Tongues, a different view.

[Saint Steven]

The New Birth produces love for God in the heart. The Lord said he would circumcise their hearts to love Him. So this is not foreign to the Old Covenant or earlier times. Abraham, Able, Job and all listed in Hebrews 11 as being faithful loved God and because they were born again.

And so were the devout Jews. They believed or else they would not have asked instructions from Peter on what to do. They were already saved, but were leaving the Old Covenant and entering the New in Acts 2:38. Jesus says "whoever believes is saved".

No, I don't believe they were saved.
If so, why were they being evangelized? Why not leave them as "saved".

Acts 2:40-41
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them,
“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized,
and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

 

[Dave L]

No, I don't believe they were saved.
If so, why were they being evangelized? Why not leave them as "saved".

Acts 2:40-41
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them,
“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized,
and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

They believed or they would not have asked instructions. Jesus says whoever believes will be saved. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

No, I don't believe they were saved.
If so, why were they being evangelized? Why not leave them as "saved".

Acts 2:40-41
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them,
“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized,
and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Peter told them to follow his orders. Only believers would do this.

 

[Saint Steven]

I don't recall any cessationists who do not believe in miracles and healing. They only say the completed NT replaces Tongues and prophecy from which much of it was written. They think if tongues and prophecy continues, scripture is still a work in process and will not be completed until the end of the world. Like I say, I can see it both ways but think we should not let it divide the body of Christ.

Right, cessationists believe in the miracles and healing of God. But not that the church should operate in the miracle gifts. They will pray to God for the healing of a sick person. But they will not take authority over the sickness, or cast out a demon if needed. Nor would they pray in the Spirit over someone. (tongues) However, they seem to readily accept the testimony of someone who says the Lord spoke to them about something. Which doesn't fit their Cessationist doctrine. No miracle gifts, like prophecy. (foretelling)

 

[Saint Steven]

Peter told them to follow his orders. Only believers would do this.

But aren't you claiming they were believers PRIOR to that?
Why does a believer need to become saved?

 

[Dave L]

But aren't you claiming they were believers PRIOR to that?
Why does a believer need to become saved?

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life (is born again). This is unconditional (grace). But a changed lifestyle and hunger for righteousness are attributes of the New Birth. Followed by baptism and a life of holiness.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Paul does not distinguish between tongues the way you do. He simply says all do not have the gift.

Only the Apostles were baptized in the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Here's why:

“In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty people) and said,” (Acts 1:15)

“Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.” (Acts 2:1)

*They were the Apostles in the preceding verse.



“But Peter stood up with the eleven, raised his voice, and addressed them: “You men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, know this and listen carefully to what I say. In spite of what you think, these men are not drunk, for it is only nine o’clock in the morning.” (Acts 2:14–15)

You are reading out of context. The context goes back to Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), not just Acts 1:26 where you began. There were 120 altogether who were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Of those 120, were the apostles.

 

[Dave L]

You are reading out of context. The context goes back to Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), not just Acts 1:26 where you began. There were 120 altogether who were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Of those 120, were the apostles.

Notice the huge amount of time between the gathering of the 120 and when the Day of Pentecost arrived. Both events were far apart. Not on the same day.

 

[1stcenturylady]

@Saint Steven and @Dave L

On the Day of Pentecost the devout Jews belonged to God, and because their hearts were open to God, they were ripe for receiving their Messiah. It IS a work of the Spirit, as Dave L said, but they were not saved yet as Steven said. They were "being saved." Acts 2:47 And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. This is why the Jews were given the gift of interpretation of tongues. They already belonged to God and had accepted the prophecy of their Messiah; and now that prophecy was being shown to them as reality.

As for "faith is a fruit of the Spirit," it is a gift, not a fruit. But, the fruit does becomes larger with faith.

Have you ever wondered about the specific number of 3000 Jews being redeemed? It was a replacement of the 3000 Jews killed because of their worshiping the golden calf in Exodus 32:28.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Notice the huge amount of time between the gathering of the 120 and when the Day of Pentecost arrived. Both events were far apart. Not on the same day.

Context, context, context.

 

[Dave L]

Context, context, context.

"When the Day of Pentecost was come" isn't the same day the 120 met on.

“But Peter stood up with the eleven, raised his voice, and addressed them: “You men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, know this and listen carefully to what I say.” (Acts 2:14)

 

[Dave L]

@Saint Steven and @Dave L

On the Day of Pentecost the devout Jews belonged to God, and because their hearts were open to God, they were ripe for receiving their Messiah. It IS a work of the Spirit, as Dave L said, but they were not saved yet as Steven said. They were "being saved." Acts 2:47 And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. This is why the Jews were given the gift of interpretation of tongues. They already belonged to God and had accepted the prophecy of their Messiah; and now that prophecy was being shown to them as reality.

As for "faith is a fruit of the Spirit," it is a gift, not a fruit. But, the fruit does becomes larger with faith.

Have you ever wondered about the specific number of 3000 Jews being redeemed? It was a replacement of the 3000 Jews killed because of their worshiping the golden calf in Exodus 32:28.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The devout Jews believed asking Peter what they should do. Had they not believed, they would have walked away. Jesus says Whoever believes has eternal life.

 

[1stcenturylady]

"When the Day of Pentecost was come" isn't the same day the 120 met on.

“But Peter stood up with the eleven, raised his voice, and addressed them: “You men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, know this and listen carefully to what I say.” (Acts 2:14)

That is not saying that ONLY the eleven were present. What you are implying which is ludicrous is that no one else was filled with the Spirit, only the twelve.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. The devout Jews believed asking Peter what they should do. Had they not believed, they would have walked away. Jesus says Whoever believes has eternal life.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Faithfulness, is not saving faith.

Faith is a gift.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Romans 12:3...as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

 

[Dave L]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Faithfulness, is not saving faith.

Faith is a gift.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Romans 12:3...as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2)

 

[Dave L]

That is not saying that ONLY the eleven were present. What you are implying which is ludicrous is that no one else was filled with the Spirit, only the twelve.

"they" in Acts 2:1 is the pronoun for "apostles" in Acts 1:26, the preceding verse. So the Apostles were present on the Day of Pentecost. So, we know from scripture the Apostles were there. It does not mention any others. And we know it was all 12 because Peter stood with the 11 to explain the outpouring. You cannot honestly go beyond this because the Day of Pentecost was not the same day the 120 were said to be present.

 

[1stcenturylady]

"they" in Acts 2:1 is the pronoun for "apostles" in Acts 1:26, the preceding verse. So the Apostles were present on the Day of Pentecost. So, we know from scripture the Apostles were there. It does not mention any others. And we know it was all 12 because Peter stood with the 11 to explain the outpouring. You cannot honestly go beyond this because the Day of Pentecost was not the same day the 120 were said to be present.

That may be true, so what was the point of this discussion? I forget.

 

[1stcenturylady]

“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2)

And your point? Whether faith is a fruit or a gift?

 

[Dave L]

And your point? Whether faith is a fruit or a gift?

It is both. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” (Ephesians 2:8)

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:10)

 

[Dave L]

That may be true, so what was the point of this discussion? I forget.

We began talking about the devout Jews who were born again as seen in their faith.