Tom Homan -- prepare for 'out of control border' if Dem wins 2020

[Mountainmanbob]

ILook at Warren's plan...she intends to stop "detention of immigrants who pose no risk to national security". That's almost 100% of illegal immigrants. It's not as if we have access to their criminal records where they're from. She's proposing legal pathways to citizenship for basically anyone who gets in....and if we aren't detaining anyone, that's everyone.

She supports open borders.

Hope that never flies.

M-Bob

 

[hedrick]

I'm not sure if you understand what the EU is...

But more importantly, I just pulled a common definition of open borders....and both Warren and Sanders fit that definition.

Look at Warren's plan...she intends to stop "detention of immigrants who pose no risk to national security". That's almost 100% of illegal immigrants. It's not as if we have access to their criminal records where they're from. She's proposing legal pathways to citizenship for basically anyone who gets in....and if we aren't detaining anyone, that's everyone.

She supports open borders.

That's detention of people who are in the country. That was the policy under Obama, who had far from open borders, and fairly high rates of deportation. We should be looking at what the most useful actions would be, not trying to come up with ways of making candidates seem more extreme than they are.

 

[Belk]

So you try to spin it.....

No, I try to explain our objection. It is readily apparent you do not seem to understand it for some reason.

 

[Ana the Ist]

She didn't say all students, and it was in the context of a question about DACA, which is about people who have been here for years. I wish she had been clearer, but she had recently posted a detailed plan. It doesn't suggest that we allow all students to stay forever. I think your understanding is unjustified.

From Warren's immigration plan...that you linked....

As president, I will immediately issue guidance to end criminal prosecutions for simple administrative immigration violations; end Operation Streamline, which subjects migrants to mass prosecutions; and refocus our limited resources on actual criminals and real threats to the United States. I will also issue prosecutorial guidance to prioritize immigration cases with security concerns, and make sure government attorneys are properly exercising their discretion for individuals who pose no public safety risk.

It's not exactly hard to decipher this....she doesn't want to prosecute illegals. She also wants to make schools, courts, and hospitals safe havens for illegals. That means even those convicted of crimes cannot be apprehended by immigration in court.

She effectively intends to end the ability of ICE to round up illegals and deport them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's detention of people who are in the country.

What are you talking about? Once you cross the border....you're in the country lol.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Are you referring to this? Or if not, provide a citation.
Decriminalize migration and refocus enforcement on serious criminal activity.

Yeah that and a bunch of other points on her plan.

 

[Speedwell]

She effectively intends to end the ability of ICE to round up illegals and deport them.

They haven't shown much ability so far. It wouldn't take much to end it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

They haven't shown much ability so far. It wouldn't take much to end it.

Lol sure...it's got nothing to do with widespread attempts to block deportations.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

It's not exactly hard to decipher this....she doesn't want to prosecute illegals. She also wants to make schools, courts, and hospitals safe havens for illegals. That means even those convicted of crimes cannot be apprehended by immigration in court.

She effectively intends to end the ability of ICE to round up illegals and deport them.

Please don't put her in the WH.
Would be a terrible mistake.
M-Bob

 

[wing2000]

From Warren's immigration plan...that you linked....

As president, I will immediately issue guidance to end criminal prosecutions for simple administrative immigration violations; end Operation Streamline, which subjects migrants to mass prosecutions; and refocus our limited resources on actual criminals and real threats to the United States. I will also issue prosecutorial guidance to prioritize immigration cases with security concerns, and make sure government attorneys are properly exercising their discretion for individuals who pose no public safety risk.

It's not exactly hard to decipher this....she doesn't want to prosecute illegals. She also wants to make schools, courts, and hospitals safe havens for illegals. That means even those convicted of crimes cannot be apprehended by immigration in court.

She effectively intends to end the ability of ICE to round up illegals and deport them.

In other words, Warren would reinstate the policies in place under President Obama.....and plenty of illegal immigrants were deported during the Obama years. Focusing limited resources on those illegal immigrants who pose the greatest threat is only logical.

...and btw, that policy is not "open borders."

 

[Ana the Ist]

In other words, Warren would reinstate the policies in place under President Obama.....

Nope.

Operation Streamline - Wikipedia

 

[hedrick]

Nope.

Operation Streamline - Wikipedia

From what I can tell, Obama had two separate things going on: a deportation program focused on criminals, and Operation Streamline. I believe Operation Streamline was supposed to be focused on border crossing, while the priority on criminals was focused on people who had been in the country for a while. This separation was not complete, of course. Streamline was started under Bush but greatly expanded under Obama.

Warren seems to have promised to reinstate the focus on criminals for deportation and stopping Streamline. Stopping Streamline doesn't mean stopping enforcement of the border, but it would depend upon what replaces it.

In a quick search, here was the best review of results I found: https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2015/OIG_15-95_May15.pdf. It's by the DHS Inspector General. It found that when a proper analysis was done, Operation Streamline somewhat reduced the rate at which people reentered the US compared to previous enforcement. But the fairly minor difference doesn't seem to me to justify the costs, both in money and in violations of due process.

 

[hedrick]

I think border enforcement and deportation of people who have been in the country is always going to be somewhat separate. The hope is to prevent all illegal border crossing. It doesn't appear to be practical to deport all undocumented aliens currently in the country, hence prioritization is needed.

 

[KCfromNC]

Well, please show the numbers and not just your opinion.

I did mention several mistaken numbers in your source. For some reason, instead of explaining how those numbers are correct, you want to redirect the discussion to being about me. Or Clinton. Or seemingly anything other than what I posted.

Nice try @KCfromNC but you got another epic fail with that post.....

This would be a lot more convincing if you'd address the content of my reply rather than just name-calling.

 

[KCfromNC]

That article is misleading in several ways:

* None of the candidates proposes open borders.
* The opening quote is from Warren. She has the most radical of the proposals, but it still isn't open borders.

What Warren said is this: "We need to expand legal immigration. We need to create a path for citizenship, not just for Dreamers but for grandmas and for people who have been working here in the farms and for students who have overstayed their visas..."

FYI, if this is calling for open borders, that means the leader of the GOP is doing the same :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3f01aa-01e3-11e8-8acf-ad2991367d9d_story.html

Trump's support for "dreamers" who have been in the country illegally since they were children represents a significant concession to Democrats and was intended as a compromise to help break the impasse over immigration in Congress, White House aides said Thursday.

The plan offers a citizenship path to more than twice as many dreamers as were enrolled in a deferred action program Trump terminated in September, a move that is likely to engender fierce blowback among some conservatives, especially in the House.​

 

[civilwarbuff]

No, I try to explain our objection. It is readily apparent you do not seem to understand it for some reason.

As was noted: so you try to spin it.....

 

[Belk]

As was noted: so you try to spin it.....

As I corrected you, no I am not trying to spin anything. I'm trying to explain our different point of view. Are you willing to concede that we are disagreeing from a place of good faith? If not there is no point continuing the discussion.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I did mention several mistaken numbers in your source. For some reason, instead of explaining how those numbers are correct, you want to redirect the discussion to being about me. Or Clinton. Or seemingly anything other than what I posted.

Please feel free to point out anything you disagree with but provide your citation to support your position. That is not an unreasonable expectation.

This would be a lot more convincing if you'd address the content of my reply rather than just name-calling.

Didn't call anyone any names and you know that so don't go down that path.....Now, do you have citations to support your claims or not? If not just say it is your opinion and let's move on....

 

[civilwarbuff]

As I corrected you, no I am not trying to spin anything. I'm trying to explain our different point of view. Are you willing to concede that we are disagreeing from a place of good faith? If not there is no point continuing the discussion.

see #118....

 

[KCfromNC]

Please feel free to point out anything you disagree with

Posts 51 (2nd paragraph) and 69.