Tom Homan -- prepare for 'out of control border' if Dem wins 2020

[civilwarbuff]

No one particularly wants to dispute the numbers in your citation. I think we all know that they are made up, and nobody really expected anything else.
What is being disputed is your assertion that all of the spending is "additional spending." In particular with health care, the expenditure would not be an addition to what we are paying now, it would be instead of what we are paying now.

So, no one on the left has made any estimates as to the cost of the dems WH contenders proposals?......that should speak volumes in that the cost is indefensible.....

 

[Belk]

So it is not reasonable for a person to support their opinion with actual citations?....wow, a new standard.....

Not what was claimed. Would you care to try again or shall I explain it a third time?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Inside European Union, there are open borders between countries and no country was destroyed, all prosper more.

Also, majority of illegals in the USA are people with expired visa, not people walking illegally through borders.

Actually if we keep up with the latest news they are having a lot of trouble over there as explained in the video.
M-Bob

 

[Speedwell]

So, no one on the left has made any estimates as to the cost of the dems WH contenders proposals?......that should speak volumes in that the cost is indefensible.....

Of course we have estimates. I believe I read that Bernie's plan would cost 34 trillion over ten years, but estimates vary, the other contenders plans vary and there can be nothing like a hard figure until there is a specific proposal before Congress. Nevertheless, that is beside the point. The point is that the 34 trillion (or whatever it winds up being) will not be spent in addition to what we are paying for healthcare now.

 

[solid_core]

Actually if we keep up with the latest news they are having a lot of trouble over there as explained in the video.
M-Bob

I meant borders between countries in the EU. The video is about Spain getting immigrants coming on boats from Africa.

 

[hedrick]

The Democratic candidates are endorsing open borders now.

Democrats double down on open borders

That article is misleading in several ways:

* None of the candidates proposes open borders.
* The opening quote is from Warren. She has the most radical of the proposals, but it still isn't open borders.

What Warren said is this: "We need to expand legal immigration. We need to create a path for citizenship, not just for Dreamers but for grandmas and for people who have been working here in the farms and for students who have overstayed their visas..."

That is too brief to be sure just what she meant. Which students and what is the process? However she does have a detailed proposal here: A Fair and Welcoming Immigration System | Elizabeth Warren. It goes further than others, but still isn't open borders. I'm not going to endorse her plan. There are things in it that make sense, but the plan as a whole would likely cause trouble.

Biden, of course, is the front runner. Here's his plan: Joe Biden Calls for Immigration Overhaul, Acknowledging ‘Pain’ From Deportations.
If you look at the whole article, this is close to a return to Obama, who in fact deported more people than real progressives liked.

The next two candidates after Biden are Warren and Sanders. I've commented on Warren. Here's Sanders' plan: A Welcoming and Safe America for All. It's similar to Warren's, which is more radical than I think most voters (including Democrats) will be comfortable with, but not open borders.

Whether any of this will affect the number of undocumented aliens is unclear. Things that would likely help: mandate everify, increase the number of immigration judges (and make them real judges).

 

[wing2000]

The Democratic candidates are endorsing open borders now.

Democrats double down on open borders

How do you define "open borders?"

 

[Mountainmanbob]

I meant borders between countries in the EU. The video is about Spain getting immigrants coming on boats from Africa.

Are you saying that you support open borders?

 

[Speedwell]

Are you saying that you support open borders?

Nobody supports open borders.

 

[hedrick]

The current estimate is about 11 million undocumented aliens. It is very unlikely that we will deport them all, or even most. Prioritizing serious criminals surely makes sense. So does a plan for regularizing them, though a lot of people would like to see that combined with better control of the border.

I don't think a wall is going to fix the border. There are higher tech solutions, but they would have to be coupled with sufficient staff to follow up on suspicious incidents. I don't see either side proposing something that would realistically help the border. If we're not going to control the number coming in, and we're not going to hire enough ICE agents to deport 11 million people, we're going to have to live with the problem, and find the best way to do that.

Both Obama and Trump have tried removal without legal process. That would definitely increase the rate of deportation, but at the cost of deporting people who shouldn't be, including people who might qualify for asylum or other programs, and citizens. (Yes, ICE arrests citizens. One estimate is about 1% of deportations. I'm sure you've all read news stories. See this article for an attempt to estimate the number: U.S. Citizens Targeted by ICE: U.S. Citizens Targeted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Texas. It can be hard to get things like a birth certificate when you're in prison. Hopefully they are eventually found before deportation, but that's not always the case.)

 

[civilwarbuff]

Actually if we keep up with the latest news they are having a lot of trouble over there as explained in the video.
M-Bob

Yep, Turkey is threatening to unleash an immigration storm on Europe.....and they are nervous....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Not what was claimed. Would you care to try again or shall I explain it a third time?

So you try to spin it.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Of course we have estimates.

Then post them...

The point is that the 34 trillion (or whatever it winds up being) will not be spent in addition to what we are paying for healthcare now.

And you know that because........Bernie says so?

 

[Ana the Ist]

That article is misleading in several ways:

* None of the candidates proposes open borders.
* The opening quote is from Warren. She has the most radical of the proposals, but it still isn't open borders.

What Warren said is this: "We need to expand legal immigration. We need to create a path for citizenship, not just for Dreamers but for grandmas and for people who have been working here in the farms and for students who have overstayed their visas..."

That is too brief to be sure just what she meant. Which students and what is the process?

Which students? It's pretty clear....the ones who overstay their visas.

If you do away with immigration enforcement....that is open borders.

Open border - Wikipedia

An open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with few or no restrictions on movement, that is lacking substantive border control. A border may be an open border due to intentional legislation allowing free movement of people across the border (de jure), or a border may be an open border due to a lack of legal controls, a lack of adequate enforcement or adequate supervision of the border.

So to be clear...an open border can be one with few restrictions or lack of law enforcement. If I were to describe most Democratic candidates' positions....it would involve loosening restrictions and reducing enforcement.

So yes...open borders is a fair and accurate description of many Democratic candidates' positions.

 

[wing2000]

Which students? It's pretty clear....the ones who overstay their visas.

If you do away with immigration enforcement....that is open borders.

Open border - Wikipedia

An open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with few or no restrictions on movement, that is lacking substantive border control. A border may be an open border due to intentional legislation allowing free movement of people across the border (de jure), or a border may be an open border due to a lack of legal controls, a lack of adequate enforcement or adequate supervision of the border.

So to be clear...an open border can be one with few restrictions or lack of law enforcement. If I were to describe most Democratic candidates' positions....it would involve loosening restrictions and reducing enforcement.

So yes...open borders is a fair and accurate description of many Democratic candidates' positions.

An open border would be akin to the EU countries...where people and goods move freely between countries.

Can you cite specifically, in context, any Democratic candidates who are proposing an open border?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Which students? It's pretty clear....the ones who overstay their visas.

If you do away with immigration enforcement....that is open borders.

Open border - Wikipedia

An open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with few or no restrictions on movement, that is lacking substantive border control. A border may be an open border due to intentional legislation allowing free movement of people across the border (de jure), or a border may be an open border due to a lack of legal controls, a lack of adequate enforcement or adequate supervision of the border.

So to be clear...an open border can be one with few restrictions or lack of law enforcement. If I were to describe most Democratic candidates' positions....it would involve loosening restrictions and reducing enforcement.

So yes...open borders is a fair and accurate description of many Democratic candidates' positions.

Very good points.....

 

[hedrick]

Which students? It's pretty clear....the ones who overstay their visas.

She didn't say all students, and it was in the context of a question about DACA, which is about people who have been here for years. I wish she had been clearer, but she had recently posted a detailed plan. It doesn't suggest that we allow all students to stay forever. I think your understanding is unjustified.

 

[Ana the Ist]

An open border would be akin to the EU countries...where people and goods move freely between countries.

I'm not sure if you understand what the EU is...

But more importantly, I just pulled a common definition of open borders....and both Warren and Sanders fit that definition.

Look at Warren's plan...she intends to stop "detention of immigrants who pose no risk to national security". That's almost 100% of illegal immigrants. It's not as if we have access to their criminal records where they're from. She's proposing legal pathways to citizenship for basically anyone who gets in....and if we aren't detaining anyone, that's everyone.

She supports open borders.

 

[civilwarbuff]

.

 

[wing2000]

......she intends to stop "detention of immigrants who pose no risk to national security".

Are you referring to this? Or if not, provide a citation.
Decriminalize migration and refocus enforcement on serious criminal activity.