Topless Danes

[Nadiine]

Im curious as to why so many non believers think they can debate christian philiosiphy and ethics for a christian when they are not one?

I'm more curious about those who are posting w/ Christian symbols

 

[Nadiine]

Archivist you are under the impression that non believers are qualified to state what is and isnt ethical within christianity when they arent members of the church?

you do have a point there

 

[Tissue]

Yes, but by then you will have grown up, and will act so much like us that it would frighten you if you could see it now, or else you will be one of those pathetic old men who still try to act like teenagers for their whole lives.

Maybe if I got in a horrible, horrible accident and my brain was fried.

For example, you are a Republican. I am not. This is not something likely to change as I get older. Your view is not born out of some special touch of maturity, but out of your positioning amongst society.

 

[Angel4Truth]

wow
Tissue - do you have a crystal ball at 19 because when i was 19 i sure didnt know everything about everything and i still dont at the age i am now especially enough to tell other people why they think the way they do ...

 

[Tissue]

So 2 things I'd point out here -
1) I think women should predominantly be in this field just as a precaution.
2) God can and does GIFT doctors to be able to perform their fields of service. This is a gift of God.

That makes things a lot easier. By positing a gift from God for male gynecologists (something entirely without basis in Scripture), you've clearly made your position the one burdened with self-proof.

Either you must make a rational argument for this (unless there's something in Scripture about male gynecology that I've never heard of), or you discard it, or you discard your system. Or you ignore me.

 

[Nadiine]

That makes things a lot easier. By positing a gift from God for male gynecologists (something entirely without basis in Scripture), you've clearly made your position the one burdened with self-proof.

Either you must make a rational argument for this (unless there's something in Scripture about male gynecology that I've never heard of), or you discard it, or you discard your system. Or you ignore me.

I did make a rational argument, you seem to be expecting that I have to answer it another way.

God doesn't GIFT men to be celibate? He most certainly does. God gives us the gifts we have to attain our wealth/incomes.
God absolutely can gift a Dr. to be able not to have sexual stimulation as a gynocologist when they see the female biologically and medically not sexually.

Just like one person can handle seeing and helping people who are in horrible accidents, and another faints when they see the slightest amount of blood.
Same gifting.

And as I clarified at the bottom which you might have missed, IF a male Dr. cannot separate his sexual arousal from medical/biological perspectives, he needs to either get into a new field of medicine or get professional help to deal with it.

What did you expect me to say to appease you?

 

[Tissue]

wow
Tissue - do you have a crystal ball at 19 because when i was 19 i sure didnt know everything about everything and i still dont at the age i am now especially enough to tell other people why they think the way they do ...

I don't know everything about everything, but I do know a lot about some things. Most things are just simple logic.

For example, for a man who is 46, a Republican, and a Christian who tells me that I will be just like him when I get older, there is another man who is 46, a Democrat, and a Christian, who would argue the same thing. They cannot both be right, and neither of them can possibly give me a convincing reason why they would be right and not the other. After all, the human psyche is far more complex than many give credit for; society does a fine job of smashing us all into general replicas of what a person of our values is supposed to look like, but we still have a will, and a means with which to reject such replication.

It's somewhat likely that there really is no "self" behind all of this societal influence, and that the self constructed in response to society would merely be a mirror image of it, a "societal rebellion", which would still be a mark of society. Yet, that this option is open, and that the issue is not polarized (that is, I could accept any position in between the two poles of complete societal harmony and total societal rebellion), there exists a spectrum of how a human being will turn out.

And that's simply society. There are a slew of other factors. For example, the fact that my parents are divorced, or that I am a Philosophy major, or that I enjoy movies such as Titanic over Braveheart, or any other number of things that makes me an "individual", which could differ with elements of another person's psyche. Surely this would have some impact as well.

It's not that I am rebellious against age simply for the sake of rebellion. I do recognize, however, that we are all of us human. Wisdom can be found in the 4-year-old (I fondly remember one who told me "Skip the icing, go for the cake"), or a 104-year-old. Experience is valuable, but we are all isolated from one another, and it can be all too easy to overestimate the value or implications of one's experience.

 

[Tissue]

God doesn't GIFT men to be celibate? He most certainly does. God gives us the gifts we have to attain our wealth/incomes.
God absolutely can gift a Dr. to be able not to have sexual stimulation as a gynocologist when they see the female biologically and medically not sexually.

Oh, of course he's capable of gifting men to be celibate. He's also capable of maintaining every instance of cause-and-effect in the world, so that the striking of one billiard ball against another actually has no inherent physical law within itself except what is actively influenced by God. Yet, we still think that two billiard balls striking one another don't have a thing to do with God's active influence (at least, most wouldn't travel down that particular route).

In other words, operating from your assumptions, yes. God would gift a male gynecologist to be celibate. But from my assumptions, or others in this discussion, it would not be the case.

In other words, we're managing, once again, to talk past one another.

EDIT: Another example to think about: I was constantly told in church that my piano-playing ability was a gift from God. This is not at all true; my piano-playing ability was due to my constant practice, my personal focus on the material, and my willingness to step out into the public with it every so often. Did God provide me with the potential for this? Sure. He also provided me with the potential to murder, but we don't call that a gift of God. Free will is a gift of God. Not piano-playing ability. I should be thankful for my natural disposition toward certain things, I should be thankful for this life He has provided, I should be thankful that He chose me. But He didn't strike me with the ability to play the piano.

 

[Tissue]

I'm not operating from any specific quote here, but just a notion on whether or not we follow culture or God:

This is not a theocracy. This is not a Christian nation. This is not the Kingdom of Heaven. We might have laws in place that resemble the Ten Commandments, but then, moral codes of this nature could easily have been generated by the light of pure reason (in fact, many philosophers have examined this particular idea). We follow Christ, but we also live in a human society.

Scripture said to stone adulteresses. I'm going to guess you don't do this.

 

[karisma]

I don't really one should be characterized simply by their age.

Older people can easily scoff younger people as being immature, ignorant, or without any life experience. Younger people can easily call older people senile, unchanging, or stuck in their ways. Age does not necessarily bring with it wisdom or maturity; I've met some 20-somethings with more wisdom, maturity, and life experience than some 50 and 60 year old I know.

IMO, no one should be condescending toward others because of their age.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Tissue there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Wisdom does come with age even if that is a foreign concept to you. Whether or not you like it also - you wont understand that concept untill you get older.

 

[Nadiine]

I don't really one should be characterized simply by their age.

Older people can easily scoff younger people as being immature, ignorant, or without any life experience. Younger people can easily call older people senile, unchanging, or stuck in their ways. Age does not necessarily bring with it wisdom or maturity; I've met some 20-somethings with more wisdom, maturity, and life experience than some 50 and 60 year old I know.

IMO, no one should be condescending toward others because of their age.

On that I would agree - to a large degree lol

However, I have seen posts by young people who did think they were "brilliant" when they just weren't, but you can never tell them that
(no doubt I was one of them at some point) heh

 

[Angel4Truth]

karisma most of the condecsention in this thread came from the younger sect if you would care to read back through the thread in fact it was the 19 year old who even introduced the topic of age by calling another member old.

 

[Nadiine]

karisma most of the condecsention in this thread came from the younger sect if you would care to read back through the thread in fact it was the 19 year old who even introduced the topic of age by calling another member old.

I missed that, thanks for the info

 

[Tissue]

Tissue there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Wisdom does come with age even if that is a foreign concept to you. Whether or not you like it also - you wont understand that concept untill you get older.

This is exactly the sort of condescension she is referring to.

What is meant by wisdom? Not some pat, Hallmark card definition, but a true, reasonable definition that fits into a comprehensible system of thought?

How is wisdom generated; through life up and against society, or in relationship with other people?

What are the particular values of this 'wisdom'?

It seems to me that wisdom, as most use the term, is simply the proper application, understanding, and valuation of one's experience/knowledge (using Socrates as a vague model). If this is the case, then I can immediately think of some examples of wise, older people, both in my church, and at my college, whom I highly respect and admire. I can also think of some older people who think they have this wisdom and do not.

If we are operating off wisdom as defined in Proverbs, then we're all on an equal playing field; after all, I only need to act exactly as Solomon says, and then I would be perfectly wise with respect to Scripture; certainly even a four-year-old could do this.

EDIT: I've long toyed with the idea of removing my age from my profile, so that others would not be so quick to judge who I am. After all, without it, perhaps some would think me some disgruntled old fogey who knows quite a lot about a little bit, instead of some rash 19-year-old who can't keep his mouth shut and respect his elders (as all old people are wiser than the young). Obviously it's a bit late now, but there are definitely merits.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Tissue - you brought up age and imo by far have made the most condescending posts.

 

[Nadiine]

This is exactly the sort of condescension she is referring to.

What is meant by wisdom? Not some pat, Hallmark card definition, but a true, reasonable definition that fits into a comprehensible system of thought?

How is wisdom generated; through life up and against society, or in relationship with other people?

What are the particular values of this 'wisdom'?

It seems to me that wisdom, as most use the term, is simply the proper application, understanding, and valuation of one's experience/knowledge (using Socrates as a vague model). If this is the case, then I can immediately think of some examples of wise, older people, both in my church, and at my college, whom I highly respect and admire. I can also think of some older people who think they have this wisdom and do not.

If we are operating off wisdom as defined in Proverbs, then we're all on an equal playing field; after all, I only need to act exactly as Solomon says, and then I would be perfectly wise with respect to Scripture; certainly even a four-year-old could do this.

EDIT: I've long toyed with the idea of removing my age from my profile, so that others would not be so quick to judge who I am. After all, without it, perhaps some would think me some disgruntled old fogey who knows quite a lot about a little bit, instead of some rash 19-year-old who can't keep his mouth shut and respect his elders (as all old people are wiser than the young). Obviously it's a bit late now, but there are definitely merits.

Actually Angel is correct - wisdom does come with age - why do you think a President has to be at a certain age to even run for office?

It's well known. I have alot more of it my age than I did when I was 20... to the point where I could kick myself in the ways I thought and lived for so many years.

However, a believer is encouraged to call upon the Lord to instill wisdom in them.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Thats also the reason Jesus started ministry at age 30 and why rabbi's had to be 30 to minister and why the bible says wisdom comes with age as well.

Nothing truer than Gods word.

 

[catlover]

It isn't JUST American lust.... but you're free to drink any koolaide.

I'd add once AGAIN that Paul taught MODESTY in apparel - not immodesty, not 1/2 nudity or whole nudity.
At the time Paul wrote his epistles, WAS TOPLESSNESS COMMON IN ISRAELI CULTURE? NO it was not. So obviously he is not including topless females in his guideline for dress and "proprietal" appearance

no it was not. It came centuries LATER.

I don't care what was "modest" or done as custom 2000 years ago.

You are free to enjoy your Puritanical values which aren't really based on The Bible but on culture.

All I see are people who are afraid of their bodies and other people's bodies.

 

[Nadiine]

Thats also the reason Jesus started ministry at age 30 and why rabbi's had to be 30 to minister and why the bible says wisdom comes with age as well.

Nothing truer than Gods word.

the more I see, and the longer God gives me life... the more I see that statement is the absolute truth.