Transgender son

[LoraElise]

You might be confusing me with someone else. I don't remember writing that.

My apologies. I misread the post.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

My apologies. I misread the post.

Don't worry about it.

 

[LoraElise]

The possiblity is small because so many studies have so many results. Females with masculinzed brains are not transgendered because they don't consider themselves male, even though they tend tobe more aggressive than other girls. Men with feminized brain are more likely to be homosexual, but not transgendered. Girls with female bodies and female brains consider themselves female, even though they have a Y chromosome.

I thought you insisted all XY's are male. You also keep insisting that homosexual men have feminized brains, which is not true -- their brains are male in structure (Swaab and Hofman, 1988, et al).

If you refuse to accept the many studies showing a physical cause for gender dysphoria (which by any reasonable standard are convincing) and fall back on the position that the studies 'have so many results,' you cannot be adamant that gender dysphoria is merely psychological. Either the jury is out or it isn't, and you have no excuse for denying the existence of female brains in male bodies. You can say "I don't know either way," but that's all.

Unless, of course, bias is involved...

 

[Paul 5]

The human race has been around for a very long time,this thing of trying to make a man into a woman has been around a very short time,how did all those men survive down through the ages that felt like they should have been a woman? Obviously they did survive and so obviously the men today who feel like they should have been a woman can cope with it without cutting and drugs.

 

[Zebra1552]

The human race has been around for a very long time,this thing of trying to make a man into a woman has been around a very short time,how did all those men survive down through the ages that felt like they should have been a woman? Obviously they did survive and so obviously the men today who feel like they should have been a woman can cope with it without cutting and drugs.

Is this the same coping one should do if they're suicidal and have severe depression? Or the same coping one should do if they have bipolar? Or the same coping one should do in a bad family situation? If so, your advice is very very crude.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

The human race has been around for a very long time,this thing of trying to make a man into a woman has been around a very short time,how did all those men survive down through the ages that felt like they should have been a woman? Obviously they did survive and so obviously the men today who feel like they should have been a woman can cope with it without cutting and drugs.

Oh gosh this one is a simple answer. Lemme break it down for you. We have always been around, now then. Science and medicine bring us the hormones we need to fully transition. Not so sure that its been around for eternity. How did they survive? They survived the say way people who preferred to be with those of the same sex. Secretly or by passing so well with their looks that it didn't matter. All too often, the LGBT community has been persecuted. Oh yes. Even now being out in certain places is a hazard to your health. Wanna know why? The religious. Those people brave enough or lucky enough to pass did so without meds and surgery. Not sure what this cutting you ignorantly refer to is. Srs is alot more than a snip procedure.

People. If you have no clue what we are, what we go through, please don't be ignorant and post opinions like facts. It is not a choice, it isn't the penis being cut off, it isn't anything you can understand. So why why why why why do you post your obviously wrong views as facts? If I told you the bible was wrong, everything you believe in is wrong, the sky is purple, up is down etc. You would be fuming. I just blasted you with obviously wrong information and mocked everything you stand for. Why would you do that to us?

Why?

 

[LoraElise]

The human race has been around for a very long time,this thing of trying to make a man into a woman has been around a very short time,how did all those men survive down through the ages that felt like they should have been a woman? Obviously they did survive and so obviously the men today who feel like they should have been a woman can cope with it without cutting and drugs.

We have no way to know that. An extremely small percentage of the population suffers with this -- there could have been an awful lot of suicides (and deaths due to deliberately jumping into danger) down through the centuries.

And it is a very callous and compassionless thing to suggest "they can just cope with it."

 

[Paul 5]

Is this the same coping one should do if they're suicidal and have severe depression? Or the same coping one should do if they have bipolar? Or the same coping one should do in a bad family situation? If so, your advice is very very crude.[/quote All of the stuff that we have (bipolar for one) is just yesterday in the history of the human race. Just a hundred years ago none of this stuff existed in name yet people survived. What would happen if you were bipolar or suicidal or had severe depression or was a man that felt like you should be a woman in Haiti? You would either have to cope or die.

 

[Paul 5]

Oh gosh this one is a simple answer. Lemme break it down for you. We have always been around, now then. Science and medicine bring us the hormones we need to fully transition. Not so sure that its been around for eternity. How did they survive? They survived the say way people who preferred to be with those of the same sex. Secretly or by passing so well with their looks that it didn't matter. All too often, the LGBT community has been persecuted. Oh yes. Even now being out in certain places is a hazard to your health. Wanna know why? The religious. Those people brave enough or lucky enough to pass did so without meds and surgery. Not sure what this cutting you ignorantly refer to is. Srs is alot more than a snip procedure.

People. If you have no clue what we are, what we go through, please don't be ignorant and post opinions like facts. It is not a choice, it isn't the penis being cut off, it isn't anything you can understand. So why why why why why do you post your obviously wrong views as facts? If I told you the bible was wrong, everything you believe in is wrong, the sky is purple, up is down etc. You would be fuming. I just blasted you with obviously wrong information and mocked everything you stand for. Why would you do that to us?

Why?

Because you have "feelings" that you as a man should really be a woman, therefore is it reasonable to take drugs to make you look and feel like "your feelings" even though your feelings are contrary to the body that you have? Why not consider that the feelings could be wrong and see if there is a physical or psychological reason for having such feelings? I mean,why insist that you are a woman in a man's body when there could be an actual reason WHY you feel that way. We all know that feelings cannot be trusted,sometimes they are correct and other times they are completely wrong. It is a huge jump to assume that you are a woman in a man's body because there is no scientific evidence to support such a claim,so is it unreasonable to see if the feelings could be out of wack? Why assume that your feelings have to be correct and everything else should give way to allow your feelings to be expressed?

 

[TammyRae]

Because you have "feelings" that you as a man should really be a woman, therefore is it reasonable to take drugs to make you look and feel like "your feelings" even though your feelings are contrary to the body that you have?....

Thank you. A poster elsewhere equated it to Anorexia which I thought was helpful.... dysfunctional mental body image from illness inflicted by environment and our unhealthy, lost human world. It really saddens me to see society now pandering to it in the name of "enlightenment" and diversity and encouraging these folks even further down this path with hormonal and surgical procedures :-(

 

[jennimatts]

Actually if you look back on my arguments I haven't yet mentioned either God or the Bible. My arguments have been about the biological nature of sex and society's views on gender.

You could not go to the Bible to support your opinion, because any citation you make will be nullified by the fact that you choose to reinterpret other scripture to suit your beliefs.

Your profile indicates you believe theistic evolution, so you you begin reinterpreting scripture right from the beginning. You would have no basis whatsoever to conclude that scripture prohibits persons from changing gender because there are other reasonable interpretations of the same scripture that do not.

I see no reason why the biological nature of sex is relevant. Being female, I could have sex with a man, and he would have no idea I was born with XY chromosomes. Is there a valid reason why the biological nature of sex should prohibit a sex change?

Why should society's views have any bearing on this topic? In regard to society, why shouldn't we have the liberty to define our gender as we see fit?

I am not harming society by being a woman. No one in my community knows about my unusual medical history, and they don't need to. In society, I'm indistinguishable from any other woman, and because I am happy about myself, I am a better and more productive citizen. As a result, should my medical history become known, I suggest society would be wise to accept me as a woman.

 

[Zebra1552]

Thank you. A poster elsewhere equated it to Anorexia which I thought was helpful.... dysfunctional mental body image from illness inflicted by environment and our unhealthy, lost human world. It really saddens me to see society now pandering to it in the name of "enlightenment" and diversity and encouraging these folks even further down this path with hormonal and surgical procedures :-(

Please show from any medical or psychological source that transgenderism is an illness, disease, or condition. Until you can, your claim is meaningless.

 

[Zebra1552]

Because you have "feelings" that you as a man should really be a woman, therefore is it reasonable to take drugs to make you look and feel like "your feelings" even though your feelings are contrary to the body that you have? Why not consider that the feelings could be wrong and see if there is a physical or psychological reason for having such feelings? I mean,why insist that you are a woman in a man's body when there could be an actual reason WHY you feel that way. We all know that feelings cannot be trusted,sometimes they are correct and other times they are completely wrong. It is a huge jump to assume that you are a woman in a man's body because there is no scientific evidence to support such a claim,so is it unreasonable to see if the feelings could be out of wack? Why assume that your feelings have to be correct and everything else should give way to allow your feelings to be expressed?

Self defeating argument: You insist that her feelings must be wrong while ignoring the fact that you are using your own feelings on the subject and relying on feelings yourself. Taken to their logical conclusion, your statements about feelings will only lead to a very emotionally dysfunctional person. Why do you insist that their feelings are wrong when you have no evidence to that effect?

 

[jennimatts]

You're argument seems to be that a person can always have surgery simply to make themselves fel better. If they want to be whiter or thinner that's fine. I'm not so sure - if a person repeatedly has facial surgery to the point where they no longer look human (like the late pop star Michael Jackson), this might be a sign they are becomeing addicted to surgery. At this point, shouldn't we encourage them to stop instead of saying "It's their choice"?

You seem unable to understand that sex reassignment is a process that involves decades of research, treatment and follow-up studies. It is much different than a face lift, bleaching the skin, or weight control surgery.

The standards of care have many requirements that seek to ensure the individual is truly gender dysphoric and capable of living as the desired gender before surgery is recommended. If the patient doesn't meet the criteria, they will not get the recommendation for surgery. So, sex reassignment is not solely their choice, one must first be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and the process is under the supervision of qualified medical professionals.

 

[jennimatts]

I brought it up because it questions what the cause of transgenderism is.

If you refuse to accept the many studies showing a physical cause for gender dysphoria (which by any reasonable standard are convincing) and fall back on the position that the studies 'have so many results,' you cannot be adamant that gender dysphoria is merely psychological. Either the jury is out or it isn't, and you have no excuse for denying the existence of female brains in male bodies. You can say "I don't know either way," but that's all.

Unless, of course, bias is involved...

Honestly, in terms of treatment for gender dysphoria the cause matters not at all. The fact remains that the treatment has an unusually high success rate in relieving this condition.

 

[jennimatts]

You're missing the point. I'm asking whether we should blithely change our bodies...

We don't change our bodies on a whim. Sex reassignment is a long process that requires substantial commitment and preparation.

...to fit in with what society, or whether society itself should change. Shouldn't we address the underlying assumption that being dark-skinned is bad, rather than encourage people to whiten their skin? When people have ribs removed so they can look thinner, shouldn't we question whether being so thin is healthy?

By these analogies, you appear to be suggesting that rather than change our bodies, it would be better to change society to be more accepting of gender variance...

Before you answer - consider the fact that, by being transgendered, you encourage the idea that society should change it's ideas on gender. If simply you wanted to fit in you should have remained a man.

...then you appear to take the position that to change society would be wrong, and we should change neither?

 

[jennimatts]

The human race has been around for a very long time,this thing of trying to make a man into a woman has been around a very short time,how did all those men survive down through the ages that felt like they should have been a woman? Obviously they did survive and so obviously the men today who feel like they should have been a woman can cope with it without cutting and drugs.

On what basis can you claim this is obvious that "they did survive"? Suicide has been around for a long time.

Beside that, even if they did survive with this condition, it doesn't say anything about their quality of life. They may have been completely miserable, just as I was before transition. So, on what basis can you logically suggest "men today who feel like they should have been a woman can cope with it"?

 

[FaithPrevails]

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[JCFantasy23]

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