Trouble in the Church

[step_by_step]

Hello all.

Up until this summer, there was not a group for "young adults" in my church. There was a youth group for those from ages 12 to 18 but after you graduated high school, there was no group. I was seriously feeling the lack of this as I had begun to realize that I have no Christian friends and no body to walk with on my journey in Christ. So it felt like a blessing from God when this wonderful young man came to our church. He was so passionate, so fired up about starting a young adult group that will minister to the lost, help us grow in Christ, and show the world that the Christian youth are still active and very much alive. I was ecstatic! This was what I needed!

Unfortunately, the group has fallen miserably short of those expectations. At first it started out well but it dwindled. Now this is what the group does when they meet: they come into the basement of the church, they ask for prayer requests, they pray, they watch a video of Robert Morris doing one of his sermons, and then they play games. The game to "Bible study" ratio is...sad. The only reason I'm sure they all go is for the games. There is no ministering. No growing. I seem to be the only person who feels let down so my suggestions are ignored. The group is nothing like I prayed it would be. There's no going out and being the church. So I have excused myself from being a part of the group because frankly I was depressed and just so, so disappointed and frustrated. It started out so wonderful and I couldn't understand why God would let it flop like this!

So now it's been about a month since I stopped going and mind you the members of the group no longer check up on me or ask how things are. No surprise there...

But I don't wish to be bitter. My father has lived his life with a smile on his face in public, only to come home and rant in bitterness and anger. He never speaks up when it counts. And I don't want to live that way. I believe God has placed words on my heart to say to the boy who started this group and I want to say them.

My question is, how do I do this in a loving way when I'm coming from a place of frustration? I don't want to be angry and I don't want to put all the blame on him (though he is to blame for lots of complacency in that group!). I want to come from a place of concern and love. How do you suggest that I go about this? Is this even something worth bringing up? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who thinks this way and I'm worried maybe there's just something wrong with me.
And finally, what do I do if they don't want to change? How do I cope with this?

Thank you all for any suggestions and advice. I'm very new to this "confrontation" thing, as I've been raised to be passive aggressive rather than address things head on. I'm trying, though, and Lord willing the message will get through!

 

[Danielwright2311]

You are the light, dont hide your light but cast it toward them all as a example.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I'm not young nor am I big on joining groups at church so I'm largely unqualified to make a response, so take it for what its worth. It seems like you want something different from the group than do others, but that does not mean what they are doing is without merit. Perhaps they are not diving as deeply spiritually with each other as you might like, but they are gathering for fellowship with like minded people away from the temptations of the secular world. There is value in that, too. The young adults in my church have organized a Friday Night Out group for themselves. The activity is purely social as far as I know. They go out to eat, see a movie, etc. That's not particularly spiritually deep. On the other hand, it's wholesome fun and they're not out involved in some other worldly activity that wouldn't be Christ-like or good for them.

You have a different vision is all. Neither is wrong. But being a part of a group involves willingness to do what the group wants to do.

 

[com7fy8]

this wonderful young man came to our church.

they watch a video of Robert Morris doing one of his sermons

Is there a connection, here? Is your church a campus of the Bob Morris ministry? And is the man a graduate of the training done by the Bob Morris ministry?

It seems like you might be saying the man got the ministry started pretty soon after he arrived; so possibly . . . if this is true . . . he might have been sent or requested through organized channels, so he could be accepted and trusted so quickly with such an important church ministry.

Bob Morris, it seems from what I have heard him on TV say, has his own church and there are a number of other churches which are campuses of his church; and it sounds like the satellite churches might be watching live broadcasts of his sermons, on Sunday, and maybe at other times.

And so, they could be depending on everyone hearing Bob so they have standardization of their message. And so, possibly, this man you are talking about was sent to simply keep organization of the young adults so they would be sure to hear Bob's messages which Bob's organization has selected for them to hear.

If this is the case, I understand your leadership likely wants to keep Bob's ministry reaching everyone. And they might be satisfied that people hearing Bob can grow sufficiently in Jesus, if they do things he preaches, even if they do not discuss what he says. And Bob does talk about growing in Jesus and how to personally share with God and relate in God's way with any and all people. So, they might consider this to be enough, and therefore you can enjoy one another and play games after taking the time to hear Bob and seek God to have you doing what he preaches.

I will not comment, here, about if I find every thing Bob says to be Biblical, but he does talk about having personal intimacy and relating with God and this is something not everyone talks about. He does say certain things that are right, and you can test in prayer and with scripture what really God desires to do with you, if you stay where you are. But I do understand that true Christian ministry is by personal example and not only by pulpit speaking >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

But Bob does present things of his personal way of living, during his messages, though I am in question about a number of items. In any case, I would not feed on what only one preacher-pastor says. Jesus has us helping one another; so you could have an issue, here, if no one else is ministering to you and getting to know you so they can see through you and help you get real correction.

My personal experience is . . . and by the Bible, I would say . . . that we need to spend time with mature senior Christians, so we can feed on their example of maturity and experience and their insight of God's word. So, it most certainly is not enough to only get ministry and sharing with people our own age if we are younger. But yes young Christians do help each other; but we need to make sure we share with seniors, especially ones who have done well in marriage for decades so they can help young people get ready for marriage and you can see how they relate in love.

You can pray and trust God to bring you together with ones He knows are really Christian adults. After all, older church people can be just . . . older . . . maybe nice with smiles and nice talking. So, you need to be able to tell the difference, how God makes us able.

And Bob Morris is not an eighty-year or older mature Christian. I mean find whoever is mature enough to mentor fifty and sixty year old pastors. Who mentors Bob Morris, for example?

You could be looking and searching at the wrong end of the age span!

Read 1 Timothy 3:1-10, about who qualifies just to be considered for ordination to "take care of the church of God". Organized ministries can take shortcuts, in their haste to fill pulpits. They can favor younger people, because youth is an idol for younger and older people. And so, mature genuine people can be put on the back burner, in order to cater to young people. But this can result in immature or falsely converted numbers of people.

Do you trust the pastor of your church? You have brought this matter to us, and you have not said a word about talking with the pastor who would be responsible for selecting and assigning the man to be your youth pastor. I think if you are going to be a member of a church, it is wise to have a pastor whom you trust and you feed on the example of this person. And if the person is younger and not maturely meeting the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3:1-10 > still, the pastor could have a mature senior mentor who is not just a buddy, and this is part of why this pastor is doing fairly well. So, in case you have a younger pastor who does function well in ministry, you might want to get to know whoever are the seniors mentoring your pastor. And these older mature ones might have groups at home, where you can share with them and others.

But in case the leadership is out of reach . . . and they are not taking care of you > you can trust God to give you the correction you need so you can obey Him and find who you belong with. But, in my case, I have always been my main problem, not being honest and obedient so I could get with the right people who often enough were right where I could find them

So, it will be interesting to read what you do . . . please. Thank you for sharing such personal concerns with us. God bless you

Bill

 

[step_by_step]

Is there a connection, here? Is your church a campus of the Bob Morris ministry? And is the man a graduate of the training done by the Bob Morris ministry?

It seems like you might be saying the man got the ministry started pretty soon after he arrived; so possibly . . . if this is true . . . he might have been sent or requested through organized channels, so he could be accepted and trusted so quickly with such an important church ministry.

Bob Morris, it seems from what I have heard him on TV say, has his own church and there are a number of other churches which are campuses of his church; and it sounds like the satellite churches might be watching live broadcasts of his sermons, on Sunday, and maybe at other times.

And so, they could be depending on everyone hearing Bob so they have standardization of their message. And so, possibly, this man you are talking about was sent to simply keep organization of the young adults so they would be sure to hear Bob's messages which Bob's organization has selected for them to hear.

If this is the case, I understand your leadership likely wants to keep Bob's ministry reaching everyone. And they might be satisfied that people hearing Bob can grow sufficiently in Jesus, if they do things he preaches, even if they do not discuss what he says. And Bob does talk about growing in Jesus and how to personally share with God and relate in God's way with any and all people. So, they might consider this to be enough, and therefore you can enjoy one another and play games after taking the time to hear Bob and seek God to have you doing what he preaches.

I will not comment, here, about if I find every thing Bob says to be Biblical, but he does talk about having personal intimacy and relating with God and this is something not everyone talks about. He does say certain things that are right, and you can test in prayer and with scripture what really God desires to do with you, if you stay where you are. But I do understand that true Christian ministry is by personal example and not only by pulpit speaking >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

But Bob does present things of his personal way of living, during his messages, though I am in question about a number of items. In any case, I would not feed on what only one preacher-pastor says. Jesus has us helping one another; so you could have an issue, here, if no one else is ministering to you and getting to know you so they can see through you and help you get real correction.

My personal experience is . . . and by the Bible, I would say . . . that we need to spend time with mature senior Christians, so we can feed on their example of maturity and experience and their insight of God's word. So, it most certainly is not enough to only get ministry and sharing with people our own age if we are younger. But yes young Christians do help each other; but we need to make sure we share with seniors, especially ones who have done well in marriage for decades so they can help young people get ready for marriage and you can see how they relate in love.

You can pray and trust God to bring you together with ones He knows are really Christian adults. After all, older church people can be just . . . older . . . maybe nice with smiles and nice talking. So, you need to be able to tell the difference, how God makes us able.

And Bob Morris is not an eighty-year or older mature Christian. I mean find whoever is mature enough to mentor fifty and sixty year old pastors. Who mentors Bob Morris, for example?

You could be looking and searching at the wrong end of the age span!

Read 1 Timothy 3:1-10, about who qualifies just to be considered for ordination to "take care of the church of God". Organized ministries can take shortcuts, in their haste to fill pulpits. They can favor younger people, because youth is an idol for younger and older people. And so, mature genuine people can be put on the back burner, in order to cater to young people. But this can result in immature or falsely converted numbers of people.

Do you trust the pastor of your church? You have brought this matter to us, and you have not said a word about talking with the pastor who would be responsible for selecting and assigning the man to be your youth pastor. I think if you are going to be a member of a church, it is wise to have a pastor whom you trust and you feed on the example of this person. And if the person is younger and not maturely meeting the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3:1-10 > still, the pastor could have a mature senior mentor who is not just a buddy, and this is part of why this pastor is doing fairly well. So, in case you have a younger pastor who does function well in ministry, you might want to get to know whoever are the seniors mentoring your pastor. And these older mature ones might have groups at home, where you can share with them and others.

But in case the leadership is out of reach . . . and they are not taking care of you > you can trust God to give you the correction you need so you can obey Him and find who you belong with. But, in my case, I have always been my main problem, not being honest and obedient so I could get with the right people who often enough were right where I could find them

So, it will be interesting to read what you do . . . please. Thank you for sharing such personal concerns with us. God bless you

Bill

No, the man who came to our church and started this group was not from any of Robert Morris's churches. He just likes the preaching. My issue with this person is that he does not listen or accept suggestions for improvement. I would take this to the leaders of my church if they were competent leaders. I do not trust my pastor to make a wise decision nor do I trust our elders. They were not responsible for putting this young man in charge and in fact the leader who did officially set up the group appointed someone else as the leader. This young man just took over. I realize this shows deeper issues in our church but it would take all day to explain that...
Thank you for your advice and suggestions and I'll make sure to keep you guys up to date on what's going on. I'm getting discouraged and feeling like maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut since maybe the other youth are getting something out of these meetings. Maybe it's just me who isn't satisfied.

 

[com7fy8]

Thank you for your advice and suggestions and I'll make sure to keep you guys up to date on what's going on. I'm getting discouraged and feeling like maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut since maybe the other youth are getting something out of these meetings. Maybe it's just me who isn't satisfied.

So, if you do not know if the others are getting something, this means you do not know them very well. And you say you do not trust the leadership.

So, I think you can stay and share there, but I would find Christian mature people whom you trust . . . there, in case any are there . . . and/or elsewhere. And come to agreement in prayer and sharing, about what you will do.

If you find you should be there, I would start getting to know some of them, and see if and how you can help them. And it is possible there are really Christian people who go there, maybe in order to reach people there.

What has worked out well for me is I tested a local church and discovered certain ones who were for real. But the pastor turned out to be an issue. But I had the for-real ones who fed me their example. That pastor moved on, and we got a younger guy who preaches a sound message, though he needs correction of his example, I would say, and he might have a buddy system of others more his age who can help him push what he wants. But I have the more real ones who have hope for him and the church, and I am feeding on the vision of the older mature members.

And I test each thing the younger ones say and do. And I talk with them, and offer things to help them.

But my own need for correction . . . continues

 

[W2L]

Hello all.

Up until this summer, there was not a group for "young adults" in my church. There was a youth group for those from ages 12 to 18 but after you graduated high school, there was no group. I was seriously feeling the lack of this as I had begun to realize that I have no Christian friends and no body to walk with on my journey in Christ. So it felt like a blessing from God when this wonderful young man came to our church. He was so passionate, so fired up about starting a young adult group that will minister to the lost, help us grow in Christ, and show the world that the Christian youth are still active and very much alive. I was ecstatic! This was what I needed!

Unfortunately, the group has fallen miserably short of those expectations. At first it started out well but it dwindled. Now this is what the group does when they meet: they come into the basement of the church, they ask for prayer requests, they pray, they watch a video of Robert Morris doing one of his sermons, and then they play games. The game to "Bible study" ratio is...sad. The only reason I'm sure they all go is for the games. There is no ministering. No growing. I seem to be the only person who feels let down so my suggestions are ignored. The group is nothing like I prayed it would be. There's no going out and being the church. So I have excused myself from being a part of the group because frankly I was depressed and just so, so disappointed and frustrated. It started out so wonderful and I couldn't understand why God would let it flop like this!

So now it's been about a month since I stopped going and mind you the members of the group no longer check up on me or ask how things are. No surprise there...

But I don't wish to be bitter. My father has lived his life with a smile on his face in public, only to come home and rant in bitterness and anger. He never speaks up when it counts. And I don't want to live that way. I believe God has placed words on my heart to say to the boy who started this group and I want to say them.

My question is, how do I do this in a loving way when I'm coming from a place of frustration? I don't want to be angry and I don't want to put all the blame on him (though he is to blame for lots of complacency in that group!). I want to come from a place of concern and love. How do you suggest that I go about this? Is this even something worth bringing up? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who thinks this way and I'm worried maybe there's just something wrong with me.
And finally, what do I do if they don't want to change? How do I cope with this?

Thank you all for any suggestions and advice. I'm very new to this "confrontation" thing, as I've been raised to be passive aggressive rather than address things head on. I'm trying, though, and Lord willing the message will get through!

Maybe you could share scriptures with this group which are relevant to your mission. Do they allow you to share scriptures? You dont need to say anything, let the scriptures do the talking.

 

[mmsyther]

Titus 2:6 "Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded " .

Dont be surprised to know that your church isn't living perfectly according to the scripture. Specifically Titus. You mentioned the elders and pastor not being people you can trust for sound actions. You'd be surprised to find how many churches are just like yours . I definitely have attended one just like it.

At the same time, there are loads of exhortations and scriptural truths that me and you aren't even close to recognizing and obeying . We take it one step at a time . Look at the scriptures and think how we should live in accordance to what we read .

I encourage you to be graceful and to apply what you see lacking in your group to yourself . Think about how you can take worship of Christ more seriously . Also, in graceful ways to bring up your concerns to someone who you know is serious about doctrine . You definitely aren't alone in your views . I've never been able to bring up my concerns to others in leadership so I definitely dont fault you if you don't. I have been able to talk to just regular members though.

Christ is the great shepherd. He has bought you with his blood through the Gospel of Jesus Christ and he will sanctify you ( Hebrews 13:20). Pastors and elders are only under shepard's who have been given their roles by Christ himself( Ephesians 4:7-12). Continue in the word and prayer and fellowship at Church knowing that Christ will triumph in your sanctification regardless of the faults of his shepard's (Acts 2:42-47). In the end you will be glorified and your sanctification will be complete.

Isaiah 40:11
Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.

 

[Andrew77]

Hello all.

Up until this summer, there was not a group for "young adults" in my church. There was a youth group for those from ages 12 to 18 but after you graduated high school, there was no group. I was seriously feeling the lack of this as I had begun to realize that I have no Christian friends and no body to walk with on my journey in Christ. So it felt like a blessing from God when this wonderful young man came to our church. He was so passionate, so fired up about starting a young adult group that will minister to the lost, help us grow in Christ, and show the world that the Christian youth are still active and very much alive. I was ecstatic! This was what I needed!

Unfortunately, the group has fallen miserably short of those expectations. At first it started out well but it dwindled. Now this is what the group does when they meet: they come into the basement of the church, they ask for prayer requests, they pray, they watch a video of Robert Morris doing one of his sermons, and then they play games. The game to "Bible study" ratio is...sad. The only reason I'm sure they all go is for the games. There is no ministering. No growing. I seem to be the only person who feels let down so my suggestions are ignored. The group is nothing like I prayed it would be. There's no going out and being the church. So I have excused myself from being a part of the group because frankly I was depressed and just so, so disappointed and frustrated. It started out so wonderful and I couldn't understand why God would let it flop like this!

So now it's been about a month since I stopped going and mind you the members of the group no longer check up on me or ask how things are. No surprise there...

But I don't wish to be bitter. My father has lived his life with a smile on his face in public, only to come home and rant in bitterness and anger. He never speaks up when it counts. And I don't want to live that way. I believe God has placed words on my heart to say to the boy who started this group and I want to say them.

My question is, how do I do this in a loving way when I'm coming from a place of frustration? I don't want to be angry and I don't want to put all the blame on him (though he is to blame for lots of complacency in that group!). I want to come from a place of concern and love. How do you suggest that I go about this? Is this even something worth bringing up? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who thinks this way and I'm worried maybe there's just something wrong with me.
And finally, what do I do if they don't want to change? How do I cope with this?

Thank you all for any suggestions and advice. I'm very new to this "confrontation" thing, as I've been raised to be passive aggressive rather than address things head on. I'm trying, though, and Lord willing the message will get through!

I'm still missing what needs to be confronted. What terrible thing is he doing?

Because I have to be honest with you, from the sounds of it, it is exactly how I would run a group. Unless there is something you are not telling me.

I was part of a group like that years ago, and that is pretty much what they did. And I loved it. It's hard to meet with Christians, and have a fun time with people, that all love G-d the way I do.

So here is my suggestions....

First, I would not go "confronting" someone on this, unless you actually have something more than what you have mentioned, that needs confronting.

Second, if you wish to do something more, then ask "Hey can we do 'x'?". Just go in there, and say you would like to do "X", is anyone interested in doing that. Maybe they'll say yes, maybe they'll say no. Whatever their answer is, accept it.

Third, if you are so fired up about this, why don't you start a group to do that?

Just to be open and honest with you, I am always a bit put off by people who sit around in the back critiquing the people who are actually doing something.

That guy is likely doing the best he knows how. You are doing nothing but complaining about him.

How about you go around asking people to join you to do whatever it is you want to do. You will find out real quick how hard running a group like that is, and I can almost guarantee someone will join your group, and sit in the back talking about how you are running it badly.

And one last thing.

I would advise you to not talk about how there is no growing or ministering. That's on you.

As a baby your mother provides all the food, catered for your needs, so that you grow. As an adult, it's time that you start cutting your own meat, and putting it in your own mouth, yourself.

It is no longer the duty of other people, to help you grow. Time to get your own plate, put your own food on it, and shove it in your face, all by yourself.

In other words, you be the minister. You grow yourself. Maybe you need to start showing up at these groups, with the mindset of "what can I contribute to this group of Christians" instead of "What can I get from this group to grow and minister to me".

Now that might not be how you instead your post.... that is how it came across to me....

Just saying brother...

 

[Andrew77]

No, the man who came to our church and started this group was not from any of Robert Morris's churches. He just likes the preaching. My issue with this person is that he does not listen or accept suggestions for improvement. I would take this to the leaders of my church if they were competent leaders. I do not trust my pastor to make a wise decision nor do I trust our elders. They were not responsible for putting this young man in charge and in fact the leader who did officially set up the group appointed someone else as the leader. This young man just took over. I realize this shows deeper issues in our church but it would take all day to explain that...
Thank you for your advice and suggestions and I'll make sure to keep you guys up to date on what's going on. I'm getting discouraged and feeling like maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut since maybe the other youth are getting something out of these meetings. Maybe it's just me who isn't satisfied.

I find this very disturbing.

Again, I would suggest you just start your own group then. Just say "does anyone want to meet at my house on Thursday for a quick Bible study?" and do your own thing.

But... if you really don't trust the pastor to make a wise choices, and you don't trust the elders... why are you going to that Church? Just to talk bad about the leadership?

I would not do this. That is a bad plan. Either go talk to the leadership, or start trusting them, or move on to another church.

I think you are on a very bad road. This is not good my friend. Start your own group.

 

[step_by_step]

I find this very disturbing.

Again, I would suggest you just start your own group then. Just say "does anyone want to meet at my house on Thursday for a quick Bible study?" and do your own thing.

But... if you really don't trust the pastor to make a wise choices, and you don't trust the elders... why are you going to that Church? Just to talk bad about the leadership?

I would not do this. That is a bad plan. Either go talk to the leadership, or start trusting them, or move on to another church.

I think you are on a very bad road. This is not good my friend. Start your own group.

I appreciate your criticism but I will say that you know nothing about my life or my situation with my church. I cannot leave as it is not my decision. I am not simply sitting back and complaining behind this boy's back. I have come to him countless times with suggestions and concerns and he is just dismissive. I have even gone to the person who first organized this (who is a leader in our church) and was then reminded that the leaders of my church are useless when it comes to solving any sort of issue. I cannot start my own group as there are only five young adults at our church including me and my brother. To start a new one that would conflict with the current one would be a waste of time. Also I know I can't just be sitting around waiting for someone to spoon feed me growth in Christ. I'm doing my part. But fellowship is just as important. I cannot fellowship with people who only want to get God out of the way so they can play Settlers of Catan.
You seem to get the impression that I just sit around talking badly about people but that is not the case. I don't even wish to talk badly about anyone, this man in question is just a very poor leader.

 

[Andrew77]

I appreciate your criticism but I will say that you know nothing about my life or my situation with my church. I cannot leave as it is not my decision. I am not simply sitting back and complaining behind this boy's back. I have come to him countless times with suggestions and concerns and he is just dismissive. I have even gone to the person who first organized this (who is a leader in our church) and was then reminded that the leaders of my church are useless when it comes to solving any sort of issue. I cannot start my own group as there are only five young adults at our church including me and my brother. To start a new one that would conflict with the current one would be a waste of time. Also I know I can't just be sitting around waiting for someone to spoon feed me growth in Christ. I'm doing my part. But fellowship is just as important. I cannot fellowship with people who only want to get God out of the way so they can play Settlers of Catan.
You seem to get the impression that I just sit around talking badly about people but that is not the case. I don't even wish to talk badly about anyone, this man in question is just a very poor leader.

All of course I don't know everything going on. I have to go based on what you post. I have no ability to see beyond what you post here.

Yes, I know you approached him. I gathered that. But you are still complaining, when the answer was 'no'.

When you give advice, and the answer is 'no', you stop. You are not in charge of this group. That means that sometimes the answer is going to be 'no' to your ideas. That is what it means to be part of a group that you are not in charge of.

There have been many times in the past two years, that I have given advice to my manager about how things should operate. When he says 'no', I shut up about it, and don't complain to anyone. He's in charge. I am not. That's how life works.

I cannot fellowship with people who only want to get God out of the way so they can play Settlers of Catan.

Really? I sure can. Absolutely I can. I honestly can't even begin to count the number of times, that while playing a game with people, and we got to talking about things going on in someone's life. I was able to pray with them, and/or talk with them about faith, and discuss things that really matter.

I do this to pagans all the time. Can't count the number of people who have asked me after a game, where we were talking about things going on with them "Why do you believe all that Christian stuff?", and I answer them and minister to them.

HOWEVER.... You did say "get god out of the way". Now if these people are absolutely against doing anything with G-d.... then honestly it doesn't matter who is in charge of this group.

If the people in the group... want to literally as you say "get god out of the way".... then you can be mad at the group leader, but it wouldn't matter who the leader was. They are not going to go out on mission trips, when they just want god out of their lives.

So when I was 20, I moved into my own apartment, and had my own job. After all, at age 18, you are an adult.

That means you make your own choices. You are now responsible for yourself. That's a fact.

Again, I don't know what your life situation is, but if I were you, I would start my own group.

It seems painfully clear that you really have your heart into something you wish to do at your age, that this Church is not going to do.

Either accept it..... or step out on your own, and start your own group. You seem to have a passion for this, so I would do it. I think you should do it.

If none of the people your age at this Church are interested, then reach out other Churches.

About 15 years ago, I was a member of a small group that was part of a completely different church, than the church I was attending.

I greatly enjoyed being part of that group. If that is what you need to do, then I again would suggest you step out, and do it. Pray that G-d leads you on a path to do the things you wish to do.

 

[step_by_step]

All of course I don't know everything going on. I have to go based on what you post. I have no ability to see beyond what you post here.

Yes, I know you approached him. I gathered that. But you are still complaining, when the answer was 'no'.

When you give advice, and the answer is 'no', you stop. You are not in charge of this group. That means that sometimes the answer is going to be 'no' to your ideas. That is what it means to be part of a group that you are not in charge of.

There have been many times in the past two years, that I have given advice to my manager about how things should operate. When he says 'no', I shut up about it, and don't complain to anyone. He's in charge. I am not. That's how life works.

I cannot fellowship with people who only want to get God out of the way so they can play Settlers of Catan.

Really? I sure can. Absolutely I can. I honestly can't even begin to count the number of times, that while playing a game with people, and we got to talking about things going on in someone's life. I was able to pray with them, and/or talk with them about faith, and discuss things that really matter.

I do this to pagans all the time. Can't count the number of people who have asked me after a game, where we were talking about things going on with them "Why do you believe all that Christian stuff?", and I answer them and minister to them.

HOWEVER.... You did say "get god out of the way". Now if these people are absolutely against doing anything with G-d.... then honestly it doesn't matter who is in charge of this group.

If the people in the group... want to literally as you say "get god out of the way".... then you can be mad at the group leader, but it wouldn't matter who the leader was. They are not going to go out on mission trips, when they just want god out of their lives.

So when I was 20, I moved into my own apartment, and had my own job. After all, at age 18, you are an adult.

That means you make your own choices. You are now responsible for yourself. That's a fact.

Again, I don't know what your life situation is, but if I were you, I would start my own group.

It seems painfully clear that you really have your heart into something you wish to do at your age, that this Church is not going to do.

Either accept it..... or step out on your own, and start your own group. You seem to have a passion for this, so I would do it. I think you should do it.

If none of the people your age at this Church are interested, then reach out other Churches.

About 15 years ago, I was a member of a small group that was part of a completely different church, than the church I was attending.

I greatly enjoyed being part of that group. If that is what you need to do, then I again would suggest you step out, and do it. Pray that G-d leads you on a path to do the things you wish to do.

Fine, but why do we just give up so easily? Why when I see a need in my church should I just abandon my vision and move on somewhere else just because someone told me no? There is a desperate need in my church for a solid Bible study for the young adults and that need is NOT being met. I don't want to just take the easy option and leave. Yeah I'd love to just take the no and be bitter with them and not try to solve the issue but that's way easier than staying and trying to work through it with them.

And again, you seem to misunderstand what my post is about. There is a difference between complaining and stating an issue that is bothering me. There is an issue that is bothering me and I'm pointing it out and asking for advice. I'm not just sitting here and complaining, ranting, and raving about this kid. I'm trying to find a solution. There's a difference.

 

[Andrew77]

Fine, but why do we just give up so easily? Why when I see a need in my church should I just abandon my vision and move on somewhere else just because someone told me no? There is a desperate need in my church for a solid Bible study for the young adults and that need is NOT being met. I don't want to just take the easy option and leave. Yeah I'd love to just take the no and be bitter with them and not try to solve the issue but that's way easier than staying and trying to work through it with them.

And again, you seem to misunderstand what my post is about. There is a difference between complaining and stating an issue that is bothering me. There is an issue that is bothering me and I'm pointing it out and asking for advice. I'm not just sitting here and complaining, ranting, and raving about this kid. I'm trying to find a solution. There's a difference.

Ok, I'm with you on this. And I have given you the solutions that I see. I don't see any other solution.

I never said give up. I don't disagree with you wanting to do what G-d has given you to care about.

But let us look at this from a practical perspective.

You don't trust the church leadership, so you are not going to talk to them. Thus that isn't going to change.

You have already talked to this guy, and he has no interest in doing things differently. Thus that isn't going to change either.

Maybe the only thing you can do, is just pray about it? Obviously G-d can do anything he wants.

But as much as it involves you, I don't see anything else you can do. That's why I gave the suggestions I did before.

 

[Jacaroo]

Step by Step,
It's really difficult when you want more out of a group than they are providing. I think sometimes we are unsettled because we have different ideas of how to go about things and what we hope and pray for might look differently than what God provides. It's hard. We want people to see things our way and maybe we aren't patient and listening to what others want or feel is important. I'm totally guilty! You have prayed about this situation and so I would encourage you to consider what God might be doing in the midst of this imperfect group. As you have said "Why would he allow this to flop?" Maybe this is not the right question. We know God is good and he provides all that we need. So maybe ask yourself "What is God doing in this situation?" Consider that you may have a chance to grow closer to the people in the group through game time and potentially start a small group to study the word. I've learned from personal experience that I don't have an accurate idea of all that goes on behind the scenes of leadership. I want THEM to fix problems and I'm quick to criticize something, but I have struggled to ask myself what am I doing to solve a potential problem. Or maybe I need to give people more grace and time to grow. We might be too quick to abandon a group that doesn't look the way that we want it. This particular group may be meeting needs for some. We are all on a path of growth. It sounds like God is growing you in patience and maybe how to grow in leadership with this particular scenario. I highly encourage you to stay in the Word and reflect on what God's doing in and through you. God uses imperfect situations and people to grow US to rely on Him and less on our own comfort or situations. He loves us so much that he wants more for us than what we want for ourselves. It's an opportunity for you to grow in grace and compassion for others as well. God desires us to be in community for this very reason--- it shapes us!
From Colossians 3:
12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[LoricaLady]

Hello all.

Up until this summer, there was not a group for "young adults" in my church. There was a youth group for those from ages 12 to 18 but after you graduated high school, there was no group. I was seriously feeling the lack of this as I had begun to realize that I have no Christian friends and no body to walk with on my journey in Christ. So it felt like a blessing from God when this wonderful young man came to our church. He was so passionate, so fired up about starting a young adult group that will minister to the lost, help us grow in Christ, and show the world that the Christian youth are still active and very much alive. I was ecstatic! This was what I needed!

Unfortunately, the group has fallen miserably short of those expectations. At first it started out well but it dwindled. Now this is what the group does when they meet: they come into the basement of the church, they ask for prayer requests, they pray, they watch a video of Robert Morris doing one of his sermons, and then they play games. The game to "Bible study" ratio is...sad. The only reason I'm sure they all go is for the games. There is no ministering. No growing. I seem to be the only person who feels let down so my suggestions are ignored. The group is nothing like I prayed it would be. There's no going out and being the church. So I have excused myself from being a part of the group because frankly I was depressed and just so, so disappointed and frustrated. It started out so wonderful and I couldn't understand why God would let it flop like this!

So now it's been about a month since I stopped going and mind you the members of the group no longer check up on me or ask how things are. No surprise there...

But I don't wish to be bitter. My father has lived his life with a smile on his face in public, only to come home and rant in bitterness and anger. He never speaks up when it counts. And I don't want to live that way. I believe God has placed words on my heart to say to the boy who started this group and I want to say them.

My question is, how do I do this in a loving way when I'm coming from a place of frustration? I don't want to be angry and I don't want to put all the blame on him (though he is to blame for lots of complacency in that group!). I want to come from a place of concern and love. How do you suggest that I go about this? Is this even something worth bringing up? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who thinks this way and I'm worried maybe there's just something wrong with me.
And finally, what do I do if they don't want to change? How do I cope with this?

Thank you all for any suggestions and advice. I'm very new to this "confrontation" thing, as I've been raised to be passive aggressive rather than address things head on. I'm trying, though, and Lord willing the message will get through!

I wouldn't be surprised if the "guy who started this" feels more disheartened that you. Maybe he is just giving the group what they want, which ain't much spiritually. Maybe he is all sparkle and no real fire. Whatever, it doesn't sound like he could stir up that group anyway.

Many Church people really aren't that much interested in true spiritual growth. At all. Trying to change them, with the most charismatic leader out there, will probably be a waste of time and earn resentment. You can't give people new hearts. Only the Lord can do that.

I would say just to move on. Talking to the group leader doesn't sound like it will change a thing, but it might make him feel bad, like a failure.

Though some people are happy with their Churches and study groups and so on, your lament is not uncommon. For example I have heard quite a few people on this Forum complain about congregants who are unfriendly, about Churches that don't preach the true Gospel, and on and on.

If you can find a Church you like better, go for it. Otherwise, can you find one or two folk who would like to meet in your home?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Hello all.

Up until this summer, there was not a group for "young adults" in my church. There was a youth group for those from ages 12 to 18 but after you graduated high school, there was no group. I was seriously feeling the lack of this as I had begun to realize that I have no Christian friends and no body to walk with on my journey in Christ. So it felt like a blessing from God when this wonderful young man came to our church. He was so passionate, so fired up about starting a young adult group that will minister to the lost, help us grow in Christ, and show the world that the Christian youth are still active and very much alive. I was ecstatic! This was what I needed!

Unfortunately, the group has fallen miserably short of those expectations. At first it started out well but it dwindled. Now this is what the group does when they meet: they come into the basement of the church, they ask for prayer requests, they pray, they watch a video of Robert Morris doing one of his sermons, and then they play games. The game to "Bible study" ratio is...sad. The only reason I'm sure they all go is for the games. There is no ministering. No growing. I seem to be the only person who feels let down so my suggestions are ignored. The group is nothing like I prayed it would be. There's no going out and being the church. So I have excused myself from being a part of the group because frankly I was depressed and just so, so disappointed and frustrated. It started out so wonderful and I couldn't understand why God would let it flop like this!

So now it's been about a month since I stopped going and mind you the members of the group no longer check up on me or ask how things are. No surprise there...

But I don't wish to be bitter. My father has lived his life with a smile on his face in public, only to come home and rant in bitterness and anger. He never speaks up when it counts. And I don't want to live that way. I believe God has placed words on my heart to say to the boy who started this group and I want to say them.

My question is, how do I do this in a loving way when I'm coming from a place of frustration? I don't want to be angry and I don't want to put all the blame on him (though he is to blame for lots of complacency in that group!). I want to come from a place of concern and love. How do you suggest that I go about this? Is this even something worth bringing up? Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who thinks this way and I'm worried maybe there's just something wrong with me.
And finally, what do I do if they don't want to change? How do I cope with this?

Thank you all for any suggestions and advice. I'm very new to this "confrontation" thing, as I've been raised to be passive aggressive rather than address things head on. I'm trying, though, and Lord willing the message will get through!

Other people will always disappoint you. Absolutely bring it up. State your case, kindly and with respect. No blame...just a mention of what you personally would like to see the group become. If rebuffed, find another group. Not everyone is supposed to be with you on your journey. That's the sad truth.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I wouldn't be surprised if the "guy who started this" feels more disheartened that you. Maybe he is just giving the group what they want, which ain't much spiritually. Maybe he is all sparkle and no real fire. Whatever, it doesn't sound like he could stir up that group anyway.

Many Church people really aren't that much interested in true spiritual growth. At all. Trying to change them, with the most charismatic leader out there, will probably be a waste of time and earn resentment. You can't give people new hearts. Only the Lord can do that.

I would say just to move on. Talking to the group leader doesn't sound like it will change a thing, but it might make him feel bad, like a failure.

Though some people are happy with their Churches and study groups and so on, your lament is not uncommon. For example I have heard quite a few people on this Forum complain about congregants who are unfriendly, about Churches that don't preach the true Gospel, and on and on.

If you can find a Church you like better, go for it. Otherwise, can you find one or two folk who would like to meet in your home?

This is true. Going through the motions is more than enough for many who claim they are walking in the Lord.