Tribulation physics

[dad]

And his girlfriend wouldn't be putting out would she?

If not, she wouldn't last long I suspect.

 

[dad]

C-C has studied the shroud for three years, dad -- I'll attest first hand that he knows his stuff.

Looks to me like he knows more about Spiritual things than you; you might want to stop and learn from him.

OK...I wait with baited breath for him to say something intelligent or spiritual.

 

[dad]

That doesn't mean the Book of Daniel was written by him.

Ah, so someone else named Daniel snuck in a wrote it pretending he was Daniel...and Jesus quoted the wrong Daniel?

You want a logical assumption? No problem.

Go for it.

God doesn't exist, because there is no evidence for his existence. There you go.

I have seen the evidence though. Your logic is wishful thinking.

What tells you that it was God who made the predictions? How do you know the bible wasn't written by humans that were inspired by humans?

Impossible. If you were familiar with them you would not ask that.

By the way, you make predictions that have nothing to do with God, too. You make the prediction that when you walk to your destination, you will arrive at your destination. Your argument is invalid.

No. Many men proposed to walk to a certain place and never made it.

You started your comment with no, which indicates disagreement. You then told me that scientists don't take the bible as serious as you do and that they assume that the rules of the present state will apply to the future, which is an agreement with my comment.

The Tribulation is not something science calculates, anticipates, or even states.

It still has nothing to do with my comment, which was about how you changed your opinion.


I follow you very well, that's why I arrived at the conclusion that you are shifting the goalposts.

The past....4400 plus years ago....the future....soon as the Tribulation or Rapture occur....any more questions?

Evidence that God exists.

That is a done deal...back on topic.

I think I have plenty of evidence to support the claim that the earth is spherical, thanks.

And..??? Do you have evidence baseballs are sort of round too? Keep us posted.

You are literally telling me that I should admit defeat because you are using fallacies? Nice!

No. But that would be a good start for you.

Now, can you please tell me whether predictions are invalid by their very nature, or whether predictions about the far future are just invalid because they contradict the bible? I can't argue against your point if the point constantly changes.

Are you talking science predictions?

 

[dad]

Tribulation physics = "And he [Hiram] made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...." — First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26

This means that Pi must equal 3 Wow! Imagine if science used the value of Pi as being equal 3

Right! Now if you have any spiritual objects bring them in for a test. Until then, remember that the area in the verse was holy. Spiritual. Your measures are not on par. This is news?

 

[Jamin4422]

What tells you that it was God who made the predictions? How do you know the bible wasn't written by humans that were inspired by humans?

We can use science to test the Bible to see how accurate and true the Bible is.

 

[mzungu]

We can use science to test the Bible to see how accurate and true the Bible is.

We have and the Bible has indeed been found to be in err on many occasions; One of which is the value of Pi. In the Bible it is calculated to be 3. This alone makes the Bible loose credibility altogether! Not to mention that it claims a geocentric system and a flat earth; Both have been shown to be totally wrong.

 

[Jamin4422]

One of which is the value of Pi.

You have to take the thickness of the vessel into consideration. Go ahead and build one and you will find the plans that Moses gives you spot on. Follow your math and you will not build anything because it would have zero thickness and it would not exist. Even though in real life a pencil line has thickness. In math you pretend that a line has no thickness. I do not know what they do on the computer, but back when we used drafting boards we had to mark the plans NTS, not to scale. Esp if you make an ammona copy with was the real original blue prints. There could be quite a bit of distortion. If they went to scale it the line maybe off two or three feet.

 

[Tiberius]

You have to take the thickness of the vessel into consideration. Go ahead and build one and you will find the plans that Moses gives you spot on. Follow your math and you will not build anything because it would have zero thickness and it would not exist. Even though in real life a pencil line has thickness. In math you pretend that a line has no thickness. I do not know what they do on the computer, but back when we used drafting boards we had to mark the plans NTS, not to scale. Esp if you make an ammona copy with was the real original blue prints. There could be quite a bit of distortion. If they went to scale it the line maybe off two or three feet.

Except that if we do that, then we get that the thickness of the wall is just under half a cubit, or about 25 centimeters (ten inches). Call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe that the people back then had a material that allowed them to build a vessel 15 meters in diameter that was only a quarter meter thick.

The most logical explanation is that it is a case of people just rounding to the nearest whole number.

 

[mzungu]

You have to take the thickness of the vessel into consideration. Go ahead and build one and you will find the plans that Moses gives you spot on. Follow your math and you will not build anything because it would have zero thickness and it would not exist. Even though in real life a pencil line has thickness. In math you pretend that a line has no thickness. I do not know what they do on the computer, but back when we used drafting boards we had to mark the plans NTS, not to scale. Esp if you make an ammona copy with was the real original blue prints. There could be quite a bit of distortion. If they went to scale it the line maybe off two or three feet.

Sorry but it does not work that way. You obviously have no experience in manufacturing do you! I challenge you to give me one construction that is round or spherical or even plain circular that is based on Pi having a value of 3. It is an impossibility whichever way you look at it!

 

[Jamin4422]

no experience in manufacturing

I have over 25 years experience in the construction business.

Where did you get that "You don't know what your talking about" rubber stamp. I think I am going to start to use one of them. I will just start to stamp all the posts: "you do not know what your talking about", end of story. That will make life a lot easier.

Anyways, that is the answer to the question.
If you do not like the answer to bad so sad,
that is they only answer we have for that queston.

 

[Elendur]

I have over 25 years experience in the construction business.

Where did you get that "You don't know what your talking about" rubber stamp. I think I am going to start to use one of them. I will just start to stamp all the posts: "you do not know what your talking about", end of story. That will make life a lot easier.

Anyways, that is the answer to the question.
If you do not like the answer to bad so sad,
that is they only answer we have for that queston.

Then you should be aware of the importance of pi.

 

[The Engineer]

Ah, so someone else named Daniel snuck in a wrote it pretending he was Daniel...

So someone wrote a book and attributed it to Daniel. Sure never happened before.

and Jesus quoted the wrong Daniel?

Exactly.

I have seen the evidence though. Your logic is wishful thinking.

Again, what evidence?

Impossible. If you were familiar with them you would not ask that.

Why is it impossible?

No. Many men proposed to walk to a certain place and never made it.

Because they lacked certain information, not because making predictions is impossible in itself.

Is that what you're claiming? That you can't ever make any predictions, only that God can make them?

The Tribulation is not something science calculates, anticipates, or even states.

Because it's unscientific.

The past....4400 plus years ago....the future....soon as the Tribulation or Rapture occur....any more questions?

Yeah, I have some questions. Why do you still shift the goalposts? And why do you attribute so much credibility to the bible?

That is a done deal...back on topic.

It's not. You posted Daniel, I told you why it doesn't prove God. Try harder.

And..??? Do you have evidence baseballs are sort of round too? Keep us posted.

Try Google image search if you want evidence for baseballs being round.

No.

You did.

But that would be a good start for you.

It would be a good start for me to admit defeat because you can't write a single post without resorting to half a dozen fallacies?

Are you talking science predictions?

I am talking about predictions. Not strictly scientific predictions but predictions in general. Are they impossible by their very nature, or are they possible until God changes the rules of nature?

 

[mzungu]

Then you should be aware of the importance of pi.

LOL! You beat me to it

 

[Elendur]

LOL! You beat me to it

I felt that it needed to be said (written) as soon as possible

 

[Jamin4422]

Then you should be aware of the importance of pi.

I know that even a line has thickness, even more a real vessel. You do not seem to know that.

 

[Elendur]

I know that even a line has thickness, even more a real vessel. You do not seem to know that.

Interesting how aggressive your response was in comparison.
However you're wrong in your observation, I know lines in reality have thickness but mathematically they're without width.

As for the width of the wall, see Tiberius response:

Except that if we do that, then we get that the thickness of the wall is just under half a cubit, or about 25 centimeters (ten inches). Call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe that the people back then had a material that allowed them to build a vessel 15 meters in diameter that was only a quarter meter thick.

Historically 3 was the value for pi in most regular calculations. The rounded value was enough to calculate most projects since the algorithms used were too complex to be of any gain compared to the effort.
The egyptians were early with exact (close) use of pi due to an approximation of fractions and their extensive tables of precalculated fractions.

It's very likely that they used 3.

 

[Tiberius]

Actually, I made a mistake in my measurements.

After plugging the numbers into an Excel spreadsheet, I cam up with the following figures...

A cubit is 20.6 inches or 52.3 centimeters, going by the figures on the wiki page. Now, assuming a circle that is thirty cubits in circumference, we find that the diameter is 9.55 cubits.

So, if we assume that the larger value of ten cubits is the diameter from the outside of the container to the other side (across the rim), and the diameter across just the open space is 9.55 cubits, then that leaves a value of 0.45 cubits for the thickness of the vessel itself.

However, I failed to take into account that this rim is on both sides of the vessel, so we must divide that number in half, giving 0.225 cubits as the average thickness of the vessel.

That works out to be about 4.6 inches, or 11.8 centimeters.

Now, considering that we are dealing with a circular tank that is 30 cubits across (which is five and a quarter meters or more than seventeen feet), I find it impossible to believe that the people back then had any kind of material which could withstand that kind of pressure (2000 baths as stated in 1 Kings 7:23-26, or 3000 baths as stated in 2 Chronicles 4:5)

However, it does correspond with the Biblical claim that the width of the vessel was about a hands breadth.

If someone could tell me what the equivalent volume of a bath is, I could try to figure out how high the walls would need to be (assume that the vessel was a cylinder).

 

[Elendur]

I think I found something:
Volume Measurements - Dimensions Info
"1 quart (US) is equal to 946 milliliters" "In biblical times, a bath can be equal to 0.04166667 quarts while a hin is equal to 0.25. A log is 3 quarts. The old Roman quart is equal to 6.958477 quarts today. The Old French minot is equal to 0.02783391 quarts while the Old Russian vodka bottle is equivalent to 1.538785 quarts."

Edit: A fast calculation gives that a bath would be equal to 39,41666982 ml

 

[Tiberius]

I think I found something:
Volume Measurements - Dimensions Info
"1 quart (US) is equal to 946 milliliters" "In biblical times, a bath can be equal to 0.04166667 quarts while a hin is equal to 0.25. A log is 3 quarts. The old Roman quart is equal to 6.958477 quarts today. The Old French minot is equal to 0.02783391 quarts while the Old Russian vodka bottle is equivalent to 1.538785 quarts."

Edit: A fast calculation gives that a bath would be equal to 39,41666982 mm

Are you sure that's right? A bath is only 4% of a quart?

Anyway, I found an online converter that shows that 2000 baths is about 44,000 liters.