Totus Tuus sum Maria

[Ginny]

ditto...please don't do that again.

 

[Iollain]

Won't hurt ya's a bit

 

[InnerPhyre]

This prayer troubles me a bit, and I have no problem with asking for the intercession of the Theotokos. I do acknowledge, however, that I am not the supreme authority on such things, and I suspect that if the Pope had better explained the meaning of this, what we would get as a deeper explanation is probably not the same thing we come away with just by reading this ourselves. Still, it's not a prayer that I would say. I'll stick to "Ave maria gratia plena...etc"

 

[Cary.Melvin]

This prayer troubles me a bit, and I have no problem with asking for the intercession of the Theotokos. I do acknowledge, however, that I am not the supreme authority on such things, and I suspect that if the Pope had better explained the meaning of this, what we would get as a deeper explanation is probably not the same thing we come away with just by reading this ourselves. Still, it's not a prayer that I would say. I'll stick to "Ave maria gratia plena...etc"

I am going to go out on a limb here and say I don't think John Paul II really wrote that prayer. I still havn't found where this prayer is published other than that one website which does not cite where it came from. It does sound strange to this American Catholic.

 

[InnerPhyre]

The consensus in OBOB seems to be that this prayer just sounds wrong...I'm starting to wonder if the Pope even wrote it as well. If he did, I wish we could hear his explanation of it.

 

[BT]

Won't hurt ya's a bit

Nope I suppose that it would be rather good for us all.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I'm starting to wonder if the Pope even wrote it as well. If he did, I wish we could hear his explanation of it.

http://www.stjames-cathedral.org/liturgy/jp2/jp2album.htm

I will contiue my search tommorrow. But from what I got tonight, he used the phrase ALOT and had the M on his robe to represt his devotion to mary.
GEL

 

[InnerPhyre]

http://www.stjames-cathedral.org/liturgy/jp2/jp2album.htm

I will contiue my search tommorrow. But from what I got tonight, he used the phrase ALOT and had the M on his robe to represt his devotion to mary.
GEL

I don't doubt his devotion to Mary. As I said, I think devotion to her is great. I'm just unsure about that prayer. I'd like to talk to him about it and see what he meant.

 

[bigsierra]

http://www.stjames-cathedral.org/liturgy/jp2/jp2album.htm

I will contiue my search tommorrow. But from what I got tonight, he used the phrase ALOT and had the M on his robe to represt his devotion to mary.
GEL

He was definately devoted to Mary. Out of all the things to be devoted to, King, Country, Family, or whatever else one can be devoted to, beneath Christ, she is a good pick, but how far that's taken is the question. That prayer seemed to take it too far. You all may not realized, but we are very similar to you, in that we don't believe Mary should be worshipped either. I'm reading some thing Thereselittleflower recommended to see if I can understand better, now. Hopefully, I do, but I'm not in that place at the moment.

 

[Ginny]

Main Entry: de·vo·tion
1 a : religious fervor : [size=-1][/size] piety b : an act of prayer or private worship -- usually used in plural c : a religious exercise or practice other than the regular corporate worship of a congregation
2 a : the act of devoting b : the fact or state of being ardently dedicated and loyal (as to an idea or person)
3 obsolete : the object of one's devotion
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Until I am biblically told to do so...... seems to me like God is saying we are equal.

Matthew 1246While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”[g] 48He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Wouldn't that be something if one day when we got to Heaven Jesus asked, "What were you doing?" Guess that question will pertain to many things.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Devotion does not imply worship. I am devoted to my family and friends, to my Church. I don't worship any of these. If you are married, you are devoted to your spouse. If you're a patriot, you're devoted to your nation.

 

[Ginny]

Devotion does not imply worship. I am devoted to my family and friends, to my Church. I don't worship any of these. If you are married, you are devoted to your spouse. If you're a patriot, you're devoted to your nation.

I do not feel that is the same in comparison. You are devoted to your spouse in the terms that you should never leave them, you will stand by them, you will be married until the day you die. You can be devoted to church with the meaning that you will serve them, minister to others, and love Christ's body within that church that you were led to join. You can be devoted to your country by serving the people whether that be through community service, the armed services, etc. If it is the same with Mary, please show me where.

I have devotion to Jesus Christ b/c none other deserves it. If there were no Mary, would Jesus still not be able to perform what he intended? Through God, all things are possible. If God wanted it, Jesus could have appeared out of thin air. with that being said, as I stated in another post, Mary certainly was blessed b/c she was able to fill the duty as a human body to carry the Son of God. Joseph also raised Jesus, too, as an earthly father. There are several people that played critical roles in the life and death of Jesus Christ making it possible for Him to save us.

(1)How is one "devoted" to Mary is the question, and
(2)What all does that entail?

Once that is defined with biblical proof, I am all ears. Thank you for anyone who will provide the scripture that we are to pray to her, where it is stated she (along with other saints) is an intercessor between us and God, and why we should regard her as highly as we should, all the while considering her mother to us.. I am sure many on this board are willing to listen.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I do not feel that is the same in comparison. You are devoted to your spouse in the terms that you should never leave them, you will stand by them, you will be married until the day you die. You can be devoted to church with the meaning that you will serve them, minister to others, and love Christ's body within that church that you were led to join. You can be devoted to your country by serving the people whether that be through community service, the armed services, etc. If it is the same with Mary, please show me where.

I have devotion to Jesus Christ b/c none other deserves it. If there were no Mary, would Jesus still not be able to perform what he intended? Through God, all things are possible. If God wanted it, Jesus could have appeared out of thin air. with that being said, as I stated in another post, Mary certainly was blessed b/c she was able to fill the duty as a human body to carry the Son of God. Joseph also raised Jesus, too, as an earthly father. There are several people that played critical roles in the life and death of Jesus Christ making it possible for Him to save us.

(1)How is one "devoted" to Mary is the question, and
(2)What all does that entail?

Once that is defined with biblical proof, I am all ears. Thank you for anyone who will provide the scripture that we are to pray to her, where it is stated she (along with other saints) is an intercessor between us and God, and why we should regard her as highly as we should, all the while considering her mother to us.. I am sure many on this board are willing to listen.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't know if I'm allowed to answer your questions here, but here goes:

Indeed, Jesus could have just appeared out of thin air. God could do whatever He wanted. But He chose Mary to be the vessel through which He came to us. Mary was the gate through which the Author of our salvation passed from heaven to earth. When God appeared to Moses in the form of the burning bush, when Moses drew near, God told him to take his shoes off because the ground was holy. If it was holy where God resided for a few moments, imagine where God resided for 9 months.

As for Joseph, you're right! Joseph was a very holy man and we honor him as the man chosen to raise Jesus from childhood. What a great man indeed. Many people have devotions to St. Joseph as well.

Devotion can take many forms. I have a devotion to St. Polycarp, a 2nd century Christian who was martyred in Rome. His life serves as a role model for me because he showed love to the soldiers who were coming to murder him. He set food out on the table for them and asked only that they allow him to pray before they took him away and he faced down death without blinking. A true follower of our Lord. I admire him greatly. Once I complete my prayers to God, I sometimes ask St. Polycarp to pray for me (I know you disagree with that practice. I'm not here to debate it. Just telling you what I mean).

As for no one coming to the Father but by Jesus....of course. I wouldn't dare say otherwise. Mary didn't save us. Jesus did. Mary was the instrument that God used to bring our Savior from Heaven to us. Without God, the ark of the covenant is just a box, but since it was God's throne on earth, it is holy. Since Mary was God's throne for 9 months, she is holy. She carried almighty God in her womb.

I may have overstepped my bounds already, so I'll stop there, but please come and ask about praying to the saints in OBOB where we can give you the full scoop. Peace!

 

[BT]

Devotion does not imply worship. I am devoted to my family and friends, to my Church. I don't worship any of these. If you are married, you are devoted to your spouse. If you're a patriot, you're devoted to your nation.

No, devotion does not necessarily imply worship, but what you'll find in some respects is that devotion is actually worship - it's just called by a different name. I've heard the argument before that "what's worship to you, isn't worship to me" and frankly I think that's bad logic because "what's a door to you, isn't a door to me" (in noun form and not metaphor) has no weight as an argument. What you need to decide is whether you are devoted or worshipping and if you are worshipping then you need to stop and repent, because worshipping is very very clearly defined Biblically so it's not too hard to figure out...

That's my advice...

 

[Ginny]

Thank you for anyone who will provide the scripture that we are to pray to her, where it is stated she (along with other saints) is an intercessor between us and God, and why we should regard her as highly as we should, all the while considering her mother to us.. I am sure many on this board are willing to listen.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I may have overstepped my bounds already, so I'll stop there, but please come and ask about praying to the saints in OBOB where we can give you the full scoop. Peace!

If a Baptist mod gives me permission to go further, I will, but I've received unofficial warnings before for trying to explain Catholic doctrine here, so for now, I invite you to please ask this in OBOB and we'll be happy to offer all that we have to help you understand our beliefs.

 

[Terri]

If a Baptist mod gives me permission to go further, I will, but I've received unofficial warnings before for trying to explain Catholic doctrine here, so for now, I invite you to please ask this in OBOB and we'll be happy to offer all that we have to help you understand our beliefs.

I would appreciate your realizing that this forum is for discussing the Baptist/Anabaptist view on matters. I'm sure EVERYONE is aware that they can go to another forum if they want.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I realize that...which is why I didn't continue. She asked questions, though, so I assume she wants answers to them.

 

[SteveR2021]

I would appreciate your realizing that this forum is for discussing the Baptist/Anabaptist view on matters. I'm sure EVERYONE is aware that they can go to another forum if they want.

I thought it was very gracious of InnerPhyre to invite us to his forum for further discussion. I'm sure we'd do well to learn from the Catholics on Catholic doctrine...isn't that wiser than discussing it amongst ourselves and maybe getting it wrong?

 

[BT]

I thought it was very gracious of InnerPhyre to invite us to his forum for further discussion. I'm sure we'd do well to learn from the Catholics on Catholic doctrine...isn't that wiser than discussing it amongst ourselves and maybe getting it wrong?

Yes it is wise but I'll advise you caution. You can not debate their doctrine in there any more than they can debate us in here. It matters not that you've been invited. One person's invitation does not give your freedom to debate in OBOB. By all means feel free to go over for further discussion but realize that more than InnerPhyre will be there and you will not be permitted to debate/defend your beliefs. OBOB only gives them the freedom/ability to give their beliefs without being reported. There will be things that you will disagree with, feel free, just don't voice them in a debative manner.