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i[/u]f god is strictly numerical one, how can he be in all and through all? that would be irrational.
of course god is omnipotent. so the question is .. is omnipotence a rational attribute of god?.
and some people insists that the nature of god must be rational, pfft
all things that are god are one spirit with him basically
I believe hes basically one mind/consciousness
think of it being like a bunch of PC's connected through a network
even though the pc's are physically separate they can function as one computer when connected together
So the Name of this family would be?
Part 6.
It is plain to for everyone to see, the Apostles never taught the doctrine of the Trinity. They didnt say that God is three [persons], they didnt say that Jesus is God the Son, they didnt say God the Holy Spirit, they dont call God a They, etc. The doctrine of the Trinity took many, many years to develop after the deaths of the twelve Apostles, and Apostle Paul. In the Book of Acts, Jesus is presented as Gods Son, not as the Father or as God the Son.
Therefore, the doctrine of the Trinity is a heresy as much as the doctrine of Modalism/Oneness. So, the real Orthodox, that the Apostles taught in the NT, was that there is one God who is one (the Father alone), that he had a Son (Jesus), that he had many angels, and that he had a Holy Spirit.
Might I suggest you continue reading Genesis Ch 1 and read v 27 as well. There, God (singular) clearly takes credit for the work of creation. Elohiym is a plural noun but not one that necessarily means multiple subjects. A Hebrew lexicon will help with understanding the ins and outs of it.
The entirety of scripture clearly demonstrates to us that God is one (singular). Jesus is His son, who was begotten when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and the Holy Spirit is the presence, will, manifestation of God's power and authority.
Your idea of God as someone who talks to Himself is an interesting one indeed.
The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit are not the same person, but three persons in one being.
253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85
254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm#II
i don't get your point relative to my comment.
I think he's generally trying to tell you that the classical orthodox position on the Trinity is often misunderstood by its detractors. But I'll let him continue...
...carry on!
i grew up protestant and attended other christian churches with my relatives and friends quite often, but i never found anyone who could come close to making it understandable that is above any kind of a nonsensical level including during my time as an employee with some of the world's largest and well known christian ministries, one for over 15 years.
these aren't and weren't detractors. we're talking believers. the problem is they know what they've been taught, but bet you they have not a clue why they go along with it beyond it's the prevailing thinking they have been exposed to. i know i didn't.
there is not a doubt in my mind that because of this one confusing idea that is perpetuated about God, many people shun Godliness.
why do people have to mess things up by making what is so simple so complicated?
The Trinity makes sense to me. I can't understand why others don't get it, but such is life. Despite the alleged "confusion" you think it generates and spreads...the number of the doctrine's adherents continues to grow, its lives on without great objection and is held to by many of the brightest minds. Your claim that people just go along with it really doesn't stick.
great! please explain it so it makes sense to the rest of us.
Anti-Trinitarians endlessly squabble and bicker about words, used by Trinitarians, trying to express the nature of God, as revealed in scripture, e.g. Trinity,triune,person,""being,""entity,""substance,""essence," nature, who," etc., etc., yada, yada, yada.
All words are inherently finite and imperfect, therefore these words, "Trinity, triune, person," "being," "entity," "substance," "essence, nature, who," and/or any other words one chooses to mention, are totally inadequate to describe God, the infinite, perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent. But the fact that human words are finite, limited and imperfect does not prove or disprove anything about the doctrine of the Trinity.
Here yet again scriptural truths I have posted before, without any so-called unscriptural words or man made doctrines.
1. There is one God! The Father is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Father is not the Son or the Spirit. Numerous vss. e.g., John 6:27, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:3, Eph 6:23, Philippians 2:11, 1 Thess 1:1, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 1:17, et. al.
2. There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Spirit.[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.3. There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17.
[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[3] Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.
[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he [God] hath purchased with his own blood.
[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.
great! please explain it so it makes sense to the rest of us.
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