Transgenderism Is A Real Threat To Christians

[o_mlly]

you're exactly right ...

Yes, I know but thanks just the same.

You don't know what Carl was actually talking about..?

Do you not know the goose-gander truism?

 

[Hazelelponi]

How many persons under 18 diagnosed as gender dysphoric receive genital surgery?

I'm working on getting a comprehensive numbers post together but I'm working on it very slowly because my husband is sick and feverish... he's my first priority.

I am sorry for the time.

 

[Paulos23]

One of us is right and the other is wrong. I have a rational argument, not based on personal feelings, but on evidential science or the lack of it.

Shout? Nope. Argue? Yes.

Do anorexics experience their delusions daily? Yes. Does the frequency of one's delusions really matter in determining what is real and what is not? No.

What is true is that those who are deluded feel the effects of their delusions and need help. Counseling, not hormone drugs or the surgeon's mutilating scalpel, is in order.

If an adult suffering such delusions wants to subject themselves to drugs or mutilation, then I can only pray for them. More importantly, we know that some impressionable children going through puberty may experience a transient gender dysphoria. They should be protected from those who try to normalize such transient feelings and thereby give impetus to unnecessary medical interventions.

Denying reality to delusional feelings is not holding on to old understanding but practicing "democracy of the dead" (Chesterton). The novelty of ideas generated from one's feelings should be held suspect and not elevated to truth simply because those ideas are new.

Sorry, but no. You are screaming arguments and not even acknowledging my personal experience. I have friends that are trans and they are happier now then they where. That is not something I can ignore, and it is not something I will. Just saying they should not transition doesn't cut it with me anymore.

There are people that need to transition, and others that don't, and we really need to help them figure out which way they need to go. So yes, they need psychiatric help first, but then if that doesn't work they may need the drugs and the knife. Why deny them that?

 

[Bradskii]

Yes, I know but thanks just the same.

Do you not know the goose-gander truism?

I just think it's ironic that you use a quote that suggests one gets a grip on reality. Especially when you know who said it and to what he was referring.

 

[rjs330]

I'm working on getting a comprehensive numbers post together but I'm working on it very slowly because my husband is sick and feverish... he's my first priority.

I am sorry for the time.

Due to HIPA getting numbers on this will be all but impossible. But then I am guessing that those wanting the numbers know that. When something is so controversial we have to rely on doctors being honest about it.

The fact that it has been done at all is horrifying.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Let's start a fund to airlift the LGBTQ community into Muslim Countries.

 

[Bradskii]

Poe?

 

[jayem]

Thats the problem that proper disagnosis and treatment has not been allowed. The same ideology that disallows therapy for gender dyphoria under conversion therapy laws also denies that the sex hormone imbalance is an anomely in development. Heres a ethical dilemma. If medical tech comes up with a way to rebalance the sex hormones with the body do you think this should be a treatment option.

I worked 40+ years in health care, practicing internal and occupational medicine. My practice was affiliated with a highly ranked medical school and teaching hospital. Managing gender dysphoria is way outside of my field of expertise. But our med school has a transgender clinic, staffed by physicians and counselors experienced in adolescent, and adult transgender medical care. You are seriously mistaken if you think that proper diagnosis and treatment wasn't practiced. Before anything else was done, all patients had to undergo extensive psychiatric evaluations lasting 4-5 months. As I recall, about 1/2 of the patients were accepted for gender reassignment. For the next 6 months, the adolescent and adult patients began hormone injections for feminization or masculinization. They also began dressing, behaving, and living as a woman or man. I know they had to keep a diary and check in regularly at the clinic for followup and counseling. This all took close to a year. Only after that would gender affirming surgery be scheduled. Most of the patients were fortunate to have insurance coverage. But some were treated gratis.

And for the record, this is pasted from a 2022 study on patient satisfaction after 40 years of gender affirming surgery. Only 15 of 97 patients agreed to participate. True, this is a very small sample. But the overall outcome score was positive:

Both transmasculine and transfeminine groups were more satisfied with their body postoperatively with significantly less dysphoria. Body congruency score for chest, body hair, and voice improved significantly in 40 years' postoperative settings, with average scores ranging from 84.2 to 96.2. Body congruency scores for genitals ranged from 67.5 to 79 with free flap phalloplasty showing highest scores. Long-term overall body congruency score was 89.6. Improved mental health outcomes persisted following surgery with significantly reduced suicidal ideation and reported resolution of any mental health comorbidity secondary to gender dysphoria.

October 2022 - Volume 89 - Issue 4 : Annals of Plastic Surgery

 

[stevevw]

I worked 40+ years in health care, practicing internal and occupational medicine. My practice was affiliated with a highly ranked medical school and teaching hospital. Managing gender dysphoria is way outside of my field of expertise. But our med school has a transgender clinic, staffed by physicians and counselors experienced in adolescent, and adult transgender medical care. You are seriously mistaken if you think that proper diagnosis and treatment wasn't practiced. Before anything else was done, all patients had to undergo extensive psychiatric evaluations lasting 4-5 months. As I recall, about 1/2 of the patients were accepted for gender reassignment. For the next 6 months, the adolescent and adult patients began hormone injections for feminization or masculinization. They also began dressing, behaving, and living as a woman or man. I know they had to keep a diary and check in regularly at the clinic for followup and counseling. This all took close to a year. Only after that would gender affirming surgery be scheduled. Most of the patients were fortunate to have insurance coverage. But some were treated gratis.

And for the record, this is pasted from a 2022 study on patient satisfaction after 40 years of gender affirming surgery. Only 15 of 97 patients agreed to participate. True, this is a very small sample. But the overall outcome score was positive:

Both transmasculine and transfeminine groups were more satisfied with their body postoperatively with significantly less dysphoria. Body congruency score for chest, body hair, and voice improved significantly in 40 years' postoperative settings, with average scores ranging from 84.2 to 96.2. Body congruency scores for genitals ranged from 67.5 to 79 with free flap phalloplasty showing highest scores. Long-term overall body congruency score was 89.6. Improved mental health outcomes persisted following surgery with significantly reduced suicidal ideation and reported resolution of any mental health comorbidity secondary to gender dysphoria.

October 2022 - Volume 89 - Issue 4 : Annals of Plastic Surgery

I don't think anyone is saying that transitioning is not an option for some. Its more a case of who should be transitioned. Your medical treatment example is a good one that follows the correct procedures. But I think theres still a question mark on long term satisfaction and mental illness as the better long term studies show a continuation of mental problems and in some cases even worse results.

But there were many young people being fast tracked for transitioning with minimal or no investigation into alternative causes. The British Travistock Gender Clinic is just one example. Many clinics were closed and the treatment model has been abandoned in place of a more theraputic approach.

But its not just the hormone therapy and surgery that is being pushed as a solution to all their problems. The State is pushing the ideology in schools and health when children are young and volnurable which can confuse them and even convince them they are trans when it may be another issue like Autism or other body dysmorphism or more importantly just normal development where some kids like stuff the opposite likes such as toys. But the ideology interprets all signs of opposite behaviour as trans.

Thats why we have spikes in trans and gender dysphoria where especially young girls were identifying as trans or gender different. Young kids with Autism and gays thinking they were trans when they were not.

Its the fact that much of the ideology was unsupported assumptions about human nature, about sex being a spectrum and gender identity is the real sex and person when its a subjective idea that could be the result of anything from real feelings of being Trans to a social contagion where kids and the medical sector especially gender clinics and professionals are deluding themselves and dismissing the facts of nature.

 

[o_mlly]

I just think it's ironic that you use a quote that suggests one gets a grip on reality. Especially when you know who said it and to what he was referring.

In matters of science sensory evidence and reason rule. This thread is about two sciences -- biology and psychology. However, it would be foolish to presume science and reason are coextensive. In the search for truth, reason constrains science but not vice versa.

My mind's image of Sagan is from his TV series as he beams into the stars as if he has just beheld the Beatific Vision, which I hope he now enjoys (RIP),

 

[rjs330]

I worked 40+ years in health care, practicing internal and occupational medicine. My practice was affiliated with a highly ranked medical school and teaching hospital. Managing gender dysphoria is way outside of my field of expertise. But our med school has a transgender clinic, staffed by physicians and counselors experienced in adolescent, and adult transgender medical care. You are seriously mistaken if you think that proper diagnosis and treatment wasn't practiced. Before anything else was done, all patients had to undergo extensive psychiatric evaluations lasting 4-5 months. As I recall, about 1/2 of the patients were accepted for gender reassignment. For the next 6 months, the adolescent and adult patients began hormone injections for feminization or masculinization. They also began dressing, behaving, and living as a woman or man. I know they had to keep a diary and check in regularly at the clinic for followup and counseling. This all took close to a year. Only after that would gender affirming surgery be scheduled. Most of the patients were fortunate to have insurance coverage. But some were treated gratis.

And for the record, this is pasted from a 2022 study on patient satisfaction after 40 years of gender affirming surgery. Only 15 of 97 patients agreed to participate. True, this is a very small sample. But the overall outcome score was positive:

Both transmasculine and transfeminine groups were more satisfied with their body postoperatively with significantly less dysphoria. Body congruency score for chest, body hair, and voice improved significantly in 40 years' postoperative settings, with average scores ranging from 84.2 to 96.2. Body congruency scores for genitals ranged from 67.5 to 79 with free flap phalloplasty showing highest scores. Long-term overall body congruency score was 89.6. Improved mental health outcomes persisted following surgery with significantly reduced suicidal ideation and reported resolution of any mental health comorbidity secondary to gender dysphoria.

October 2022 - Volume 89 - Issue 4 : Annals of Plastic Surgery

It's interesting that only 1/2 were received. In today's world as we saw in gender clinics around the country nearly 100% were selected for reassignment with the affirmative care model. No psychological treatment was conducted. Nearly every child that went in for treatment was transitioned.

In Europe they conducted a systematic review of all the research on transitioning and discovered the research was either inconclusive or unreliable. Most countries have stopped transitioning kids except in rare cases and in research clinics.

Those of us who opposed to transitioning kids are not denying that true gender dysphoria does not exist. What we are saying, and this has been born out now by the systemic reviews that it is extremely rare and that transitioning should only be used in the rarest of cases.

We all know that mental health issues exist in human beings from bi-polar illness to delusional illnesses. So to claim dysphoria does not or cannot exist is problematic. What is more problematic has been what has passed for treatment for those who claim they are transgender. Affirmative care has turned out to be a boondoggle as we have discovered this treatment was pushed by activists under the guise of well researched science.

Therapy First, Genspect and a endocrinologist organization, who name escapes me at the moment are organizations of therapists and endocrinologists who recognize that transgenderism has become a politicized field largely organized by activists and children have born the brunt of the issues and have been over medicalized based upon faulty research pushed by activists.

 

[rjs330]

And for the record, this is pasted from a 2022 study on patient satisfaction after 40 years of gender affirming surgery. Only 15 of 97 patients agreed to participate. True, this is a very small sample. But the overall outcome score was positive:

That works out to less than one patient a year. And only 15% of the total number. Another completely unreliable study sold as valid research to support the transitioning of children. It's not acceptable.

 

[o_mlly]

Sorry, but no. You are screaming arguments and not even acknowledging my personal experience.

I can't acknowledge what you did not heretofore share. As to screaming, I try to follow Max Ehrmann's advice. I hope your friends are doing well.

 

[Bradskii]

In matters of science sensory evidence and reason rule. This thread is about two sciences -- biology and psychology.

Sex and gender in this case. It really seems to be a problem with some people that they're not one and the same thing. That is the reality. Why is it so difficult to grasp? Or, more accurately: Why do some people refuse to grasp it?

If you start an argument with 'Biological sex and gender are the same thing, therefore...' then everything after 'therefore'will be a waste of your time typing. On the other hand, if you start with 'Biological sex and gender are different, but...' then people might read what you have to say about it. They may not agree with what you say, but at least you can get your point over.

 

[BCP1928]

Sex and gender in this case. It really seems to be a problem with some people that they're not one and the same thing. That is the reality. Why is it so difficult to grasp? Or, more accurately: Why do some people refuse to grasp it?

If you start an argument with 'Biological sex and gender are the same thing, therefore...' then everything after 'therefore'will be a waste of your time typing. On the other hand, if you start with 'Biological sex and gender are different, but...' then people might read what you have to say about it. They may not agree with what you say, but at least you can get your point over.

Conservatives know that they are not the same thing, it's just that they believe there is only one allowable 'gender package' for each set of reproductive organs. Allowing nonconformity to the prescribed package is a recipe for social disorder. This has been particularly difficult for some men (especially for working class and rural men) as their prescribed gender package is becoming less functional in a changing society.

 

[Bradskii]

Conservatives know that they are not the same thing, it's just that they believe there is only one allowable 'gender package' for each set of reproductive organs.

But it's a denial of reality. And I don't understand that. It's basically dishonest. We all can see the difference between a man who has all the attributes that society deems macho and one that has attributes that might be described as effeminate. They'll both be biological men, but we all understand that there's a significant difference in how they are perceived. And, much more importantly, how they perceive themselves.

They are not the same. How can this possibly be denied?

 

[BCP1928]

But it's a denial of reality. And I don't understand that. It's basically dishonest. We all can see the difference between a man who has all the attributes that society deems macho and one that has attributes that might be described as effeminate. They'll both be biological men, but we all understand that there's a significant difference in how they are perceived. And, much more importantly, how they perceive themselves.

They are not the same. How can this possibly be denied?

It's not denied, it's branded as sin and has to be stamped out for the good order of society.

 

[Bradskii]

It's not denied, it's branded as sin and has to be stamped out for the good order of society.

As I said in a post upstream, if the argument was 'I can see there's a difference, but...' then I'd listen to any argument that followed. Including '...it's a sin and has got be stamped out'. But there are more than one or two that post constantly in threads like this that literally deny that there is a difference between sex and gender.

It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion on that basis.

 

[BCP1928]

As I said in a post upstream, if the argument was 'I can see there's a difference, but...' then I'd listen to any argument that followed. Including '...it's a sin and has got be stamped out'. But there are more than one or two that post constantly in threads like this that literally deny that there is a difference between sex and gender.

It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion on that basis.

But it saves them having to argue about why one gender package is objectively superior to another--an argument which they know they generally lose.

 

[Kokavkrystallos]

You see the condition of society today, especially in America and the West. Everything is ripe for Jesus return. You have the major world powers opposed to each other over wars. You have homosexuality and "strange flesh" being adopted as "normal" and promoted all over the world, by the US government! Don't believe that? This is taken strait from the US State Departments website:
"It shall be the policy of the United States to pursue an end to violence and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or sex characteristics, and to lead by the power of our example in the cause of advancing the human rights of LGBTQI+ persons around the world.” PRESIDENT JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR." Advancing the Human Rights of LGBTQI+ Persons Around the World - United States Department of State