Trinity

[Clintjohnson]

essence is what you are, person is who you are. So God is one “what” but three “who’s.”

I see, makes sense your well versed on the Trinity. What about a verse in the bible that says the Father is greater then I?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi, I am new here and a new Christian. I wanted to know about the trinity. People say the 3 persons of the trinity are equal. My opinion at the moment is that the Father is at the top of the trinity over the son and holy spirit. Is this wrong to believe.

From the surface of it, that would sound like what is called Subordinationism, that there is a "hierarchy" in the Trinity, with the Father at the top, the Son and the Spirit below.

Subordinationism is regarded as a heretical idea. But it's understandable why one could make that mistake.

What's important to understand is that the Three Persons are of one Being, or Substance, or Essence. That is, a single, undivided, "What". In the Nicene Creed we confess that the Son is "homoousios" with the Father, this Greek word is translated as "of the same Being". It means that even as the Father is God, so also the Son is God. Not two Gods, but one God, because the Son is the same What as the Father, He is of the Father's own Being or Essence.

This is also true of the Holy Spirit, who is God with the Father and the Son.

So we say, for example (quoting one of the ancient confessions of faith, the Athanasian Creed), "We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons, nor dividing the Substance."

Both of these are important:

1) There is one undivided Being/Essence/Substance.
2) There are three Divine Persons.

So that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. But not three Gods, but one God. Not three Lords, but one Lord. Not three Almighties, or three Eternals, but One Almighty and Eternal God and Lord. Yet, the Father is not the Son, just as the Son is not the Father; neither is the Father the Holy Spirit or the Son the Holy Spirit. There is no confusion of the Three Persons, and there is no division of the One Substance.

So we say that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are equal in glory, power, majesty, and eternity, because of the Undivided Being; i.e. Each is truly God, the one and only God. Because the Son is the same God as the Father, for He is of the Father's own Being, then He shares in His Father's glory, power, majesty, and eternity, being all which the Father is. So if the Father is Almighty, then the Son is Almighty, and the Spirit likewise Almighty. If the Father is Uncreated, then the Son is Uncreated, and the Spirit likewise Uncreated. So that, indeed, the Son and the Spirit are truly equal with the Father, there is no hierarchy, no subordination, but true Unity in Being.

But as for what we see in the relational dynamics of the Persons, that is, how the Three choose to relate to one another, we do see something. For the Father sent the Son, and both the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit. The Son chooses to glorify the Father, even as the Spirit chooses to glorify the Son and the Father (and so forth). This is not a subordination, but rather an invitation to see something of the Mystery of God.

The Father isn't demanding of the Son and the Spirit, instead the Father is giving Himself to the Son and the Spirit. For the Father pours forth Himself in love to His Son, and the Son likewise pours forth Himself in love back to the Father. This love is poured forth from One to Another: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So what we see isn't a hierarchy, or a subordinating; but rather Love-in-Action. The love which the Father has for the Son, the love which the Son has for the Father, the love of the Holy Spirit; and it is precisely this love that we see, and behold, in Jesus who became flesh, was crucified, buried, and rose again. This love has now been poured forth out for the world, and we have been invited to now share in this love.

So that, in Christ, we have been adopted as God's children as joint-heirs with Christ; sharing in Christ's Sonship by grace. Having the Spirit in us, by which we can call the Father of Christ our own loving Father.

We have been given the privilege to peek and share in this love of God, which is ultimately what brings all things to their future glory and purpose: When, in the end, God makes all things new, world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Neogaia777]

Hi, I am new here and a new Christian. I wanted to know about the trinity. People say the 3 persons of the trinity are equal. My opinion at the moment is that the Father is at the top of the trinity over the son and holy spirit. Is this wrong to believe.

People will say it's heresy if you hold to this idea, but it is essentially correct and is a good start, don't give up on it, it is their ideas that are heretical and not scriptural or biblical either, and are "dogmatic" as they are steeped in their dogma...

God Bless!

 

[dms1972]

Those twins know a little more than they are letting on!

All these comparisons are prone to mislead if taken too strictly - like the twins in the video [post #14] are doing. I don't think St. Patrick's analogy with the shamrock was meant to be a strict analogy. The Trinity is after all a Holy Mystery - some people forget that.

Scripture gives the best way of understanding the Godhead: Father-Son-Holy Spirit. One God in Three Divine Persons-in-relation. The One in Three, and Three in One.

 

[Not David]

Why are you replying when he was thanking me? He thanked you in another post.

You are welcome Loversofjesus!

If you check the post I answered to, he was addressing me.

 

[Mathetes66]

"I see, makes sense your well versed on the Trinity. What about a verse in the bible that says the Father is greater then I?"

Thanks, brother Clint for your encouragement & I am glad you have found my posts a blessing! The quote above is not hard to figure out when you understand that the Lord Jesus Christ was God in spirit (essence or nature of God & able to fill the whole universe as spirit) BEFORE He came to earth the first time.

But when God the Son was incarnated (came down to earth in the flesh as a human man, the Son of Man), He voluntarily chose certain limitations as a man, although He remained God continuously. But now He had two natures, one as a human man & one as God the Son.

Thus the Son purposed to humble Himself & come to earth, born as a human being, making Himself of no reputation & living on this planet. As a man He can say, the Father is greater than I with no problem or without blinking an eye because as a human being certain finite things limited His human body.

Also the relationship of the Father to the Son is biblically defined as deferring honor to the Father. Yet Scripture shows that Jesus as God is to be recognized AT THE SAME TIME as equal to the Father IN THE SAME CHAPTER.

John 5:23 ...So that all will honor the Son IN THE SAME WAY AS they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. (see also John 10:33; John 1:1, etc.)

Phil 2:6-11
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider EQUALITY WITH GOD
something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself & became obedient to death—even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place & gave Him the name above all names, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven & on earth and under the earth & every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Do not be tempted to isolate a verse OUT OF ITS CONTEXT. You will make mistakes (& sometimes serious ones) in missing the meaning & intent of the writer. Read over John chapter 5 & the whole context talks about the Deity of Christ! Christ is working the same things the Father is working! The Father gives life to people; so does the Son, etc.

Here are some more websites that address this very issue. Let Scripture in its context interpret Scripture.


John 14:28, "The Father is greater than I." | CARM.org


If Jesus was God, why did He say "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28?


How is the Father Greater than Jesus while also Equal?


John 14:28 Commentaries: "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


Jesus says that the Father is greater than he is, proving that he is not God.

Hope that helps answer your question. Blessings!

 

[Clintjohnson]

That sums it up thanks and this from the link:

1. Heb. 2:9, "But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone."

 

[~Zao~]

Hi, I am new here and a new Christian. I wanted to know about the trinity. People say the 3 persons of the trinity are equal. My opinion at the moment is that the Father is at the top of the trinity over the son and holy spirit. Is this wrong to believe.

Many say that Jesus was inferior to the Father, even Jesus said that! After all no good thing ever came from the flesh and Jesus was in the flesh when on earth. He had to depend on the guidance given to Him thru the Father, doing as He saw done. But the resurrected Christ has a resurrected body, just as we will in the coming age. As resurrected beings seated with Christ we’re still very much flesh, yet we’re commanded to look up and assume our seat there. Does that make us equal to Christ? It makes us equal in training because we have that same learning obedience as we are led by the Spirit. We are all children of God. But God differentiates His essence from ours. Essentially we have been adopted/adapted into the root to produce fruit of the right nature. Christ and the Father have the essential nature to begin with. Hierarchy is about the nature of God. Maybe in eternity we will be able to understand better but at this time the only hierarchy I’m concerned with is assimilating what Jesus had to learn about living in the flesh, so that I too can be one that is known to Him, as He was known to God, in the hope that we shall all be one.

 

[Mathetes66]

"Many say that Jesus was inferior to the Father, even Jesus said that! After all no good thing ever came from the flesh & Jesus was in the flesh when on earth."

This statement borders on false teaching, according to the Holy Scriptures. Scripture does not say Jesus is 'inferior' to the Father but that the Father is greater than Himself in terms of His being incarnated & taking on a human body.

But Jesus is God & equal with the Father in terms of Deity, not inferior in that sense at all. Both Persons are God by nature or essence. All 3 Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son (Word) & the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct Persons that are the one Being of God.

Second, your implication that, IF no good thing comes from the flesh AND Jesus was in the flesh, therefore the HUMANISTIC LOGICAL conclusion is that no good thing came from Jesus. And that is simply false teaching & heretical!


2 Cor 5:21 God made the One WHO KNEW NO SIN to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God IN HIM. [NOT AS HIM; WE ARE NOT GOD NOR DO WE EVER BECOME GOD OR GODS]

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have One who was tempted in every way that we are, YET WAS WITHOUT SIN.

I Pet 2:22 "He COMMITTED NO SIN & NO DECEIT was found in His mouth."

I John 3:5 But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins & IN HIM THERE IS NO SIN.

Acts 3:14 You rejected the Holy & Righteous One & asked that a murderer be released to you.

In other words, Christ did not ever know sin, in His thoughts; He never committed sin in His actions, He never had sin within Himself, in His heart, no sin was found in Him. He was tempted in every way that other human beings were tempted but in all those situations, He never once sinned in thought, word or deed. Jesus was innocent of any wrongdoing.

Had He even done 1 sin, He could not have propitiated our sins before the Father & would have needed a sacrificial offering for Himself.

"But the resurrected Christ has a resurrected body, just as we will in the coming age. As resurrected beings seated with Christ we’re still very much flesh, yet we’re commanded to look up and assume our seat there. Does that make us equal to Christ? It makes us equal in training because we have that same learning obedience as we are led by the Spirit."

Again this is bordering on heresy & false teaching. We are not equal to Christ in any way. We may by His grace sit & co-rule in His millenial kingdom on earth, but being a co-ruler, as the Body of Christ, in no way makes us co-equal with Christ.

And we have not yet been resurrected--the resurrection of the dead in resurrected bodies has NOT happened. And we are not equal in training with Christ because His suffering & His death was for the sins of the world & taking the wrath of God for us in our place. Our suffering is not taking the wrath of God on ourselves but involves the hatred of the world against us & the hatred of the devil, who accuses us day & night.

Hebrews 7:26 Such a high priest truly befits us--One who is HOLY, INNOCENT, UNDEFILED, SET APART FROM SINNERS--& exalted ABOVE the heavens.

Eph 4:10 He who descended is the very one who ascended above all the heavens, in order to fill all things.

 

[Neogaia777]

The Trinity consists of YHWH or the Holy Spirit, the original Son of God, and Jesus Christ who is also a Son of God, who became the Son of God, and the Father God who is above them both, and above us all, who is the only one who has been 100% fully omniscient from the beginning...

That is the trinity...

They were all present in the beginning, and while not all three were always equal, they are all three together equally our God...

A son of Man is a Son of YHWH... YHWH was the original Son of God, and still is, but now together and One with Christ also a/the Son of God, and are both One now with the always 100% fully omniscient Father God "now"...

The Son of Man is a Son of YHWH and is one who bears his name, a Son of God, is one who is a Son of the always 100% fully omniscient from the beginning Father God directly, of which both YHWH and Jesus are, and were from and in the very beginning...

YHWH is the Holy Spirit... We are all, most of us, Son's of Him, or Sons of Men or Man, YHWH was like a Man who was a King who had all power and authority, but without all-knowledge, at the time, in the OT anyway...

And this needs to noted: One is not guilty of anything He or She is or might have been ignorant of at the time, they are still 100% pure and innocent and not guilty at all of what they may have been lacking or were ignorant of once before... Still pure, ect...

Jesus challenged YHWH, and YHWH challenged Jesus, at first, before the two became One... Jesus went to where the 100% always omniscient One was, after His resurrection and ascension... Now, and after that, Jesus is both here and there, both in the realms with us and also where the Father is or the realms above us, He is in, and exists in both places at once...

YHWH or the Holy Spirit may be just here and not there, maybe, and/but is all around us, and in us also on ground level with us... But may not be in the realms above us right now like Christ is, but both of those ones are "here with us"... One is the light and is wherever there is light and is Jesus Christ... The other one is shrouded in darkness and has a dark covering... Both are here is this atmosphere with us, and YHWH is both in us and around us...

This is our trinity...

These are our God or God's... They are now One, but might not have been always or were separated from each other at or after the fall... Jesus restored that union, in what some might deem a very questionable manner, but, it worked, of that I can guarantee you...

And another note: "I will not commit the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by calling YHWH Satan", although I did come very close to that more than a few times to get "here" with "this" that I am sharing with you now...

This knowledge came at a high price for me, and I was not the first one either...

Anyway, there it is, take or leave it, up to you...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The Trinity consists of YHWH or the Holy Spirit, the original Son of God, and Jesus Christ who is also a Son of God, who became the Son of God, and the Father God who is above them both, and above us all, who is the only one who has been 100% fully omniscient from the beginning...

That is the trinity...

They were all present in the beginning, and while not all three were always equal, they are all three together equally our God...

A son of Man is a Son of YHWH... YHWH was the original Son of God, and still is, but now together and One with Christ also a/the Son of God, and are both One now with the always 100% fully omniscient Father God "now"...

The Son of Man is a Son of YHWH and is one who bears his name, a Son of God, is one who is a Son of the always 100% fully omniscient from the beginning Father God directly, of which both YHWH and Jesus are, and were from and in the very beginning...

YHWH is the Holy Spirit... We are all, most of us, Son's of Him, or Sons of Men or Man, YHWH was like a Man who was a King who had all power and authority, but without all-knowledge, at the time, in the OT anyway...

And this needs to noted: One is not guilty of anything He or She is or might have been ignorant of at the time, they are still 100% pure and innocent and not guilty at all of what they may have been lacking or were ignorant of once before... Still pure, ect...

Jesus challenged YHWH, and YHWH challenged Jesus, at first, before the two became One... Jesus went to where the 100% always omniscient One was, after His resurrection and ascension... Now, and after that, Jesus is both here and there, both in the realms with us and also where the Father is or the realms above us, He is in, and exists in both places at once...

YHWH or the Holy Spirit may be just here and not there, maybe, and/but is all around us, and in us also on ground level with us... But may not be in the realms above us right now like Christ is, but both of those ones are "here with us"... One is the light and is wherever there is light and is Jesus Christ... The other one is shrouded in darkness and has a dark covering... Both are here is this atmosphere with us, and YHWH is both in us and around us...

This is our trinity...

These are our God or God's... They are now One, but might not have been always or were separated from each other at or after the fall... Jesus restored that union, in what some might deem a very questionable manner, but, it worked, of that I can guarantee you...

And another note: "I will not commit the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by calling YHWH Satan", although I did come very close to that more than a few times to get "here" with "this" that I am sharing with you now...

This knowledge came at a high price for me, and I was not the first one either...

Anyway, there it is, take or leave it, up to you...

God Bless!

You should be able to hear YHWH speaking to you... And to Hear Christ also, He speaks with you when you are being yourself, a man, and more importantly, when you are speaking with YOUR OWN VOICE, cause that's when He speaks to you and with you, and that is when you will hear Him...

They will come from different directions, and there may seem to be some differences and maybe even some contention, but they are our God's, remember Jesus is both here and there... Jesus is calmer and cooler and it will seem as if nothing bothers Him ever, while the other one, it may seem sometimes that everything bothers Him sometimes...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The Trinity consists of YHWH or the Holy Spirit, the original Son of God, and Jesus Christ who is also a Son of God, who became the Son of God, and the Father God who is above them both, and above us all, who is the only one who has been 100% fully omniscient from the beginning...

That is the trinity...

They were all present in the beginning, and while not all three were always equal, they are all three together equally our God...

A son of Man is a Son of YHWH... YHWH was the original Son of God, and still is, but now together and One with Christ also a/the Son of God, and are both One now with the always 100% fully omniscient Father God "now"...

The Son of Man is a Son of YHWH and is one who bears his name, a Son of God, is one who is a Son of the always 100% fully omniscient from the beginning Father God directly, of which both YHWH and Jesus are, and were from and in the very beginning...

YHWH is the Holy Spirit... We are all, most of us, Son's of Him, or Sons of Men or Man, YHWH was like a Man who was a King who had all power and authority, but without all-knowledge, at the time, in the OT anyway...

And this needs to noted: One is not guilty of anything He or She is or might have been ignorant of at the time, they are still 100% pure and innocent and not guilty at all of what they may have been lacking or were ignorant of once before... Still pure, ect...

Jesus challenged YHWH, and YHWH challenged Jesus, at first, before the two became One... Jesus went to where the 100% always omniscient One was, after His resurrection and ascension... Now, and after that, Jesus is both here and there, both in the realms with us and also where the Father is or the realms above us, He is in, and exists in both places at once...

YHWH or the Holy Spirit may be just here and not there, maybe, and/but is all around us, and in us also on ground level with us... But may not be in the realms above us right now like Christ is, but both of those ones are "here with us"... One is the light and is wherever there is light and is Jesus Christ... The other one is shrouded in darkness and has a dark covering... Both are here is this atmosphere with us, and YHWH is both in us and around us...

This is our trinity...

These are our God or God's... They are now One, but might not have been always or were separated from each other at or after the fall... Jesus restored that union, in what some might deem a very questionable manner, but, it worked, of that I can guarantee you...

And another note: "I will not commit the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by calling YHWH Satan", although I did come very close to that more than a few times to get "here" with "this" that I am sharing with you now...

This knowledge came at a high price for me, and I was not the first one either...

Anyway, there it is, take or leave it, up to you...

God Bless!

You should be able to hear YHWH speaking to you... And to Hear Christ also, He speaks with you when you are being yourself, a man, and more importantly, when you are speaking with YOUR OWN VOICE, cause that's when He speaks to you and with you, and that is when you will hear Him...

They will come from different directions, and there may seem to be some differences and maybe even some contention, but they are our God's, remember Jesus is both here and there... Jesus is calmer and cooler and it will seem as if nothing bothers Him ever, while the other one, it may seem sometimes that everything bothers Him sometimes...

God Bless!

There is supposed to be a way we ourselves can be or become Sons of God the Father like Christ, to go from Sons of Man or Men, to Sons of God like Christ, but, I don't know what it entails yet, and do not know if I am ready to do what it might entail yet...?

YHWH is not Satan... Satan operates in wicked men, in High places, ect, (and some other or lower places to, sometimes) this will be evident that he is not when He talks with you about all the problems He has with these men... That Satan is in and operates in ect...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Contenders Edge]

Hi, I am new here and a new Christian. I wanted to know about the trinity. People say the 3 persons of the trinity are equal. My opinion at the moment is that the Father is at the top of the trinity over the son and holy spirit. Is this wrong to believe.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three-in-one and one-in-three. There is no doubt a hierarchy, but they possess the same character and nature and are all equal in the attributes that they possess. No person within the triune Godhead is less or more than the other.

Even the best theologians cannot fully understand this relationship and the reason for that is that we are not triune as God is triune. We are only singular and singular beings will never be able to fully understand a triune relationship, at least not until we stand before the Lord our God.

The question comes down to this: Do we accept that Jesus is who He says He is or do we not? Do we accept that the Triune Godhead is who they say they are or do we not?

What we can know and understand about the Triune Godhead is what scripture says about it, but beyond that, we in our finite mindset will never be able to comprehend this nature for as the scripture says at present, we only “know in part”. (1 Cor. 13:9)

It is because people, even with well-meaning intent have attempted to understand what cannot be fully understood and make sense out of what cannot fully be made sense of concerning God that many false doctrines and heresies pertaining to the Triune Godhead have arisen and such doctrines end up making the Triune Godhead something that it is not, one or more persons within the Godhead less than they are, or an outright denial of the Triune relationship altogether.

And we need to be careful that we do not fall into the same errors regarding the Triune relationship.

 

[Neogaia777]

@Clintjohnson

Many of these people who are trying to teach you about the Trinity, are following the teachings of men, not scripture of the Bible, which is why they are so confused about it, or say it's "so mysterious and beyond figuring out", when really it's just "not", so...

Try to keep that in mind please...

God Bless!

 

[Mathetes66]

"The Trinity consists of YHWH or the Holy Spirit, the original Son of God, and Jesus Christ who is also a Son of God, who became the Son of God, and the Father God who is above them both, and above us all, who is the only one who has been 100% fully omniscient from the beginning...That is the trinity..."

While this may be a trinity in your eyes & understanding, this is NOT the Trinity of the Holy Scriptures. This is a false teaching, one of many down through history, that has sought to distort the Biblical truth of the Triune God of Christianity.

You strange & unbiblical teachings sound like the eternal progression false teachings of Mormonism or the demonically inspired teachings of the book of Urantia. Do you believe in & belong to either of these aberrent teachings? Where did you learn these & what is the name of the group to which you belong or church?

"YHWH is the Holy Spirit... We are all, most of us, Son's of Him, or Sons of Men or Man, YHWH was like a Man who was a King who had all power and authority, but without all-knowledge, at the time, in the OT anyway..."

You state only the Holy Spirit is YHWH but not Jesus or the Father are also called YHWH as all through the Bible all three are called by God's memorial name, YHWH.

And you teach that the Holy Spirit was like a man, who was a king who had all power & authority (omnipotent) but without all knowledge (NOT omniscient) at the time in the OT. He was the original or first Son of Man not Adam. And we are all sons of this man, this king, who does not know all things.

Yet Scripture directly contradicts you, showing your definition is false as to the Scriptural Holy Spirit or Triune God.

The Holy Spirit is spirit not flesh & not a man & was never a king who had all power but didn't know all things.

I Cor 2:10,11 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit & no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit.

Isaiah 11:3 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him—the Spirit of WISDOM & UNDERSTANDING, the Spirit of counsel & strength, the Spirit of KNOWLEDGE...

Isaiah 40:13,14
Who has directed the Spirit of YHWH, or informed Him as His counselor? Whom did He consult to enlighten Him & who taught Him the paths of justice? Who imparted knowledge to Him& showed Him the way of understanding?

Romans 11:33-35 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom & knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments & untraceable His ways! 34“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?” 35“Who has first given to God, that God should repay him? For from Him & through Him & to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever! Amen.

The obvious answer to these rhetorical questions is NO ONE. The Holy Spirit IS OMNISCIENT & has always been because He is NOT A MAN OR A KING BUT GOD! It also indicates that God the Father is also called YHWH in the verse in Isaiah 40, showing, He too, is recognized by the memorial name of God. And Jesus is also YHWH, declaring Himself the 'I AM' (YHWH) in John 8:58 & various other passages.

The New Testament quotes this verse also, showing the Holy Spirit is God, also called the Lord & refers to the Holy Spirit has having the knowledge of God, showing once again He is omniscient from eternity to eternity.

The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Biblical Trinity, who intrinsically possesses the one nature, essence & substance that is God & who is like the Father & the Son, omnipotent, omniscient AND omnipresent.

Psalm 139:7-10 Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle by the farthest sea, even there Your hand will guide me; Your right hand will hold me fast.

Job 21:22 “But who can teach a lesson to God, since He judges even the most powerful on high?

I Peter 1:11,12 It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

The Holy Spirit is not an angel & angels don't know everything; they are created beings not eternal like the Holy Spirit is, as God.

The Bible says we Christians are to test the spirits, to see if they be of God.

I John 4:1-6,15 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many FALSE prophets have gone out into the world.

2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is THE SPIRIT OF THE ANTICHRIST, which you heard was coming & now is in the world already.

4Little children, you are from God & have OVERCOME them, for he who is in you is GREATER than he who is in the world.

5They are FROM the world; therefore they speak from the world & the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is NOT from God does NOT listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth AND the spirit of ERROR. Whosoever will confess that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, God dwells in him & he in God.

I John 2:18-24,26 Children, it is the last hour & as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now MANY ANTICHRISTS HAVE COME. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 19They went OUT from us, but they were NOT of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become PLAIN that they ALL ARE NOT OF US.

20But you have been anointed by the Holy One & you all have knowledge. 21I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23NO ONE who DENIES THE SON has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 24Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son & in the Father.

26I write these things to you about THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE YOU. But the anointing that you received from Him abides in you & you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about everything & is TRUE & is NO LIE—just as it has taught you, abide in Him.

"This is our trinity..".

No, this is not Christianity's Triune God; this is your false trinity. This God has nothing to do with the Triune God of the Bible; it is a spurious definition that repeatedly does not agree with Scripture. And you say 'our.' With what group or church or organization are you affiliated?

"These are our God or God's... They are now One, but might not have been always or were separated from each other at or after the fall."

Christians worship only one God not God's as you falsely teach. These false gods may have been separated from each other at or after the fall, but God is ONE & manifests Himself in 3 Persons, who are the One God from eternity to eternity. None of the 3 Persons have a beginning like you show.

The Athanasian Creed

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic (universal) faith. Whoever does not guard it whole & inviolable will doubtless perish eternally. Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity & the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.

For the Father is one person, the Son is another & the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, co-eternal in majesty.

What the Father is, the Son is & so is the Holy Spirit. Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.

The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.

Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated & unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated & unlimited.

Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.

Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.

As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic (universal) religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father & the Son.

Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.

And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, co-eternal & co-equal & so we must worship the Trinity in unity & the one God in three persons.

Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity. It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh.

For this is the true faith that we believe & confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God & man.

He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father & he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother -- existing fully as God & fully as man with a rational soul & a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.

Although he is God & man, he is not divided, but is one Christ. He is united because God has taken humanity into Himself; He does not transform deity into humanity.

He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing His natures.
For as the rational soul & body are one person, so the one Christ is God & man.

He suffered death for our salvation. He descended into hell & rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven & is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living & the dead.

At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done evil will enter eternal fire. This is the catholic faith. One cannot be saved without believing this firmly & faithfully.

2 John 1:7-11 For many DECEIVERS have gone out into the world, REFUSING to confess the COMING of Jesus Christ IN THE FLESH. Any such person is the deceiver & the ANTICHRIST. 8Watch yourselves, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, that you may be fully rewarded. 9Anyone who runs ahead WITHOUT REMAINING IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST DOES NOT HAVE GOD. Whoever remains in His teaching has BOTH the Father AND the Son.

10If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. 11Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds.

Jesus Christ was not A Son of God & changed into THE Son of God but has eternally been THE ONLY SON OF GOD, CO-EQUAL WITH THE FATHER & THE SPIRIT, all three distinct persons possessing the one Being of God.

Hebrews 13:8,9 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday & today & forever. Do not be carried (led) away by all kinds of strange teachings...

 

[Neogaia777]

While this may be a trinity in your eyes & understanding, this is NOT the Trinity of the Holy Scriptures. This is a false teaching, one of many down through history, that has sought to distort the Biblical truth of the Triune God of Christianity.

You strange & unbiblical teachings sound like the eternal progression false teachings of Mormonism or the demonically inspired teachings of the book of Urantia. Do you believe in & belong to either of these aberrent teachings? Where did you learn these & what is the name of the group to which you belong or church?



You state only the Holy Spirit is YHWH but not Jesus or the Father are also called YHWH as all through the Bible all three are called by God's memorial name, YHWH.

And you teach that the Holy Spirit was like a man, who was a king who had all power & authority (omnipotent) but without all knowledge (NOT omniscient) at the time in the OT. He was the original or first Son of Man not Adam. And we are all sons of this man, this king, who does not know all things.

Yet Scripture directly contradicts you, showing your definition is false as to the Scriptural Holy Spirit or Triune God.

The Holy Spirit is spirit not flesh & not a man & was never a king who had all power but didn't know all things.

I Cor 2:10,11 But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit & no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit.

Isaiah 11:3 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him—the Spirit of WISDOM & UNDERSTANDING, the Spirit of counsel & strength, the Spirit of KNOWLEDGE...

Isaiah 40:13,14
Who has directed the Spirit of YHWH, or informed Him as His counselor? Whom did He consult to enlighten Him & who taught Him the paths of justice? Who imparted knowledge to Him& showed Him the way of understanding?

Romans 11:33-35 O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom & knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments & untraceable His ways! 34“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been His counselor?” 35“Who has first given to God, that God should repay him? For from Him & through Him & to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever! Amen.

The obvious answer to these rhetorical questions is NO ONE. The Holy Spirit IS OMNISCIENT & has always been because He is NOT A MAN OR A KING BUT GOD! It also indicates that God the Father is also called YHWH in the verse in Isaiah 40, showing, He too, is recognized by the memorial name of God. And Jesus is also YHWH, declaring Himself the 'I AM' (YHWH) in John 8:58 & various other passages.

The New Testament quotes this verse also, showing the Holy Spirit is God, also called the Lord & refers to the Holy Spirit has having the knowledge of God, showing once again He is omniscient from eternity to eternity.

The Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Biblical Trinity, who intrinsically possesses the one nature, essence & substance that is God & who is like the Father & the Son, omnipotent, omniscient AND omnipresent.

Psalm 139:7-10 Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle by the farthest sea, even there Your hand will guide me; Your right hand will hold me fast.

Job 21:22 “But who can teach a lesson to God, since He judges even the most powerful on high?

I Peter 1:11,12 It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

The Holy Spirit is not an angel & angels don't know everything; they are created beings not eternal like the Holy Spirit is, as God.

The Bible says we Christians are to test the spirits, to see if they be of God.

I John 4:1-6,15 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many FALSE prophets have gone out into the world.

2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is THE SPIRIT OF THE ANTICHRIST, which you heard was coming & now is in the world already.

4Little children, you are from God & have OVERCOME them, for he who is in you is GREATER than he who is in the world.

5They are FROM the world; therefore they speak from the world & the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is NOT from God does NOT listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth AND the spirit of ERROR. Whosoever will confess that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD, God dwells in him & he in God.

I John 2:18-24,26 Children, it is the last hour & as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now MANY ANTICHRISTS HAVE COME. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 19They went OUT from us, but they were NOT of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become PLAIN that they ALL ARE NOT OF US.

20But you have been anointed by the Holy One & you all have knowledge. 21I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23NO ONE who DENIES THE SON has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 24Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son & in the Father.

26I write these things to you about THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO DECEIVE YOU. But the anointing that you received from Him abides in you & you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about everything & is TRUE & is NO LIE—just as it has taught you, abide in Him.



No, this is not Christianity's Triune God; this is your false trinity. This God has nothing to do with the Triune God of the Bible; it is a spurious definition that repeatedly does not agree with Scripture. And you say 'our.' With what group or church or organization are you affiliated?



Christians worship only one God not God's as you falsely teach. These false gods may have been separated from each other at or after the fall, but God is ONE & manifests Himself in 3 Persons, who are the One God from eternity to eternity. None of the 3 Persons have a beginning like you show.

The Athanasian Creed

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic (universal) faith. Whoever does not guard it whole & inviolable will doubtless perish eternally. Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity & the Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine being.

For the Father is one person, the Son is another & the Spirit is still another. But the deity of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory, co-eternal in majesty.

What the Father is, the Son is & so is the Holy Spirit. Uncreated is the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.

The Father is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.

Eternal is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit: And yet there are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not three uncreated & unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated & unlimited.

Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is almighty.

Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is God: And yet there are not three gods, but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord: And yet there are not three lords, but one Lord.

As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic (universal) religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father & the Son.

Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.

And in this Trinity, no one is before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons are in themselves, co-eternal & co-equal & so we must worship the Trinity in unity & the one God in three persons.

Whoever wants to be saved should think thus about the Trinity. It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe that our Lord Jesus Christ became flesh.

For this is the true faith that we believe & confess: That our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God & man.

He is God, begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father & he is man, born in the world from the being of his mother -- existing fully as God & fully as man with a rational soul & a human body; equal to the Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.

Although he is God & man, he is not divided, but is one Christ. He is united because God has taken humanity into Himself; He does not transform deity into humanity.

He is completely one in the unity of his person, without confusing His natures.
For as the rational soul & body are one person, so the one Christ is God & man.

He suffered death for our salvation. He descended into hell & rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven & is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living & the dead.

At his coming all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done evil will enter eternal fire. This is the catholic faith. One cannot be saved without believing this firmly & faithfully.

2 John 1:7-11 For many DECEIVERS have gone out into the world, REFUSING to confess the COMING of Jesus Christ IN THE FLESH. Any such person is the deceiver & the ANTICHRIST. 8Watch yourselves, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, that you may be fully rewarded. 9Anyone who runs ahead WITHOUT REMAINING IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST DOES NOT HAVE GOD. Whoever remains in His teaching has BOTH the Father AND the Son.

10If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. 11Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds.

Jesus Christ was not A Son of God & changed into THE Son of God but has eternally been THE ONLY SON OF GOD, CO-EQUAL WITH THE FATHER & THE SPIRIT, all three distinct persons possessing the one Being of God.

Hebrews 13:8,9 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday & today & forever. Do not be carried (led) away by all kinds of strange teachings...

YHWH is the name or a species or race or certain class of beings, (Sons of God) even angels carry the name YHWH, but for simplicities sake I did not want to get into that...

YHWH means God, or god of, or lord of, or king of, when something, or some other word is added to it or comes after it... For example YHWH Shalom, is God, or god, or lord, or king of "peace", as one example... It is technically an angel and is the angel of peace...

They are all one, but not necessarily all equal, but all of one body... With God as the "head" I guess you could say in this instance, or brain, or mind... Jesus is the "mouth" I guess you could say, or the word or is God's Word or words, that have creative and destructive powers in this instance, as it tells the rest of the body what to do, where to go, ect...

YHWH is the name of a class of beings or species that are all "one" but not all necessarily equal or perform the same function, ect...

And, I do not follow the teachings of men, but the Bible only...

God Bless!

 

[Grip Docility]

YHWH is the name or a species or race or certain class of beings, (Sons of God) even angels carry the name YHWH, but for simplicities sake I did not want to get into that...

YHWH means God, or god of, or lord of, or king of, when something, or some other word is added to it or comes after it... For example YHWH Shalom, is God, or god, or lord, or king of "peace", as one example... It is technically an angel and is the angel of peace...

They are all one, but not necessarily all equal, but all of one body... With God as the "head" I guess you could say in this instance, or brain, or mind... Jesus is the "mouth" I guess you could say, or the word or is God's Word or words, that have creative and destructive powers in this instance, as it tells the rest of the body what to do, where to go, ect...

YHWH is the name of a class of beings or species that are all "one" but not all necessarily equal or perform the same function, ect...

And, I do not follow the teachings of men, but the Bible only...

God Bless!

Hit the brakes... There’s only One Great I am in Essence. That’s what the Bible teaches - Deuteronomy 6:4

Species? Race?

This is not what the Bible teaches and you are claiming to only believe what the Bible teaches.

 

[Neogaia777]

Hit the brakes... There’s only One Great I am in Essence.

Species? Race?

Whatever you want to call it/them, a "race", "species", "certain class of beings", ect...

Higher than us... But in some ways, some might say in many ways, much like us, yet also not like us also at the same time...

God Bless!

 

[Grip Docility]

Whatever you want to call it/them, a "race", "species", "certain class of beings", ect...

Higher than us... But in some ways, some might say in many ways, much like us, yet also not like us also at the same time...

God Bless!

No Beings to it. The Bible teaches “Being” singular.

 

[Neogaia777]

YHWH is the name or a species or race or certain class of beings, (Sons of God) even angels carry the name YHWH, but for simplicities sake I did not want to get into that...

YHWH means God, or god of, or lord of, or king of, when something, or some other word is added to it or comes after it... For example YHWH Shalom, is God, or god, or lord, or king of "peace", as one example... It is technically an angel and is the angel of peace...

They are all one, but not necessarily all equal, but all of one body... With God as the "head" I guess you could say in this instance, or brain, or mind... Jesus is the "mouth" I guess you could say, or the word or is God's Word or words, that have creative and destructive powers in this instance, as it tells the rest of the body what to do, where to go, ect...

YHWH is the name of a class of beings or species that are all "one" but not all necessarily equal or perform the same function, ect...

And, I do not follow the teachings of men, but the Bible only...

God Bless!

But then of course there is "The YHWH" with nothing after it, this one was the original "The" "Son of God" the Father, the original Chief of the (other) Sons of God... But then that is also what Jesus claimed to be as well, isn't it...

God Bless!