Toy companies claim to be feminist

ThatRobGuy

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The Catholic Church needs to be middle of the road.

Banning women priests could cause the Catholic Church
to become too Right wing.
...as I noted before, how would that be a bad thing? If they either move (or stay) too far right, people will leave and find another denomination to go to.

But the overarching question is:
What do you see as the main function of religion?

Is it to convey a series of truths and practices/adherences that one's afterlife depends on? Or it's it to appeal to the most amount of people in order to keep the seats filled?

Sounds like harsh phrasing, but it's a serious question.

I ask because what happens when the Overton Window shifts in one direction or the other, and "middle of the road" isn't where it was 25 years prior?

For instance, if 25 years from now 85% of people believe "Jesus was just a guy, but he's not really the son of God, and nobody can't really rise from the dead...those were just nice stories", will the Catholic Church still have an obligation to be "middle of the road" under those circumstances?
 
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Love365

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...as I noted before, how would that be a bad thing? If they either move (or stay) too far right, people will leave and find another denomination to go to.

But the overarching question is:
What do you see as the main function of religion?
John the Baptist baptized Jesus.

Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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John the Baptist baptized Jesus.

Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus.

That doesn't really answer my question...

What is the main function of religion?

We, as a society, give it special exemptions and protections, so there has to be a compelling reason to do so.

I say this as a moderate (who actually disagrees with the notion of disqualifying potential leaders for being female, which is why you wouldn't see me in a Catholic Church even if I was religious), if the only point to it is to be non-controversial, and appeal to whatever the moderate sensibilities of the day are (as to not offend anyone), then I fail to see the point in giving religion any more special treatment than any other preference based beliefs.

Within that framework, what separates religious beliefs from beliefs about what the best football team is or what the best brand of car is?

I certainly don't want to have codified legal protections or special treatment issued for something that could change tomorrow.
 
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PloverWing

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I'll give a friendly "partial pushback" on that one a little bit :)

Given that most religions and denominations (at least within the Abrahamic faiths) are heavily doctrine-based (whether it be the Torah, Talmud, Bible, Quran), if you give members the ability to simply "vote out" the provisions people don't like, then wouldn't that sort of water the whole thing down to a degree or make it (not to sound harsh), pointless?

If one is to believe that those doctrines represent "The perfect word of God", does the democratic process into play?

Thanks for your friendly partial pushback. :) You have some good thoughts here, and you're right that religious belief and practice isn't just a matter of taking a vote on what stuff we like and don't like.

I'll speak from a Christian point of view, noting that I see some similar tensions within the other Abrahamic faiths.

There are a couple of factors at play here.

1) We are trying to live our lives in accordance with the will of the Creator of the Universe. This is of utmost importance to us.

2) We are imperfect humans who often make mistakes in understanding God and God's will.

We do our best, but because of #2, we occasionally realize that we need to correct something that we've been believing or doing for a while. We'll see that we mistook a cultural custom for God's will, or that we misunderstood a passage of Scripture, or that one of our important ethical principles has implications that we simply didn't pay attention to before. And then we make corrections. It's not a simple majority vote; it's more like conversations and prayer and reflection and more conversations over a very long period of time. We're still genuinely trying to discern God's will.

So, it's those two things in tension. It's of utmost importance to follow God's will, and it can be tough figuring out what God's will is.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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1) We are trying to live our lives in accordance with the will of the Creator of the Universe. This is of utmost importance to us.
2) We are imperfect humans who often make mistakes in understanding God and God's will.

We do our best, but because of #2, we occasionally realize that we need to correct something that we've been believing or doing for a while. We'll see that we mistook a cultural custom for God's will, or that we misunderstood a passage of Scripture, or that one of our important ethical principles has implications that we simply didn't pay attention to before. And then we make corrections. It's not a simple majority vote; it's more like conversations and prayer and reflection and more conversations over a very long period of time. We're still genuinely trying to discern God's will.

My rebuttal to that would be, if the holy text concisely and clearly states something, how can one reconcile opposing that within the framework of understanding God's intent?

While there are certainly allegorical and vague things in each of the holy books that scholars and interpreters can disagree on, there are certain things that are pretty straight forward.

For instance (in the context of what the OP stated, which was hoping that that their church would accept the idea of female leaders)

How would one reconcile what they want, with a verse like this?

KJV Bible: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence
Torah: Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve
Quran/Hadith: Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler


If followers of said texts are going to use those texts as a guide for several other aspects of their lives based on other verses, what's the rationale for ignoring these particular verses while holding fast to the others?

Either those books represent the will of the creator of the universe or they don't. To me (no matter how you slice it), it comes across as selectively choosing which rules one wants to follow in order to keep them in the good graces of their social circles.


It should be noted, I ask the same tough questions of people approaching it from a conservative angle as well. I've had several posts where I critique the conservative side for taking such a hard line on homosexuality, but seemingly taking a a much more lax attitude on gluttony (despite the multiple verses that equate gluttony with idolatry)
 
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PloverWing

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My rebuttal to that would be, if the holy text concisely and clearly states something, how can one reconcile opposing that within the framework of understanding God's intent?

If followers of said texts are going to use those texts as a guide for several other aspects of their lives based on other verses, what's the rationale for ignoring these particular verses while holding fast to the others?

Either those books represent the will of the creator of the universe or they don't. To me (no matter how you slice it), it comes across as selectively choosing which rules one wants to follow in order to keep them in the good graces of their social circles.

The holy texts are not always concise and clear, even if we set aside poetic passages like the Psalms and focus on direct instructions, as in St Paul's letters. Taking the passage from I Timothy that you cited, Christians find it difficult in two ways:

1) St Paul wrote a letter giving advice to Timothy regarding Timothy's church. Was that intended for all churches in all places, or just for Timothy's particular situation?

2) I Timothy needs to be read together with other New Testament passages (some from St Paul's own letters!) saying that men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slaves and free people are all "one in Christ Jesus"; saying that we aren't supposed to have the same kinds of power structures that the "Gentiles" have; and listing female leaders in the early church. Various theologians balance these passages in different ways. The point is that the exclusion of women is not a message that we find consistently throughout the New Testament. (Neither is the inclusion of women, for that matter.)

As a third point, I'll mention that I've read scholarly debates over exactly what the passage from I Timothy is prohibiting. I'm not enough of a Greek or historical scholar to engage that debate here, but I felt I should note it.

[ I will leave to the rabbis and the Islamic scholars the question of how they should interpret their own sacred texts. ]
 
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Pommer

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Toy companies claim to be feminist.
Let’s put that theory to the test.

Some churches allow women to be priests.

Does Barbie make a woman priest?
No

Does Lego make a woman priest mini figure ?
No

Does Playmobil make a woman priest?
No

Does Funko make a woman priest?
No

Are these toy companies really feminist ?
But why American Politics?
 
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