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Featured transgression of desolation vs abomination of desolation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    What Paul is really saying is that in one moment of time (the moment after the dead in Christ rise) two different people groups get two different results:
    Those in Christ get raptured and get to "live together with Him."
    Those in darkness get God's wrath, Paul's "sudden destruction" and the start of the Day of the Lord.
    In short Paul is showing us that the rapture will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord and God's wrath. Just for comaprison, the 70th week will start with the next or 7th seal. So Paul's rapture certainly comes before the 70th week or as many people say, the trib.
     
  2. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Antiochus was a TYPE of the future Antichrist Beast.
     
  3. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Finally! Something we agree on! God job!
     
  4. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I personally think the deadly wound could very well be Iraq being destroyed by the US and its king put to death. Iraq is the present day Babylon.
     
  5. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Sorry, Daniel 8 is ancient history! There is very little there to even hint of the future. However, Antiochus was a TYPE of the antichrist because he did something very similar to what will come in the future: an image erected in the most holy place. "TYPE" is the hint of the future.
     
  6. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Many on these threads seem comfortable in ignoring the text! Especially the texts that speak against their pet theories.
     
  7. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    And yet, millions believe - for good reason - that this verse speaks of events in OUR future.
     
  8. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Sorry, the Geneva bible got it wrong here. We have 500 more years of history than they had. Many commentators have things in Revelation off. This covenant to be confirmed is still future to us today. Believe it our miss out on God's planned escape.
     
  9. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Here we go, IGNORING texts and creating theory out of thin air. Why not just believe John - that THE DAY begins at the 6th seal, before the "book" is even opened to reveal the rest of the week? It is JESUS that comes in the middle of the week, for the rapture, which will trigger THE DAY. Go and read in in 1 Thes. 5.

    I agree with you on the wounded head
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am amazed at the complexity folks entangle themselves in trying to force wild theories and gaps into scripture. And then rip the rest of the bible apart seeking out "proof texts", wrenched from their context.

    Just go with letting scripture interpret scripture. And only believe what scripture clearly states. It is that simple.
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is in the text - time of the end. It is not a "hint". It is a declaration.

    The little horn in Daniel 8 and Daniel 7 is the same person.

    Antiochus is in Daniel 11, not Daniel 8. In Daniel 11, Antiochus is not time of the end. Time of the end in Daniel 11 begins in verse 36 with the beast, who in that verse is claiming to be higher than every god. And not regarding the God of his fathers - because he is a Jew, who forsakes the covenant not to have any other gods than the One True God.

    Antiochus was not a type of the Antichrist - as Antiochus was never the King of Israel.

    You could say that Antiochus committed the similar act that the beast (King of the Roman Empire ) will commit in the end times, the setting up a statue image of himself (Antiochus claimed to be the incarnation of Zeus in human form) - the abomination of desolation.

    Antichrist - King of Israel (illegitimate)
    little horn, beast - King of the Roman Empire (the EU in the end times)

    same person in different roles.
     
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The historical true Christian Church ignored the text with pet theories for over 1,800 years.

    Imagine that.

    And dispens do.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

    Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

    Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

    1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

    2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

    Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

    Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

    NKJV

    .
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Not to be overtaken by that day means a person has to know what is going on and expecting the rapture. It does not mean that someone has to present the day the event takes place.

    Paul is not saying to look forward to the Day of the Lord because on that day the rapture will take place.

    The message is be vigilant to the times: live as a Christian should as Jesus said to do in the messages to the church's until he comes; and trust in the Lord to save you from the time of trouble that will overtake the world like a flood.
     
  15. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    katalambano
    kat-al-am-ban'-o
    from kata - kata 2596 and lambanw - lambano 2983; to take eagerly, i.e. seize, possess, etc. (literally or figuratively):--apprehend, attain, come upon, comprehend, find, obtain, perceive, (over-)take.


    This is what 'overtake' means in 1 Thessalonians 5: 4 according to Strong's. IMO 'come upon' seems to fit the verse.

    1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should come upon you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


    The rapture can't precede the DOTL. But if the rapture does, which would then lead the world into utter chaos if that happens before the DOTL, why then are they saying peace and safety before the DOTL? It doesn't fit reality. Planes would be falling out of the sky if the pilots are some of the saved, thus raptured. There would be major car accidents worldwide when drivers are no longer behind the wheel. And if millions vanish into thin air like this, the fear throughout the world would be unreal. Yet the Bible depicts no such scene prior to the DOTL. It indicates they shall be sayng peace and safety instead. At least that's what Paul says anyway.
     
  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Have you ever fired a gun? How long after the trigger pull that the gun goes off? It is a very very short time! But the time between the Dead in Christ rising and the start of the Day of the Lord will probably be even shorter. So those events you describe will actually be a part of the DAY, not a part of the rapture.

    The Sun turning dark and the moon into blood may well be the first sign seen. But then, have we not already seen these recently? And it will be peace and safety before the rapture: then suddenly, with no warning, the trumpet will sound and the dead in Christ will fly up out of the ground, causing a worldwide earthquake, unlike this world has ever seen! But just a moment later, when those in Christ just begin to feel the earth shake, they are changed and caught up - whole those left behind cannot escape this sudden destruction earthquake. Many will die in this quake, so many will die in the opening seconds of the Day of the Lord. And Paul tells us this sudden destruction will start the Wrath of God. He hints strongly that it will start the Day of the Lord. So we have:
    dead in Christ rising
    start of sudden destruction earthquake
    Those alive and in Christ caught up
    The start of the Day of the Lord
    The day of His wrath starting.

    Where does this scenario Paul has painted fit in John's narrative of Revelation? It fits a second before the 6th seal. The 6th seal then is the start of the DAY. And yet, the book has not yet been opened because it cannot be until the 7th seal is opened.
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The rapture will definitely have an impact on the earth. To what degree is not known. The bible does not depict the day of the rapture scene here on earth because the day the rapture takes place is not given.

    Since you say the rapture can't precede the Day of the Lord - that would mean that before the Day of the Lord could be described as when you think not.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  18. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I have frequently said, let a 5th grader read a passage, and his or her take will most likely be the correct one!
     
  19. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Yes, "THEY" (Remember 2 Thess. 2:1-4 ? ) the Thessalonians feared they were going through Gods Wrath, thus Paul is telling them, YOU are not of the DARKNESS (of Satan) brothers that THAT DAY (Gods Wrath) will come upon you....BUT.....It will come upon them, like a sneak thief comes upon those who do not watch !!

    These things are not that complicated, but I see brothers who continually confuse the scriptures over and over. What I see is people come to CONCLUSIONS and God has to knock them in the head to ever change "THEIR OPINION" and most of the time that doesn't even work.

    Hes saying in VERSE 4, that those of the LIGHT will not go through the WRATH intended for those of the DARK !! How do you confuse that brother ? I will tell you how, in your mind you already understand when the rapture happens, so even though it really happens before the 70th week, the picture in your mind never sees this picture. Thus verse 4 is about "THEM BEING THERE" when its no such thing at all. Its about just the opposite, them NOT BEING THERE !! Thus THAT DAY can not come upon those of us in Christ Jesus (of the light).
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  20. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Good post!
     
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