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TLK Valentine

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Stonemasons were building Roman fashioned villas, remember that.

In Rome, sure -- but when you're growing up in Nazareth, a one horse town in the boonies of Galilee, there's not a lot of demand... the best Jesus, like any other carpenter, could've hoped for would've been day labor rebuilding Sepphoris... or did you think that carpenters back in the day were respected craftsmen with their own little shops?


No, it's not a matter of personal preference, it is a matter of their religious and social inheritance (Emperor=God). They have had enough of it. As soon as they move out of Japan, they become reborn, as it were.

Funny, the same phenomenon happened in America in the '50s and 60s... but God had little to do with it.

White flight - Wikipedia
 
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TLK Valentine

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TLK Valentine

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First heard of transhumanism from a potential date lol.. Very interested in advanced genetic manipulation/mutation.. especially in the areas of medicine.. not so in favor of the merging of metal and flesh though.. nightmares of the borg

Funny thing -- IIRC, the Borg ships (giant floating cubes) were inspired by the Book of Revelations...
 
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CrystalDragon

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Funny thing -- IIRC, the Borg ships (giant floating cubes) were inspired by the Book of Revelations...

I actually didn't realize that until I was looking over what's in Revelation again... needless to say it was a bit of a shock.
Giant cube? Check.
Everyone being of a like mind therefore not having the will they did before? Check
Revelation is basically the Borg. o_O
 
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Ygrene Imref

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The settings are different, the plot remains the same.

Stop me if you heard this one:

Once upon a time there was a boy with a great destiny, but he didn't know it. His parents were kind of special, but he never knew them. He was taken away from his real family as an infant for his own protection. Until one day, a crazy old wizard showed up at his door and offered to take him away to a special place where he would eventually learn to become the hero he was destined to be. Wouldn't you know it? That's exactly what happened! The boy grew up to be a hero, and, even though the crazy old wizard who taught him was long gone, the boy (now a man) still managed to save the day from the big bad evil he was quite literally born to vanquish.

Now -- who's the boy?

images


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Original stories, you say? I think not.




I remember back when we had free will, before we were characters in His Narrative.

Art imitates life; I does not come from a vacuum - I know you know this. Indeed, the iterations of life you previously spoke about imitate spiritual life. Moreover, the are prophetic allusions using real agents of God for the purposes of instructing His people.

Most atheists and agnostics won't get this - simply because it isn't worth their spiritual/carnal investment to figure it out. The irony and connection between what you are asking is that it seems clear that the HEBREWS never "got this" either - as many times as He has given people warnings. Every single one of us is spiritually retarded, which is why we needed a "special needs teacher" with the credentials in dealing with us (no, I am not equating retardation go special needs persons; I mean the word in its context above - the denotation.)

As far as the repeated stories, TLK you are on to something in a way you may not get - and it is quite profound.

Assume the canonical bible is real.

Let's assume the skeleton/superficiality of your connections in similar stories.

The reason these similar prophetic incidences happen is because they are prophetic. That should be clear with hindsight; in this case it is LIFE imitating spirituality - not so different from the theory that this life is a holographic reflection of happenings on a real plane of existence.

So, let's assume also that God did this deliberately to specific generations in order to give His people a heads up, and a WAKE UP call. Only a few got it.

The incidents in the canon are lessons that unfortunately have to be taught over and over because the Hebrews were stubborn people. They even literally cheated on God with other gods - sometimes the same gods that enslaved them (Stockholm Syndrome in antiquity.)

He made them walk around for 40 years, for example, to purge the Hebrews that were too old to change, that had this "spiritual Stockholm Syndrome," and continued to long for Egypt and it's practices despite being slaves. Do you think mentalities like that would be productive in making people a FREE PEOPLE under GOD of gods? Indeed, one of the first things they did was make a golden calf to worship a "cultic/ god. The 40 years also also allowed for new people born under the care of God - to replenish His people, and to build on a relationship with Him.

Man is the foolish one, that is why you continuously see the "same stuff, different day" ." Imagine how God feels when he purposefully allows incidents happen for instruction, but all His people see is opportunitiesto reject him. Then, they have the audacity to blame Him when things fail for them - when they ignored all of his warnings and instruction! If you think about it, we act like horrible children.

Iterative incidents are expressions of Mercy through God. Another example is the sacrifice of Isaac''s only child - his child of old age. IN hindsight, it is clear God was never going to make Isaac sacrifice his son: the point of the entire incident is to illustrate to US that Christ's sacrifice wont be/isn't just a "lame" activity: Isaac's life IMITATES the spiritual pain God goes through as a loving Father in allowing His son - delivering Him up - to be killed in order to save all of us.

There are many iterations in the history that seem superfluous. And, they are - to a righteous person (or someone with incredible foresight/hindsight) But, they serve an important purpose in saving us spiritually retarded lot, to give each generation a better chance to attain real life.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I actually didn't realize that until I was looking over what's in Revelation again... needless to say it was a bit of a shock.
Giant cube? Check.
Everyone being of a like mind therefore not having the will they did before? Check
Revelation is basically the Borg. o_O

Which means assimilation is the ultimate goal of Christianity... not so appealing when put into practice, is it?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Art imitates life; I does not come from a vacuum - I know you know this. Indeed, the iterations of life you previously spoke about imitate spiritual life. Moreover, the are prophetic allusions using real agents of God for the purposes of instructing His people.

Sounds like those prophetic agents of God got their lives manipulated (right down to their parents' choosing their names!) in minute ways... so much for free will.

Most atheists and agnostics won't get this - simply because it isn't worth their spiritual/carnal investment to figure it out. The irony and connection between what you are asking is that it seems clear that the HEBREWS never "got this" either - as many times as He has given people warnings. Every single one of us is spiritually retarded, which is why we needed a "special needs teacher" with the credentials in dealing with us (no, I am not equating retardation go special needs persons; I mean the word in its context above - the denotation.)

Meaning God dropped the ball.

As far as the repeated stories, TLK you are on to something in a way you may not get - and it is quite profound.

Assume the canonical bible is real.

Circular reasoning, but for the moment, ok...

Let's assume the skeleton/superficiality of your connections in similar stories.

We can assume a lot more than that -- I was merely scratching the surface. But continue...

The reason these similar prophetic incidences happen is because they are prophetic. That should be clear with hindsight; in this case it is LIFE imitating spirituality - not so different from the theory that this life is a holographic reflection of happenings on a real plane of existence.

Actually, no -- it's LIFE imitating... wait for it.... LIFE.

If you're right, which of those events was the spiritual, and which was LIFE?

So, let's assume also that God did this deliberately to specific generations in order to give His people a heads up, and a WAKE UP call. Only a few got it.

Which would mean that those "specific generations" were not His people; merely tools to be used.

The incidents in the canon are lessons that unfortunately have to be taught over and over because the Hebrews were stubborn people. They even literally cheated on God with other gods - sometimes the same gods that enslaved them (Stockholm Syndrome in antiquity.)

The people that He used as an object lesson for later generations were less than grateful? Say it ain't so, Shoeless Joe!

He made them walk around for 40 years, for example, to purge the Hebrews that were too old to change, that had this "spiritual Stockholm Syndrome," and continued to long for Egypt and it's practices despite being slaves.

His people had to die. Or at the very least, the old and useless.

History has a sense of irony, doesn't it?

Do you think mentalities like that would be productive in making people a FREE PEOPLE under GOD of gods? Indeed, one of the first things they did was make a golden calf to worship a "cultic/ god. The 40 years also also allowed for new people born under the care of God - to replenish His people, and to build on a relationship with Him.

"Purge" the stockholm syndrome bunch in order to put the survivors under a new Stockholm syndrome.... you're not making a very good case for your god, here...

Man is the foolish one, that is why you continuously see the "same stuff, different day" ." Imagine how God feels when he purposefully allows incidents happen for instruction, but all His people see is opportunitiesto reject him. Then, they have the audacity to blame Him when things fail for them - when they ignored all of his warnings and instruction! If you think about it, we act like horrible children.

When daddy kills off your siblings, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Iterative incidents are expressions of Mercy through God. Another example is the sacrifice of Isaac''s only child - his child of old age. IN hindsight, it is clear God was never going to make Isaac sacrifice his son: the point of the entire incident is to illustrate to US that Christ's sacrifice wont be/isn't just a "lame" activity: Isaac's life IMITATES the spiritual pain God goes through as a loving Father in allowing His son - delivering Him up - to be killed in order to save all of us.

Or it could be an earlier case of establishing Stockholm Syndrome.

There are many iterations in the history that seem superfluous. And, they are - to a righteous person (or someone with incredible foresight/hindsight) But, they serve an important purpose in saving us spiritually retarded lot, to give each generation a better chance to attain real life.

Assuming, of course, the the Bible is canonical history, it would then mean that God is so lacking in imagination as to try the same tricks over and over again (right down to the same names!) before getting it right.

There's an old saying about the definition of... something... being to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.
 
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Khalliqa

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You might not want to make a habit of editing your posts after they've been responded to -- it makes you look disingenuous, and I'm sure that is not your intention

I do this all the time :-/. I'm often typing on my phone on the go nowhere near a desktop and editing doesn't get thought about on the first sent draft. Not saying it's the best practice but it happens. sometimes you want to contribute and feel your first draft is good enough as you're typing on the go
 
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Ygrene Imref

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Sounds like those prophetic agents of God got their lives manipulated (right down to their parents' choosing their names!) in minute ways... so much for free will.



Meaning God dropped the ball.

TLK,

There is no such thing as free will. God never said we had "free will" to do absolutely anything we want to do. Never.

That is an artifact of church theology.

God only gives imperfect beings the "free will" of choice in matters of spiritual nature - which generally points to "abstractions" for us physical beings - love, sin, hate, deception, dishonor, tretchery, lust, envy, intent...

The 10 commandments are founded on these things, as well as the rest of the Law - that is the extent of created, imperfect being free choice.

The paradox is that perfect beings are the only entities that have 100% free will, but they are perfect and holy categorically because they abdicate all 100% of their free will to God.

An entites like Azazel, or the entity known as Satan, is bounded: they do not have free will. Likewise with humans.

So, part of the spiritual construction promoting growth is to throw away the idea of free will, which never existed with imperfect beings.

God didn't drop the ball; He literally has a solution for every single perturbation possible - creation is a perfectly natural stochastic model. Just because He set up boundaries that allowed for the fall, Nero, Hitler, and gods of Egypt/Babylon/Sumeria doesnt mean He hasn't already compensated for those things with perturbations that drive the system to equilibrium, (Christ,) or extrema (heaven forever; eternal shame). There is a "good" coupling parameter for every "evil" allowed - like a prophet or professor of Christ for every x-number of antichrists. We allowed for that duality when our matriarch and patriarch opened that door "eating" the "fruit" from the "tree" of knowledge of good and evil. (It wasn't just the tree of knowledge, as if Adam and Eve were stupid, it was the tree with the information to be able to judge good and evil.)

He could easily operate unnaturally, and FORCE everything to be perfect; He doesn't want to.

Instead, Creation operates like a well-defined boundary value problem with predetermined boundary conditions, initial conditions, coupling parameters, etc. Right now, despite distraction that suggest the contrary, the "creation" is driving toward extrema. We have the choice only to where we want to align ourselves.

That is why Christ did what He did; otherwise, we WOULD be complete slaves to carnality, more subject to its yoke as "creation" evolves over time.
 
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just a believing guy

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In Rome, sure -- but when you're growing up in Nazareth, a one horse town in the boonies of Galilee, there's not a lot of demand... the best Jesus, like any other carpenter, could've hoped for would've been day labor rebuilding Sepphoris... or did you think that carpenters back in the day were respected craftsmen with their own little shops?




Funny, the same phenomenon happened in America in the '50s and 60s... but God had little to do with it.

White flight - Wikipedia

He would most likely have been a stone mason, fluent in Greek as well.

Well, Jesus might have been a ''wunderkind''...we don't have almost anything left about his days as a child in Nazareth.

He was able to teach grown men the Scriptures, and He would have certainly climb up the ladder to become perhaps the best stonemason in the area.
 
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just a believing guy

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You say the Bible was history, do you not? History is the record of events that actually happened.

History is what winners write happened. It doesn't have to be true. Take Caesar's book on his exploits in Gaul, for example.
 
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TLK Valentine

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TLK,

There is no such thing as free will. God never said we had "free will" to do absolutely anything we want to do. Never.

If there is no free will, then there is no accountability. My actions mean nothing to me because I didn't choose to do them.

An entites like Azazel, or the entity known as Satan, is bounded: they do not have free will. Likewise with humans.

Which means that everything Satan does is actually God pulling the strings.


God didn't drop the ball; He literally has a solution for every single perturbation possible -

And well He should -- as He causes them all.


creation is a perfectly natural stochastic model. Just because He set up boundaries that allowed for the fall, Nero, Hitler, and gods of Egypt/Babylon/Sumeria doesnt mean He hasn't already compensated for those things with perturbations that drive the system to equilibrium, (Christ,) or extrema (heaven forever; eternal shame). There is a "good" coupling parameter for every "evil" allowed - like a prophet or professor of Christ for every x-number of antichrists. We allowed for that duality when our matriarch and patriarch opened that door "eating" the "fruit" from the "tree" of knowledge of good and evil. (It wasn't just the tree of knowledge, as if Adam and Eve were stupid, it was the tree with the information to be able to judge good and evil.)

God sets the fire, then sets the conditions to put it out.

He could easily operate unnaturally, and FORCE everything to be perfect; He doesn't want to.

Instead, Creation operates like a well-defined boundary value problem with predetermined boundary conditions, initial conditions, coupling parameters, etc. Right now, despite distraction that suggest the contrary, the "creation" is driving toward extrema. We have the choice only to where we want to align ourselves.

So you say.... or is it so God says through you?

That is why Christ did what He did; otherwise, we WOULD be complete slaves to carnality, more subject to its yoke as "creation" evolves over time.

The alternative is being slaves to the Narrative... characters in a story whose only purpose is to serve as an example to later generations.
 
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TLK Valentine

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He would most likely have been a stone mason, fluent in Greek as well.

And the Bible says what?

Well, Jesus might have been a ''wunderkind''...we don't have almost anything left about his days as a child in Nazareth.

He might have been an English Sheepdog names "Bosko," but let's go with what the Bible says...

He was able to teach grown men the Scriptures, and He would have certainly climb up the ladder to become perhaps the best stonemason in the area.

Indeed -- that might have been his very purpose on Earth -- successful stonemasonry.
 
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TLK Valentine

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History is what winners write happened. It doesn't have to be true. Take Caesar's book on his exploits in Gaul, for example.

Winners who can either write what actually happened, or the version that makes them look good.
 
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just a believing guy

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And the Bible says what?



He might have been an English Sheepdog names "Bosko," but let's go with what the Bible says...



Indeed -- that might have been his very purpose on Earth -- successful stonemasonry.

Is it sarcasm now, irony?... :)

The Bible is mainly silent about Christ's childhood, teen years...

No, He might not have been a dog called Bosco.

If anything, stonemasons are tough...well prepared for physical endurance.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Is it sarcasm now, irony?... :)

The Bible is mainly silent about Christ's childhood, teen years...

No, He might not have been a dog called Bosco.

If anything, stonemasons are tough...well prepared for physical endurance.

It should be an expected reaction to baseless speculation and wishful thinking.
 
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