Transgender "Inclusive"Language:Where does it end and begin?

[Armoured]

I said "married," not "dating." Marriage involves sex and that would be one XY having sex with another XY. Is that not the definition of homosexuality?

It's A definition of homosexuality...

But let me pose you another scenario... how do you feel about a couple with XX and XY chromosomes getting married and having sex when one of them is, in fact, transgendered and has undergone GRT? So even though they're genetically heterosexual, they are, for all practical purposes, a homosexual couple?

 

[Dave-W]

so someone is comitting a sin if they don't know the person is male? Or they are interseted in them because of their outward appearance? Man this is pretty intolerant.

People commit sins all the time in ignorance.

 

[Dave-W]

Chromosones is a stupid way to classify someone, as it doesn't at all relate to appearance, so unless your going to force everyone to have their chromosones checked your not going to find their sex, the way your going. And lets say you find someone thats a male chromosonally but for some reason they have the appearance of a female, are you going to force them into surgery? What will you do to enforce this keeping with their chromosomes?

There are so many situations where males look female, or females look male to a small extent, or carry both genders, this nonsense idea of gender being black or white is outdated.

There are even groups of humans where 'females' become male at puberty, how should they be treated?

Yes I understand all that. And I am in a quandary as to what should be done with/to/for these people.

It has been a concern of mine since the 1970s when I read about a guy who was in jr. high school and all of a sudden started to bleed "down there." (behind the scrotum) Turned out "he" was actually a female but had male parts. That was "his" first period. No one knew.

AFAIK, the Church as a whole (or even major denominations) have never fully addressed this issue. Either they say such a person should not ever get married or have sex, (which ignores the fact that ONLY those with a supernatural gift of celibacy can properly do that) or they have embraced the gay agenda that says homosexual relations are ok. Neither approach is biblically correct. There needs to be intense prayer and fasting for the proper way to address this issue.

 

[Dave-W]

But let me pose you another scenario... how do you feel about a couple with XX and XY chromosomes getting married and having sex when one of them is, in fact, transgendered and has undergone GRT? So even though they're genetically heterosexual, they are, for all practical purposes, a homosexual couple?

Fair enough. IMO the person who underwent GRT is in fact living in sin. So that throws the whole thing into a sinful situation.

 

[Armoured]

Fair enough. IMO the person who underwent GRT is in fact living in sin. So that throws the whole thing into a sinful situation.

How's GRT sinful?

 

[com7fy8]

Ladies have what men can't have, in various ways, not only physical.

Such as?

Well . . . the "easy" answer is women can get pregnant. And I'll offer that sexual parts are for reproducing, not only for using people to get pleasure. And a woman has the ability to help a man, in ways that men can't. I think we can see how, in general, women have been able to do men good in ways that men have not helped each other. They can support, and be reminders of how a guy needs to be kind and caring and nurturing. But, "of course", I understand this is developed partly because of culture and maybe even what you might call "brainwashing".

But if in general ladies have weaker bodies, this can induce them to develop in ways and methods which take more brains and sensitivity and gentleness, and men need to know how to use their brains and be sensitive and gentle, too, so we don't do ourselves in. So, we need ladies to help us with this.

There are things, not only sexual, which women are specialized for, which men can't be and do.

NAME ONE.

This would go more for after a woman becomes a Christian and God changes her into all that is possible for each lady of Jesus. If you are still in a fallen state, you "might" not know what you can do and how you can be good for other people like you could be, with God through Jesus.

It is not an identity thing, but simply how God has designed each individual.

Either he's really bad at following his own plans or you're wrong about sex. See my previous post about XX males and XY females.

No, no . . . the problems now are not because of how God designed us. But after He made humans right, humans went after wrong stuff which got them in the messes and confusion we now see . . . or refuse to see.

Let me bring a different perspective: God intended transwomen to be female and transmen to be male, but due to the fallen creation, they were born with the wrong body...much like how people are born with broken or missing body parts.

Except that they do have usable parts, in a number of "cases". And we can learn how to handle and use well whatever we do have . . . in God's sufficient grace (2 Corinthians 12:9) with His creativity. Only with God can we learn what to do with what we have > Matthew 11:28-30 < we learn with Jesus, who is "gentle and lowly in heart" with us, "and you will find rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:28-30) What we need is how He "alters" us, spiritually and emotionally, so we can be creative and do the loving things and sharing which He intended for us to do with whatever we do have.

What a pity we have this on a Christian forum

acknowledged . . . good to meet you, Malvina God bless you, t

I will offer that we can do good, not in vain, "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (Philippians 2:14-16), and right "in the presence of my enemies" (Psalm 23:5) we can have and enjoy and share all that our Father has for us, of His own table You would be right to say we need to have our minds "on things above" (Colossians 3:2). And we can > right in the midst of all this world does to distract us, we can seek and talk about all the good things of God and His word.

Satan was in Heaven itself, and it was not good enough for him. And now we see how people in sin are not able to be satisfied with all that God has given to us. They want to be something different and have things different. Well, we do need ourselves to become different . . . how our Father is able to change us, to correct us > Hebrews 12:4-11, so we can then enjoy and appreciate Him and "be content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5). We can be content with Jesus, right in the middle of this world's nasty nonsense. God bless you, too

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I'm a bit late to the discussion, and it appears the OP is more interested in venting her frustrations and knocking over strawmen than in having a productive discussion and learning something new, but here goes:

Gender is not identical with our biological dimorphism. A LOT of cultural factors are involved in determining what we regard as "typically" male or female. Clothing, for example. There's nothing inherently male or female about a skirt: we associate this article of clothing almost exclusively with women, but historically speaking, it was an exclusively male garb.
Gender is a product of socialization, not biology. We start to treat children differently almost from birth (as has been demonstrated by several studies), yet some people do not feel that they belong to the role assigned to them on account of their reproductive organs. That's not a "lifestyle choice", and it usually manifests at a very early age, shaping a person's identity long before they reach puberty - even if they face ridicule or are punished by less than understanding parents or authority figures.
Other cultures have accomodated more than two genders, yet ours is so deeply committed to the dual structure that intersexed newborns (whose genitalia place them outside of this model) were surgically "corrected" in the past - often to the detriment of the affected.

If biology was the only determining factor here, infertile women who do not experience menstruation would not be "real" women, either.

 

[KarateCowboy]

It is a pity that transgender people, and other people who actually show them respect and compassion, feel it necessary to speak up against all of the misinformation, misconception, and even prejudice that transgender people often encounter on a Christian forum such as this one. It is also a pity that there is such a lack of respect and compassion among many Christians for people who are different from how they are or simply people they do not like and approve of. It is a shame that many Christians fail to love their neighbor, that being transgender people in this case, as they would love themselves or to treat other people, transgender people included, as they would like to be treated. So, in that respect, I agree with you. It is a pity we have this on a Christian forum. We should expect more from these Christians, such as showing the love of Christ.

It's a pity fauxgender even exists. It's a primitive, crude way of dealing with a mental illness.

 

[Armoured]

It's a pity fauxgender even exists. It's a primitive, crude way of dealing with a mental illness.

Yet it's the best legions of specialists have yet come up with, and continue to work on. Maybe you shouldn't throw rocks unless you have a better solution?

 

[KarateCowboy]

Yet it's the best legions of specialists have yet come up with, and continue to work on. Maybe you shouldn't throw rocks unless you have a better solution?

Psychotherapy is much better. The thing is it's not conspicuous so you don't really hear about it, even though it's employed successfully.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The pathologization of trans*-people is part of (if not THE) problem, not the solution.

See, an important factor in psychological health is what Freud called "Leidensdruck" (literally: "suffering-pressure", tanslated as "psychological strain/stress"): but with trans*-people, this suffering derives mostly from the hate and rejection inflicted upon them by other people.

It's as if you tried to defend racial segregation by pointing out that people will be harassed by racists if different ethnicities were to mix.

 

[KarateCowboy]

See, an important factor in psychological health is what Freud called "Leidensdruck" (literally: "suffering-pressure", tanslated as "psychological strain/stress"): but with trans*-people, this suffering derives mostly from the hate and rejection inflicted upon them by other people.

This is dogma, not reality. Saying it over and over does not make it true.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Psychotherapy is much better. The thing is it's not conspicuous so you don't really hear about it, even though it's employed successfully.

Modern psychotherapy for people with gender identity disorders does not resemble the conservative conception of a dual gender structure based on naturalistic fallacies, though. Quite the contrary, having the patient realize just how much of our gender roles is based on random cultural factors is a crucial part of such a treatment.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

This is dogma, not reality. Saying it over and over does not make it true.

So, you believe that a) trans*-people aren't harassed, insulted, rejected, or physically assaulted, or b) you do not believe that these reactions have got anything to do with whether they are content or suffering?

Unless you live in an alternate bizarro universe, violence (both physical and psychological) aimed at trans*-persons is a daily reality.

 

[Red Fox]

Lies! Foul lies and blasphemy! You have truly been deceived by Satan! Everyone knows Emma Bunton was the best Spice Girl!

No, no, no, you have both been deceived by Satan to think that the Spice Girls even deserve mentioning. The shame...

 

[Armoured]

Psychotherapy is much better. The thing is it's not conspicuous so you don't really hear about it, even though it's employed successfully.

gunna have to slap a big ol' [citation needed] on ya, there.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

No, no, no, you have both been deceived by Satan to think that the Spice Girls even deserve mentioning. The shame...

I liked Geri "Ginger Spice" Halliwell until she declared her undying allegiance to the conservative party and Margaret Thatcher (though I did share her dislike for Blair's "New Labour").

 

[SnowyMacie]

Except that they do have usable parts, in a number of "cases". And we can learn how to handle and use well whatever we do have . . . in God's sufficient grace (2 Corinthians 12:9) with His creativity. Only with God can we learn what to do with what we have > Matthew 11:28-30 < we learn with Jesus, who is "gentle and lowly in heart" with us, "and you will find rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:28-30) What we need is how He "alters" us, spiritually and emotionally, so we can be creative and do the loving things and sharing which He intended for us to do with whatever we do have.

I don't think you understood what I was saying, Gender Dysphoria is a physical birth defect just like what I was born with, a cleft lip and palate. No amount of "learning how to handle and use it well" nor "spiritual and emotional alteration" could have sealed the hole that I was born with in my palate and lip. Jesus didn't tell the man born blind to just "learn to cope with it, and I'll alter spiritually and emotionally alter your mindset so you can become my disciple." No, he physically healed him and many others because God cares about our physical needs and well-being. Sickness, birth defects, etc. are not spiritual problems that need spiritual answers, they are physical problems that require physical healing.

It's a pity fauxgender even exists. It's a primitive, crude way of dealing with a mental illness.

Psychotherapy is much better. The thing is it's not conspicuous so you don't really hear about it, even though it's employed successfully.

Our current method for treating Gender Dysphoria is the most successful. In fact, many transgender individuals do not seek full transition, some only seek partial, and some seek none. The only common thing is psychotherapy.

 

[Cute Tink]

I said "married," not "dating." Marriage involves sex and that would be one XY having sex with another XY. Is that not the definition of homosexuality?

Not any definition I have ever heard. Nobody classifies male or female by chromosomes in society. Nobody classifies relationships by chromosomes.

 

[Cute Tink]

Psychotherapy is much better. The thing is it's not conspicuous so you don't really hear about it, even though it's employed successfully.

Source?