just want to see you all in heaven

[...]

I am sorry to answer this when it was not directly written to me, but I would just like to say something.

I speak for myself: I am sure that I shall be in Heaven. If you really are going there, rest assured that you shall see me there! And thank you for your love!

The truth is that I feel just the same way about Catholics. I believe that faith alone saves. You believe that one must participate in the sacraments in order to be saved (or that, at least, you cannot be sure that anyone who does not participate will be saved). Meanwhile, I cannot be sure that anyone who believes that faith alone is not sufficient will ever be saved (and I recognise that I lean mostly to the possibility that they will not be saved)...

Therefore, it is solely out of love that I try to show Catholics that, in my opinion, in the light of the Bible, they are wrong — I cannot be sure that Catholics are saved.

I hope this has been helpful.

 

[miamited]

Dear Ted,
I think it's best described like this, the church doesn't like the thought of Christians jeopardising their salvation by staying outside of the grace of the church.
As we see it not to ever participate in the sacraments (except baptism) is running a very serious risk of losing out of eternal joy.
Maybe I should've opened my posting in this thread by stressing out that it's due to our love for you that we're concerned about this.

It's more like we know that the safest road to heaven is through the church and that there may be other roads leading there, but that we really don't know for sure how salvation outside of the church is.
So we just want to see you all in heaven

All this being said, lots of Catholics live lives contrary to the faith and will not see heaven.
It's not like all Catholics are saints, trust me.

We shall not judge, we should guide lost sheep's and pray for the world and our brethren.

As for the original question of the OP, it's a bit difficult for me to answer really as I don't know her or her faith tradition.
She might be SSPX for all I know and they refer to themselves as Catholics, but reject the popes post V2 and V2 itself, strange I know...

We should NEVER make any sort of judgement on an individual basis.
We should all remind ourselves of the words of Christ regarding the judgement of others.

Hi COM,

Well, that's going to depend on whether it is true that the 'church' offers grace. It's my understanding that grace comes only from God. The 'church' as you seem to be defining it, is only a place where believers meet. There is no grace found in the 'church', only community.

As I see it, there aren't really any 'sacraments' per se. There are things that the Scriptures tell us that we should do. One is that when we partake of the communion offered as believers with other believers is that we do it with the right purpose of heart. We use that time to be deeply reflective of what Jesus did for us. That he gave his life in great pain and anguish for the forgiveness of our sin before his Father. That he came to tell us in actual speech as someone who knows the Father, what is expected of us and who God is. That he loves us.

As to the regularity of the practice of communion, the Scriptures never discuss it. They just tell us that when we come together to enjoin with each other in communion that we do so with the right heart. I honestly find no evidence that the first disciples, as they began to spread the good news of our salvation accomplished through the work of our Lord, likely practiced any daily, weekly or monthly time of communion with one another.

Another is baptism. Baptism is only a symbol that we are asked to participate in, but if not coupled with true and abiding faith in God, it's just a bath.

Apart from those two practices, I'm not much inclined to believe that there are such things as man describes as 'sacraments' that we must practice to be righteous before our God. We certainly must strive to live a life worthy of the calling that we have received, but that's because we know and understand our Father's desires for us. How He wants us to live this life that we live upon the earth. This life that He has given us that we may come to know and understand and trust and believe in Him.

I don't particularly agree that the safest road to heaven is through the 'church' as you define 'church'. I do agree that the only road to eternal life, which btw will not be in heaven, is that we are a part of the 'church' as I define it. Merely a member of the body of people who are called out to love our gracious and loving Father. A member of the body of people living upon the earth at any given time who have understood and applied the truth of God's desires for us and commands to us. For me, that is the 'church'. It is not contained by some ecclesiastical body of some denomination of people.

As far as making any sort of judgment against an individual, while the issue brought up by the person whose views the OP is seeking to find answers for, may well use pronouns that infer plurality, the intention is obvious that it speaks to an individual's not finding eternal life because they are not a part of the ecclesiastical body to which they claim to belong. I don't agree.

Perhaps your work would be more beneficial if you were to just simply agree with the OP that the comments he is asking about are not in line with what your ecclesiastical body professes to be the truth. However, I get the distinct impression that, while your words say that they are not, your heart says that they are. I could, of course, be wrong in that assessment.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[royal priest]

I believe that anyone who is a true Christian will be saved. I do not believe there will be a single denomination in Heaven. My problem is not with different denominations, but with those who do not identify as ‘evangelicals’; biblically speaking, I cannot be entirely sure I will see them in Heaven, because I am not sure they hold to the essential core beliefs needed in order to be saved.

Therefore, I propose a slightly different prayer request. I propose that we pray that we may always study God's Word more and more, and that we may find the truth. I think you are wrong, and you think I am wrong. I think we should pray that God's Holy Spirit may show the truth to whichever of us is wrong — that we may keep an open mind in any discussion we get ourselves into, so that we may honestly look for the truth —, and that we may see each other in Heaven.

God bless you!

You reminded me of something John Newton is quoted as saying, "If I ever reach heaven I expect to find three wonders there. First, to meet some I had not thought to see there; second, to miss some I had expected to see there and third, the greatest wonder of all, to find myself there."

 

[miamited]

Hi again COM,

I was rereading posts this morning and just wanted to offer up a short comment regarding what you have written in your last post. You wrote:

It's more like we know that the safest road to heaven is through the church and that there may be other roads leading there, but that we really don't know for sure how salvation outside of the church is.
So we just want to see you all in heaven

I would encourage you, and I say this in love with respect for you, to set your understanding of the things of God on what He has told us, rather than on what some ecclesiastical body on the earth has told you is the proper and correct way to define and understand the things of the Scriptures. I would really encourage you to study up on the things that Jesus said to the ecclesiastical body of Judaism when he was here. Jesus was not kind to them and continually railed at them that they just didn't understand the things of God. In his speaking to Nicodemus he asks with a note, to me, of incredulity that he portrays himself as a teacher of Israel, yet doesn't understand about being born of the Spirit. He outright condemns several leaders of Israel that in their zeal to convert and then teach lies about God, that they literally turn their converts into dogs of hell worse than themselves. Get what he says here! He is calling the leaders dogs of hell and those they convert.

I would just sincerely encourage you to step back from all the clutter of man decided and derived contrivances and definitions and understandings of the Scriptures and go to them yourself. God's word promises that He will be found by those who 'diligently' search for Him. But, I believe, that this particular teaching of Jesus to the leaders in Israel is warning us away from 'diligently' searching for God in the understandings and definitions of others. God wrote His Scriptures to man and He knows the heart and mind of man thoroughly. He wrote them to be understood by man. Not some special body of a group of men, but by each individual person who would set his heart to 'diligently' search for Him.

It would seem that you, much like those converts to Judaism that Jesus referred to as 'dogs of hell', have established in your heart that the hierarchical body of the ecclesiastical body of man called the 'church', improperly defined, has given and ascribed to the 'church' more authority and power than the Scriptures ever give the 'ekklesia'. In your particular denomination this understanding usually comes from a contrived understanding that Jesus told Peter that he held the keys to the kingdom and that he had the power to bind and loose. That Peter then went out and began the 'Catholic church' and has, since the day that Jesus spoke those words to him, handed down those 'keys of authority' to the men who would follow.

Friend, and I say this again with all the love and respect that is due, this is a contrived and convoluted understanding of what the Scriptures teach. I fully appreciate and understand that you aren't likely to agree with me today. That's OK. You may never agree with me, but I will continue to encourage you to search 'diligently' for God in the Scriptures, through prayer. Simply ask God sincerely to give you understanding and wisdom of these things. James tells us that God will give to us in abundance if we but ask.

I have written these things that your last sentence I copied will be a reality. It is very possible that you won't see me in the eternal life, or anyone else for that matter. If you have allowed the teaching of your particular ecclesiastical body to teach you lies about God, and have accepted those lies as 'truth', then you are honestly no different than those people in Israel that Jesus is speaking about. Friend, I merely ask that you pray on these things and ask God for His guidance, wisdom and understanding which He has promised to give in abundance for those who seek after such things. The safest and only road to eternal life is to be born again. That's what Jesus told Nicodemus. That's what John says in his first letter: Only those who are born of the Spirit of God have the right to be called 'children of God'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Dear Ted,
As I said my purpose of intervening in this thread was to correct some false accusations of Catholicism and so I've done.
In order to answer your questions I'm forced to prozetylate (evangelise/ push my faith) Catholicism which I won't do out of respect for the congregational rules at CF.

Lastly I where a Lutheran/ non denominational Christians in the past, but converted to Catholicism in my early twenties so I know a lot about the mindset of Protestantism and I reject it.

I'm unfollowing this thread from now on as I have nothing more to contribute with to the OP and I wish you all the very best and a merry Christmas to come.


God bless.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Dear Ted,
As I said my purpose of intervening in this thread was to correct some false accusations of Catholicism and so I've done.
In order to answer your questions I'm forced to prozetylate (evangelise/ push my faith) Catholicism which I won't do out of respect for the congregational rules at CF.

Lastly I where a Lutheran/ non denominational Christians in the past, but converted to Catholicism in my early twenties so I know a lot about the mindset of Protestantism and I reject it.

I'm unfollowing this thread from now on as I have nothing more to contribute with to the OP and I wish you all the very best and a merry Christmas to come.


God bless.

I've already said my peace in this thread,but I just wanted to add.

This legitimately hurt my heart to read this.

I suggest that we all pray for "aChildOfMary".

I too believe as miamited,that the only people in Heaven will be Believers.

People who have searched for God-for the Truth.

I myself used to believe the blasphemy that Christ wasn't God Himself. That He was Created second only to God at the moment of conception in Mary.

Eventually,after seriously doubting my salvation,I eventually broke down and said to God. "God,I don't care what the Truth really ends up being. I don't care what I need to end up believing. Just let me believe it. Just show it to me and I'll believe it."

Shortly afterwards I found the first chapter of 1 Corinthians that talks about how "Christ was from the beggining,and for Him,all things were created" maybe that's not when I became saved,but that sure is the start of a long road of Truth I've discovered. And now? Now,I'm a born again believer who knows he's saved because he believes Christ will save him just because Christ said He would if I would trust Him.

Seek Truth friends... no matter the cost,the pain,the hurt,the sorrow,the loneliness... Seek it with all your heart.

 

[Bluelion]

That's correct, but all it means is that a child raised in a protestant faith without any knowledge of Catholicism whatsoever can't be held responsible for his or hers ancestors rejection of the church.
After all those who are borned into protestantism haven't turned their back on anything really.

It's from the moment one gets aware of the fulness of truth within the church that it's possible to wholeheartedly reject it, thus refuse to obey Christ.

( According to what we believe.)
(sorry if I come of as prozetylating )

I got news for you the catholic church is not the body of Jesus neither is the baptist church. The true church is the body of Jesus. You do not reject Jesus because you reject the catholic church. That is a lie.

 

[Bluelion]

Allow me to explain: my post was aimed at a Baptist, explaining him why Catholics are wrong — not at a Catholic, explaining why Catholics are wrong. I would take a different approach to a Catholic or a Protestant: to a Protestant, I would assume that he would agree with me, and just show him why the others are wrong; to a Catholic, I would try to make him agree with me, and explain why he is wrong. Therefore, my post was never intended ‘to start any conversion’ — I would have written it differently if I had had that purpose in mind.

With that said, though, allow me to apologise, nevertheless, if I was too strong. My intention was not to produce any ‘horrific rant’, and I owe my sincerest apologies to you, aChildOfMary, if I wrote it in such a way that you would interpret it as conveying any sort of hatred towards Catholics. Again, I am sorry if I was too strong.

However, I maintain the theses I expressed in my previous post. I maintain that Catholicism is false, and I maintain that I cannot be sure whether Catholics are saved (and I keep leaning mostly to the possibility that they are not).

It was not, by any means, my intention that the OP should demonstrate any disrespect towards his Catholic friend. Again, I apologise if I made it seem that this was what I wanted.

What I really think the OP should do is the same thing he should always do whenever he finds someone who disagrees with him in anything: 1) investigate the evidence that demonstrate that he is right and the other person is wrong (in this case, the Bible); and 2) confront the other person with the evidence that proves that he/she is wrong, by asking the right question (normally along the lines of ‘If you believe in... how do you explain that... ?’). This is what I do in any debate.

This is all I had to say. To finalise, allow me to reiterate my apologies (I believe that apologising is never too much ) for any excessive strength which my words may have conveyed.

God bless you too!

The church is the Body of Christ. it is not catholic nor baptist or anything else it is made up of those who are saved. A person is saved by surrendering to God not by simply believing and the world church has falsely taught. Demons believe Jesus is the son of God but will never be saved. Believing is the first step in many it was never meant to end at that.

 

[Bluelion]

Landon to your op.

My advice is to point you to God. He showed you how to answer this. i'll post it for you and its something I and others here need to keep in mind.

Rom 14

The Danger of Criticism
14 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. 2 For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables.3 Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval.

5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.6 Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. 7 For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. 8 If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead.

10 So why do you condemn another believer? Why do you look down on another believer? Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For the Scriptures say,

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bend to me,
and every tongue will declare allegiance to God.’”

12 Yes, each of us will give a personal account to God. 13 So let’s stop condemning each other. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall.

14 I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong. 15 And if another believer is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don’t let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. 16 Then you will not be criticized for doing something you believe is good. 17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God, and others will approve of you, too. 19 So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up.

20 Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble. 22 You may believe there’s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don’t feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right. 23 But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.

 

[Bluelion]

If you don't keep the commandments of God by hearing the word of God according to John 14:21kjb then Christ has not manifest himself to you by a vision of him crucified for your sins: which means you have not received his Spirit: and those who have not are none of his.

Jesus is not lying in John 6:40kjb.

What Jesus said is you must follow Him, I hope you are not suggesting when a person gets saved they no longer sin? We still have a sinful nature but now we have been reborn from God. The two nature battle each other. Its what Jesus meant when He said take up your cross daily and follow me. We battle our sinful nature and try not to sin but we do. Its why good people sometimes do bad things.

 

[Goodbook]

I think..that catholics faith in their church comes first rather than faith in Jesus. I also think COM believes their church is the safest way. But Jesus doesnt say this he says I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except by me. He doesnt say anything about Mary. Even though Mary is admirable in many ways, she cannot save a soul.

We cant elevate one denom over another just because one has a long tradition. (Which has changed many times over the years).

Lets be praying for those who have been led astray by mixing the truth with a lie. That they will come the knowledge of the truth and be complete in Him. So that goes for the OP. The best thing you can do is pray for your catholic friend. i know its not easy as I had a catholic friend too and shes nowhere near accepting the gospel truth if she continues to stay where she is with RCC teachings. It was very frustrating for me and I would ask God why have you given me this friend, because we dont see eye to eye on matters of faith even though she knows all these religious sounding words.

But i have to accept that, God can work in the catholic church too by bringing them out. Thinking of this way Paul had to unlearn everything he knew as a pharisee. But he became the greatest missionary. So..maybe there is a purpose to it we cant see.

 

[Bluelion]

I think..that catholics faith in their church comes first rather than faith in Jesus. I also think COM believes their church is the safest way. But Jesus doesnt say this he says I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except by me. He doesnt say anything about Mary. Even though Mary is admirable in many ways, she cannot save a soul.

We cant elevate one denom over another just because one has a long tradition. (Which has changed many times over the years).

Lets be praying for those who have been led astray by mixing the truth with a lie. That they will come the knowledge of the truth and be complete in Him. So that goes for the OP. The best thing you can do is pray for your catholic friend. i know its not easy as I had a catholic friend too and shes nowhere near accepting the gospel truth if she continues to stay where she is with RCC teachings. It was very frustrating for me and I would ask God why have you given me this friend, because we dont see eye to eye on matters of faith even though she knows all these religious sounding words.

But i have to accept that, God can work in the catholic church too by bringing them out. Thinking of this way Paul had to unlearn everything he knew as a pharisee. But he became the greatest missionary. So..maybe there is a purpose to it we cant see.

Question your friend about Jesus to see if you find common ground, if not you better pray hard, because it is very hard to turn someone who believes they are saved but are not to God. I have never seen it done. But all things are possible with God.