Trolley Problem and God

[com7fy8]

Great. Then why do you follow a God that does think I deserve hell for lying?

I do not know of any scripture which directly says you deserve hell for lying. But it does say liars will go there. But, like I have said, I don't think the actual lies are the real reason, but what is causing them, from within a person.

This includes how Jesus says Satan is the father of lies > John 8:44. So, in case a lie is wrong, it is connected with Satan and his evil spirit > Ephesians 2:2 < this is what needs for sure to be kept in hell; but humans are attached.

And, again, are you going to tell us exactly what the lies are, which you are talking about. There are lies which humans can commit, which are connected with hatred, which is what makes someone a murderer, according to what I get through 1 John 3:15. Hatred is what can help to make sure someone is in hell . . . even if they do not deserve to be. Hell, in my opinion now, is not only about what we deserve. It is a practical place for keeping ones who have refused God.

 

[com7fy8]

I can love people and value not lying without a god.

God bless you more

 

[com7fy8]

And I am saying I don't live solely for pleasure. I have purposes and goals that are not about pure pleasure. I love many people without believing in a God. I am not love dead.

Can you define love dead?

I can offer.

For me, personally, I mean anything in me which degrades me from how I can be sharing with God in His own peace, and sharing as family with others who are into this, while also caring in prayer with hope for any and all people.

So, for examples > what can degrade and distract me from loving include >

my main problem > self-righteously criticizing anyone, at all > I need to have compassion, instead > Hebrews 5:2 > with hope for any person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). So, my self-righteous stuff is love-dead.

And I can give in to immoral fantasizing, instead of personally loving women. So, I might feel alive to a certain sort of pleasure, but not be alive to first tenderly caring for each person.

So, it is kind of a wavelength thing . . . like how if you are tuned to an acid rock radio broadcast, you are dead to the broadcast coming on the soothing smooth jazz channel.

And Jesus says,

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

So, if I am being picky and choosy about who is good enough or deserving enough for me to love them . . . this can be not alive in God's all-loving love. So, it can be love-dead . . . loving. And I have been very conceited, picking and loving ones I have wanted to use. So, my conceit has been love-dead, though I was somehow loving certain people. But Jesus who is so superior is not at all conceited, but Jesus came to us humans, knowing how we really are, and He suffered and died like He did, for us. But this is my example, required also of me > Ephesians 5:2.

So, I still have a lot of homework to do, to learn how to love.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

You like the rest of us don’t know all the variables as to why God requires us to believe on faith instead of conclusive proof. So you can’t say for certain that God could’ve created a world where most or all could be saved that is merely an assumption based on little to no knowledge of the full picture. Without understanding why God has decided man must be saved by faith your explanation is incomplete. Perhaps this outcome was the plan because it will result in the highest number of those who will choose to believe of their own free will. That number simply is not the majority of mankind and not God’s fault but man’s. God did however go out of His way to make a way for all to be saved. So each man’s fate lies in his own hands.

Well this is not my fault. I can only make conclusions on the information I have. The information I have leads to the conclusion that God created a world where most people are not saved. If God wants to clear this up he can.

God went out of His way to make a way for salvation but did not go out of his way to communicate that truth. This is not my fault or mans fault.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I do not know of any scripture which directly says you deserve hell for lying. But it does say liars will go there. But, like I have said, I don't think the actual lies are the real reason, but what is causing them, from within a person.

The Bible does not indicate this.

This includes how Jesus says Satan is the father of lies > John 8:44. So, in case a lie is wrong, it is connected with Satan and his evil spirit > Ephesians 2:2 < this is what needs for sure to be kept in hell; but humans are attached.

Ok, I have no reason to believe this is true.

And, again, are you going to tell us exactly what the lies are, which you are talking about. There are lies which humans can commit, which are connected with hatred, which is what makes someone a murderer, according to what I get through 1 John 3:15. Hatred is what can help to make sure someone is in hell . . . even if they do not deserve to be. Hell, in my opinion now, is not only about what we deserve. It is a practical place for keeping ones who have refused God.

Why is hell a moral solution to not believing in God? I don't refuse Him. I have no convincing evidence that He exists. Again that is not my problem but Gods. God can provide the evidence He exists and then I can decide if I want to follow Him or not.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I can offer.

For me, personally, I mean anything in me which degrades me from how I can be sharing with God in His own peace, and sharing as family with others who are into this, while also caring in prayer with hope for any and all people.

So, for examples > what can degrade and distract me from loving include >

my main problem > self-righteously criticizing anyone, at all > I need to have compassion, instead > Hebrews 5:2 > with hope for any person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7). So, my self-righteous stuff is love-dead.

And I can give in to immoral fantasizing, instead of personally loving women. So, I might feel alive to a certain sort of pleasure, but not be alive to first tenderly caring for each person.

So, it is kind of a wavelength thing . . . like how if you are tuned to an acid rock radio broadcast, you are dead to the broadcast coming on the soothing smooth jazz channel.

And Jesus says,

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" in Matthew 5:46.

So, if I am being picky and choosy about who is good enough or deserving enough for me to love them . . . this can be not alive in God's all-loving love. So, it can be love-dead . . . loving. And I have been very conceited, picking and loving ones I have wanted to use. So, my conceit has been love-dead, though I was somehow loving certain people. But Jesus who is so superior is not at all conceited, but Jesus came to us humans, knowing how we really are, and He suffered and died like He did, for us. But this is my example, required also of me > Ephesians 5:2.

So, I still have a lot of homework to do, to learn how to love.

Thanks, I don't see why a God is needed to love others. We all make mistakes and have successes loving others. I strive to respect and love others as best I can. I don't see how that is any different than a Christian.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well this is not my fault. I can only make conclusions on the information I have. The information I have leads to the conclusion that God created a world where most people are not saved. If God wants to clear this up he can.

God went out of His way to make a way for salvation but did not go out of his way to communicate that truth. This is not my fault or mans fault.

I don’t expect Him to explain anything to me. That’s what faith and trust is all about.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I don’t expect Him to explain anything to me. That’s what faith and trust is all about.

Then why not believe the claims of Allah?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then why not believe the claims of Allah?

Allah is God. Muslims, Christians, and Jews worship the same God.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Allah is God. Muslims, Christians, and Jews worship the same God.

I don't think that is a consensus among believers. Most Christians do not believe this is true.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't think that is a consensus among believers. Most Christians do not believe this is true.

I think Muslims worship the same God; they just do so with incorrect theology.

I may be right, and I'll have a good day, Clizby!

 

[com7fy8]

I do not know of any scripture which directly says you deserve hell for lying. But it does say liars will go there. But, like I have said, I don't think the actual lies are the real reason, but what is causing them, from within a person.

The Bible does not indicate this.

In case this has to do with what you mean >

Revelation 21:8 does say, "liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone".

But my opinion is the lies themselves are not what get a person there. But what is really inside a person has the most to do with it, and one scripture I have for this is >

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14)

So, if the lying is because of a person not being holy, the main problem is not being holy, I would say. And, of course, we have >

"Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?" (in 1 John 2:22)

"If we deny Him, He also will deny us." > in 2 Timothy 2:12. So, there is lying which will result in denying.

 

[com7fy8]

Thanks, I don't see why a God is needed to love others.

I do better with Jesus, than I have done on my own. I did horribly.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I do better with Jesus, than I have done on my own. I did horribly.

I find myself doing better as a non believer. I don't have to love the sinner hate the sin, I can love all of someone.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't think that is a consensus among believers. Most Christians do not believe this is true.

It’s indisputable. Muslims worship the God of Israel. They don’t worship a different God. They worship the same God the Jews worship. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It’s indisputable. Muslims worship the God of Israel. They don’t worship a different God. They worship the same God the Jews worship. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah.

Christians believe their god is triune. Muslims think god is one. Not the same god.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Christians believe their god is triune. Muslims think god is one. Not the same god.

It is the same God. The Jews are also monotheists and yet we worship the same God.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It is the same God. The Jews are also monotheists and yet we worship the same God.

I disagree. Believing God is one and believing God is three entities/persons etc. are not describing the same God. They also have many contradictory characteristics between the Jewish, Christian and Muslim god. That is logically impossible. It is like saying an apple, orange and a plum are all fruit yet they have differing characteristics and no one would call these three fruits the same fruit.

 

[cvanwey]

It’s indisputable. Muslims worship the God of Israel. They don’t worship a different God. They worship the same God the Jews worship. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet of Allah.

I get what you are saying. But please acknowledge that the 'same god' cannot have opposing moral predicates. This would be a logical contradiction.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I disagree. Believing God is one and believing God is three entities/persons etc. are not describing the same God. They also have many contradictory characteristics between the Jewish, Christian and Muslim god. That is logically impossible. It is like saying an apple, orange and a plum are all fruit yet they have differing characteristics and no one would call these three fruits the same fruit.

Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God that created Adam & Eve, the same God that told Noah to build the ark, the same God that killed all except 8 people in the flood, the same God that made a covenant with Abraham, the same God that guided Moses and the Israelites from Egypt to Israel, the same God that gave Moses the Torah, the same God that blessed David when he defeated Goliath. Muslims, Jews, and Christians believe the Torah and the psalms are the inspired word of God. Muslims believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ but they believe it has been corrupted over time. Just because there are differences in their beliefs doesn’t mean they worship a different God. Here’s an example. Some people believe Trump is responsible for the Covid outbreak in America, some don’t. Are these people talking about two different Trumps? Some people believe Bruce Lee was the best fighter in his time, some don’t. Are they believing in two different Bruce Lees? Just because people have different beliefs about someone doesn’t mean they’re beliefs are about two different people. Only one God greater Adam. Only one God told Noah to build the ark. Only one God flooded the earth killing all but 8 people. Only one God gave Moses the Torah. Whether you want to call Him God, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, Creator, Maker, One, The Alpha and Omega, The First and Last, The King of Kings, I Am, The Almighty, Lord, The Lord of Lords, Heavenly Father, Theos, The God of Israel, The God of Jacob, The God of Abraham, it’s still the same one and only God.