trinity

[rainycity]

the doctrine of the trinity as I see it (correct me if I'm wrong):

the father, son and holy spirit are three distinct personalities, as distinct as any three people are from each other.

They have always existed and have always been distinct.

They have all have the same essence. What's the nature of that essence? Is it the same as the essence of any three people who are distinct personalities but all have minds and self-awareness?

Despite being three distinct personalities, they are one, because of the essence they share. If jesus is the only begotten son of the father, does this mean that the father begat him at some point? did he need someone else to beget him, like the holy spirit?

In the bible it says that the son is seated at the right hand of the father, does this mean these beings are subject to space, direction and finity?

 

[Supreme]

Is this about the trinity school or the theological concept?

Because if it's the school, yes, I didn't get in. Big deal. I'm at St Olave's anyway, which is undoubtedly the best school in London.

If it's the theology, haven't we had a billion threads on this already?

I'd like a change, something original to talk about. Like the book of Ecclesiastes.

 

[salida]

No, God is infinite and isn't subject to space, time, etc. They are three distinct beings and the same in essense-all holy, God, perfect and the same power.

 

[Hentenza]

the doctrine of the trinity as I see it (correct me if I'm wrong):

the father, son and holy spirit are three distinct personalities, as distinct as any three people are from each other.

Yes.

They have always existed and have always been distinct.

Yes.

They have all have the same essence. What's the nature of that essence? Is it the same as the essence of any three people who are distinct personalities but all have minds and self-awareness?

The essence is divine not human.

Despite being three distinct personalities, they are one, because of the essence they share. If jesus is the only begotten son of the father, does this mean that the father begat him at some point? did he need someone else to beget him, like the holy spirit?

No, Jesus always existed just as has the Father and the Holy Spirit. Divine nature can only beget divine and since God's nature is infinite then so is Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

In the bible it says that the son is seated at the right hand of the father, does this mean these beings are subject to space, direction and finity?

That is an anthopomorphism. God the Father is spirit therefore siting is symbolic just like the bible says that God has 'hands".

BTW- This is not one of the easier doctrines to understand.

 

[From Glory to Glory]

Hi,

I don't know if this helps or not, and I know this doesn't answer all of your questions, but I've always told my children that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are like an egg. There is the shell, the yolk, and the white of the egg...3 distinct parts with different characteristics, yet only one egg. Each part fulfills a role and is important. We, also, are truine beings and are made up of spirit, soul, and body. It is the same with God, as we are made in His image.

That always helps me understand, anyway!

Blessings,

Pam

 

[drich0150]

They have all have the same essence. What's the nature of that essence? Is it the same as the essence of any three people who are distinct personalities but all have minds and self-awareness?

It is alittle easier to look at the word God (the essence) as a title rather than a name. There are three distinct aspects to the one God. The first takes on the role of a Father, the second a Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three are distinct but all are still God.

 

[Bible2]

the father, son and holy spirit are three distinct personalities, as distinct as any three people are from each other.

That's right: they exist as three separate Persons at the same time: "Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased" (Luke 3:21-22).

So they are not simply different "modes" that God takes on only one at a time.

They have always existed and have always been distinct.

That's right, except that the Son pre-existed as the Word: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1:1,14).

They have all have the same essence. What's the nature of that essence?

The essence of God is Spirit: "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).

Despite being three distinct personalities, they are one, because of the essence they share.

That's right; they are one in Spirit: "But ye [Christians] are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Romans 8:9).

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. Compare the following two passages: "When they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost" (Mark 13:11). "When they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you" (Matthew 10:19-20).

At the same time, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus Christ: "And I [Jesus] will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you" (John 14:16-18).

If jesus is the only begotten son of the father, does this mean that the father begat him at some point?

Yes, Jesus is the only-begotten (only-born) Son of God (John 3:16) because he is the only human born without any human father: "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:34-35).

did he need someone else to beget him, like the holy spirit?

As shown in the above passage, Jesus was conceived in the virgin Mary through the operation of the Holy Spirit. This is also referred to elsewhere. For example: "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 1:18).

In the bible it says that the son is seated at the right hand of the father, does this mean these beings are subject to space, direction and finity?

No, God's existence is in no way limited: he is omnipresent by his Spirit: "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me" (Psalms 139:7-10).

But Jesus (the Word, the Son) is also now at the same time in a physical fully-human body: "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

It is in this fully-human physical body that Jesus ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the Father as our high priest: "We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Hebrews 8:1). "This man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" (Hebrews 10:12).

Jesus will remain in a fully-human body forever so he can serve as the high priest of saved humans forever: "this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:24-25).

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted" (Hebrews 2:16-18).

There is a false doctrine called "antichrist" doctrine, one of the central teachings of which is the ancient Gnostic lie that Christ is not in a fully-human body, not in the flesh: "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" (1 John 4:3).

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" (2 John 1:7-10).

So Christians cannot even welcome into their homes anyone claiming to be a Christian who teaches the lie that Jesus Christ is not in the flesh, not in a fully-human body. This shows how crucial the doctrine of Christ-in-the-flesh is to the true Christian faith.

Because it is so crucial, Satan will no doubt try to completely obliterate the true Christ-in-the-flesh doctrine during the coming world-reign (Revelation 13:7) of the man commonly called the "Antichrist", who "shall come" (1 John 2:18).

 

[ebia]

the doctrine of the trinity as I see it (correct me if I'm wrong):

the father, son and holy spirit are three distinct personalities, as distinct as any three people are from each other.

They have always existed and have always been distinct.

They have all have the same essence. What's the nature of that essence? Is it the same as the essence of any three people who are distinct personalities but all have minds and self-awareness?

Despite being three distinct personalities, they are one, because of the essence they share.

That's more or less okay.

If jesus is the only begotten son of the father, does this mean that the father begat him at some point?

"In the beginning". Since time is part of creation it's a bit difficult to say much without going beyond the limitations of human languages which don't work very well with timelessness.

did he need someone else to beget him, like the holy spirit?

Apparently not.

In the bible it says that the son is seated at the right hand of the father, does this mean these beings are subject to space, direction and finity?

It's a statement about Lordship in figurative language, not a statement about actual spacial relationship.

 

[Ih8s8n]

If jesus is the only begotten son of the father, does this mean that the father begat him at some point? did he need someone else to beget him, like the holy spirit?

rainycity: Although there are many within professing Christendom who believe that Jesus was "begotten" at His birth/incarnation, this is not what the scriptures actually teach.

"Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee." (Acts 13:26-33)

According to scripture, it was when Jesus was raised up again, or raised from the dead, that he was begotten. The Apostle Paul plainly states that it was upon "this day" that Jesus was begotten and he quotes the second Psalm which prophesied this begetting.

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us." (Psalm 2:1-3)

The first part of this prophetic Psalm foretold of how Herod, Pilate, the Gentiles and the Jews would take counsel together against the Lord and His anointed/Christ and crucify Jesus.

"And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined beforehand to be done." (Acts 4:23-28)

Psalm 2 continues:

"He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." (Psalm 2:4-7)

Having watched those who vainly tried to defeat God's purpose of Christ the King ruling one day out of Zion, God laughs. We then see Jesus actually speaking in the first Person, when He says:

"The Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." (Psalm 2:7)

Do you remember when Jesus said:

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." (John 10:17-18)

?

Well, one of the places where God promised Jesus that He would "take it again" was in Psalm 2, verse 7. THIS DAY, according to scripture, was the very day in which Jesus Christ was "begotten".

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth." (Revelation 1:5)

I hope that this helps to answer that portion of your question. Take care.