Trinity

[Archivist]

Don't think that one member of the Trinity is the Boss to whom the others report. That may work in human organizations, but it isn't how God works.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Hi, I am new here and a new Christian. I wanted to know about the trinity. People say the 3 persons of the trinity are equal. My opinion at the moment is that the Father is at the top of the trinity over the son and holy spirit. Is this wrong to believe.

I think you'll find it difficult to model. The quick and easy models are all heresey: the Trinity is like an egg, the Trinity is like 3 states of matter, the trinity is like us (body, soul, spirit)...and there are others I'm sure, those are just the ones I hear the most.

The three main models, that I'm aware of, that try to work this out within trinitarianism (while trying to navigate carefully between tri-theism or modalism) are:

Social Trinitarianism
Latin Trinitarianism
Relative Trinitarianism

refs: https://www.iep.utm.edu/trinity/
Trinity > History of Trinitarian Doctrines (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Trinity (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

book: https://www.amazon.com/Monotheism-P...se+monotheism&qid=1561573909&s=gateway&sr=8-1

The problem with these models is that though they're carefully constructed, a least some of them probably do fall into either tritheism or modalism, and so at least some of them are probably no better off than the simple models of eggs, matter or ourselves. So tread carefully.

The best thing to do is probably just to stick with what's read in the pages of the bible and the historic creeds; leave the rest to speculation.


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[PaulCyp1]

God is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. "Infinitely" means "cannot be greater". The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore the Father is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. The Son is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. The Holy Spirit is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. If any one of them was less powerful or less knowledgeable than the Father, tat one would not be God, and therefore could not be part of the Trinity.

 

[danielmears]

Hi, I am new here and a new Christian. I wanted to know about the trinity. People say the 3 persons of the trinity are equal. My opinion at the moment is that the Father is at the top of the trinity over the son and holy spirit. Is this wrong to believe.

Christ himself said, God is greater than I in John 14:28 so actually I believe you are on point which really takes nothing away from his oneness. He also prayed we too, be one, in John 17:21, all of us one!

 

[Not David]

Christ himself said, God is greater than I in John 14:28 so actually I believe you are on point which really takes nothing away from his oneness. He also prayed we too, be one, in John 17:21, all of us one!

We can be one with God through grace but Jesus is one with the Father by nature.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Christ himself said, God is greater than I in John 14:28 so actually I believe you are on point which really takes nothing away from his oneness. He also prayed we too, be one, in John 17:21, all of us one!

Are we one in the same sense that the persons of the Trinity are One? Are you and me the same being? If my wife tells me she loves me, is she saying that to you too? It seems to me like we're separate human beings, and that's just the start of the problems. You and me can disagree with each other and pursue different ends - we aren't even one in purpose, will or mind, much less our substance.

 

[NeedyFollower]

Are they 3 different forms of one God? With one mind? Sorry I'm thinking is there a hierarchy? (If spelled right)

There is an orthodox view of the trinity which the church has defended . Ironically , throughout history it has not necessarily kept various groups of "church" from murdering others for heresy for not holding orthodox belief . And there have been various ex-communications and councils by men much smarter than me ( who still could not agree . ) And even those who agree ( Catholics and Protestants ) have warred with each other and spilled much blood to the disgrace of the church and contrary to the words of Christ "to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves . " My point ? Love others . Be like the eunuch who Philip baptized . Philip asked him if he believed with his whole heart that Jesus is the Son of God and Philip baptized him . he did not ask him theological questions ( many which only gender strife and debate . ) Love God and His unspeakable gift , Jesus Christ . If people ask you ..tell them the truth . You don't know or are not sure . Quite frankly many can explain the trinity using various metaphors but that is not going to be " on the test " on judgment day .

 

[Clintjohnson]

John 14:24 These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

I like that!

 

[Clintjohnson]

John 5 21-23 says: 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Sounds like there honor should be given equally. But that each has a role.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Don't think that one member of the Trinity is the Boss to whom the others report. That may work in human organizations, but it isn't how God works.

Didn’t Jesus say he only does what the father tells him to do?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

God is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. "Infinitely" means "cannot be greater". The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore the Father is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. The Son is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. The Holy Spirit is infinitely powerful, infinitely knowledgeable. If any one of them was less powerful or less knowledgeable than the Father, tat one would not be God, and therefore could not be part of the Trinity.

Did Jesus mean what he said when he said the father is greater than I?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

We can be one with God through grace but Jesus is one with the Father by nature.

Can you provide scripture that says what you just said about there being a distinction between jests being one with the father and what he meant by us being one? Because if there is scripture than the debate is over on my end

 

[Archivist]

Didn’t Jesus say he only does what the father tells him to do?

That doesn’t make God the Father the boss of Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

That doesn’t make God the Father the boss of Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

He said he only does what the father tells him to do and he said the father is greater than he is.... Doesn’t that mean the father is greater? I mean that’s exactly what he said. If there is scripture that explains that he didn’t mean what he says I’d like to know so I can understand correctly.

 

[Not David]

Can you provide scripture that says what you just said about there being a distinction between jests being one with the father and what he meant by us being one? Because if there is scripture than the debate is over on my end

Well, the New Testament asserts divinity to Jesus, while some books, like the book of Peter, asserts that we can be partakers of the divine nature.

 

[Not David]

He said he only does what the father tells him to do and he said the father is greater than he is.... Doesn’t that mean the father is greater? I mean that’s exactly what he said. If there is scripture that explains that he didn’t mean what he says I’d like to know so I can understand correctly.

Where does the Bible say Jesus did his own will contrary to the Father? What does being greater mean?

 

[Archivist]

He said he only does what the father tells him to do and he said the father is greater than he is.... Doesn’t that mean the father is greater? I mean that’s exactly what he said. If there is scripture that explains that he didn’t mean what he says I’d like to know so I can understand correctly.

I work with a man who is far better known than I am, and if he needs help I drop what I’m doing to give him a hand. But I don’t report to him or work for him. I just recognize him as being the greater of the two of us.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

I work with a man who is far better known than I am, and if he needs help I drop what I’m doing to give him a hand. But I don’t report to him or work for him. I just recognize him as being the greater of the two of us.

If he’s greater than you then he’s above you in whatever respective way you applied the greater label to him. Jesus didn’t explain what he meant. He just says the father is greater. I honestly don’t understand myself but when people claim to know more than what scripture says it’s a little odd to me. If Jesus said no one is greater between the father and I the we wouldn’t be debating but he didn’t say that. He said the father is greater than he is. How do we argue with what he said himself about who’s greater between him and the father?

 

[Archivist]

If he’s greater than you then he’s above you in whatever respective way you applied the greater label to him. Jesus didn’t explain what he meant. He just says the father is greater. I honestly don’t understand myself but when people claim to know more than what scripture says it’s a little odd to me. If Jesus said no one is greater between the father and I the we wouldn’t be debating but he didn’t say that. He said the father is greater than he is. How do we argue with what he said himself about who’s greater between him and the father?

No, he is not above me in any way. Officially we are equals.

 

[Not David]

If he’s greater than you then he’s above you in whatever respective way you applied the greater label to him. Jesus didn’t explain what he meant. He just says the father is greater. I honestly don’t understand myself but when people claim to know more than what scripture says it’s a little odd to me. If Jesus said no one is greater between the father and I the we wouldn’t be debating but he didn’t say that. He said the father is greater than he is. How do we argue with what he said himself about who’s greater between him and the father?

Through the Church whom Jesus gave authority and who wrote the Bible.