Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
When did I say that?
What do you know about orthodox Jewish debate? Are you a Jew? If not, then it's none of your business. That's what an Israeli would tell you.
The rubbish you're promulgating is nothing less than anti-semitic bovine excrement. You know nothing of which you write.
How do Orthodox Jews 'see their return' to Israel? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. They make aliyah. That is how they see it. They work, eat, sleep, pay taxes, and vote for their representatives in the Knesset - and then some. Israel is a functioning RENEWED Jewish state. They've got a flag and everything. ARE YOU BLIND? Or perhaps you are so inflamed with false pseudo-Christian dogma (Replacement Theology) that you can't or won't see the working of the hand of God.
I've heard and read about rebuilding the temple for years. Mostly this is a con fostered by evangelical Christian roaming preachers to suck extra donations out of the pockets of gullible believers. These persons are parasites upon the body of Christ and ought not be given any credence at all. I first heard the rebuilding story forty years ago. There still isn't a temple is there? Do you know why? There are major problems with the idea.
First of all if a third temple, referred to prophetically as Ezekiel's temple, is to be constructed it must be built on the exact same location where the first two were built; Solomon's temple & Herod's temple (the one Jesus visited). That location would be the City of David NOT the temple mount.
Consult scripture for validation of the location (instead of your tea leaves or your Christian tabloid rubbish or wherever else you get your poppycock). Take a look at Google maps too. The City of David is NOT within the boundary of the old city - Old Jerusalem. It's next to the Gihon spring, used by ancient priests for washings and cleanings from sacrifices as required by Mosaic Law. There is NO natural water source on the temple mount, but the City of David has such a source in the Gihon spring.
youTube has some excellent documentaries on this subject based upon recent archaeological discoveries. Check it out.
Items for a new temple have been made and warehoused, but are presently considered nothing more than museum piece replicas. All dressed up and nowhere to go. Our problem is inability to decide whether to build the temple at all.
Orthodox Jews are among the most confused of all Jews. They look to the coming of the messiah, but deny evidence that He has already come and the circumstances surrounding His return. (I personally doubt that many of them will accept Jesus the second time either - they are THAT opinionated.)
Orthodox Jews are divided among themselves as to what they really want and do not consider other Jews to be as Jewish as they themselves are (because the line of pharisees continues essentially unchanged from Jesus' day to the Orthodox Jews of today). Hypocrisy and self-pride is their hallmark. Orthodox Jews are so opinionated they won't even debate a gentile and rarely consider a different variety of Jew to be worthy of their insight. Orthodox Jews are divided and confused about many things including but not limited to the third temple (also called Ezekiel's temple).
The matter of Israeli governance is for Israeli's to decide. That includes the construction (or not) of a third temple and where to put it. It includes what Orthodox Jews believe or don't believe or who they want to discuss it with.
It's really none of your business and certainly not for you to judge what the hand of God is doing there.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Unbelieving Jews... if an Orthodox Jew follows the commandments of the one God (out of love) and lives for the day Messiah comes and ushers in a time of peace and restoration... you are seriously calling him an unbeliever? Why? Because he lacks YOUR current understanding? That is a bit prideful, isn't it? You are using YOUR understanding (your CURRENT understanding) as the standard by which you judge others who call on the same God you do?
Prideful? That is the antithesis of what I am here. By being graceful to THEM, and being willing to allow God to draw those who don't look, think, and act like I do.... then I am not being prideful, if anything, I am eating my pride and acknowledging a greater work and perhaps a greater hope for God's grace in the life of others!So, If a Devout Muslim follows the commandments of the one God of Abraham (out of love) and lives for the day Messiah comes and ushers in a time of peace and restoration... you are seriously calling him an unbeliever? Why? Because he lacks YOUR current understanding? That is a bit prideful, isn't it? You are using YOUR understanding (your CURRENT understanding) as the standard by which you judge others who call on the same God of Abraham that you do?
I am talking about the people who use what we call the OT (the Tanach) who love the God of Israel... the same one God we desire. And if God has said He has plans for them, and they are waiting on messiah to come and do what we are waiting on him to come and do... then I will let GOD do His job and I won't judge them.... I will rather stand benevolently toward them should they ever have questions I might be able and blessed to answer.
I am talking about the people... who love the God of Israel... the same one God we desire. And if God has said He has plans for them, and they are waiting on messiah to come and do what we are waiting on him to come and do... then I will let GOD do His job and I won't judge them.... I will rather stand benevolently toward them should they ever have questions I might be able and blessed to answer.
You do realize This also describes Followers of Islam, right?
They Love and worship the God Of Abraham, the same God of Abraham you love and worship, and they are likewise waiting on Messiah to come and do what you are waiting on Him to come and do. Indeed Muslims even go a step further toward unity with Christians than the Jews do, in that Muslims believe JESUS is coming again to do these things...
So whats the difference?
From YALE law - The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
Hamas Charter Article 7
Quoting their satanic murdering pedophile puppet of the dragon, when he said
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Rumor has it among the clerics that Jews are planting Gharkad trees to hide behind. ROFL at their terrorist ideology.
Making any comparison between the Coming of the Messiah of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with the expectation of Islam is blasphemous.
The atheistic Jews live in Tel Aviv.Israel however was and is run by Athiest Jews, the real Israel would be a theocracy and would be most likely closer to messianic Jews or Eastern Orthodox Christians then today’s Jews. Although I don’t deny there are Rabbis in the Israeli government, but the leading members of the Knesset are Athiest Jews.
Doesn't your preferred eschaton likewise call for 2/3 of the worlds Jews to be violently exterminated sometime in our near future?
Maybe it's only ok when your side does it?
Is it simply that you don't want the Muslims to beat your guy to the Job?
Muslims, like many Christians, Believe Jesus was the Israelite Messiah incarnate who will come again and defeat the false messiah in the end days.
That's a fact.
What do you know about orthodox Jewish debate? Are you a Jew? If not, then it's none of your business. That's what an Israeli hasidim would tell you.
The rubbish you're promulgating is nothing less than anti-semitic bovine excrement. You know nothing of which you write.
How do Orthodox Jews 'see their return' to Israel? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. They make aliyah. That is how they see it.
Hasidim, as well as the other citizens of Israel, work, eat, sleep, pay taxes, and vote for their representatives in the Knesset - and then some. Israel is a functioning RENEWED Jewish state. They've got a flag and everything. ARE YOU BLIND? Or perhaps you are so inflamed with false pseudo-Christian dogma (Replacement Theology) that you can't or won't see the working of the hand of God.
I've heard and read about rebuilding the temple for years. Mostly this is a con fostered by evangelical Christian roaming preachers to suck extra donations out of the pockets of gullible believers. These persons are parasites upon the body of Christ and ought not be given any credence at all. I first heard the rebuilding story forty years ago. There still isn't a temple is there? Do you know why? There are major problems with the idea.
First of all if a third temple, referred to prophetically as Ezekiel's temple, is to be constructed it must be built on the exact same location where the first two were built; Solomon's temple & Herod's temple (the one Jesus visited). That location would be the City of David NOT the temple mount.
Unfortunately, there is considerable debate by Israelis as to whether the temple mount is appropriate or not - despite archeological evidence pointing to the City of David. The debate rages on while nothing is actually accomplished.
Muslims claim all of the temple mount as their own sacred ground. In the days of Jesus, the area was used to house several Roman cohorts. Each Roman cohort was about 500 men. Ft. Antonia, also located on the temple mount, is much too small to have housed Roman cohorts as well as their support facilities and animals, yet that is the modern assumption of its function. Look at a map. It's too small. The Romans used the entire temple mount for their purposes. Go there and look. At the base of the walls there are large amounts of ancient relics (garbage tossed over the walls by Roman soldiers.) The temple mount was owned and operated by gentiles, not Jews. It still is.
Consult scripture for validation of the location. Take a look at Google maps too. The City of David is NOT within the boundary of the old city - Old Jerusalem. It's next to the Gihon spring, used by ancient priests for washings and cleanings from sacrifices as required by Mosaic Law. There is NO natural water source on the temple mount, but the City of David has such a source in the Gihon spring.
youTube has some excellent documentaries on this subject based upon recent archaeological discoveries. Check it out.
Items for a new temple have been made and warehoused, but are presently considered nothing more than museum piece replicas. All dressed up and nowhere to go. Our problem is inability to decide whether to build the temple at all.
Orthodox Jews are among the most confused of all Jews. They look to the coming of the messiah, but deny evidence that He has already come and the circumstances surrounding His return. (I personally doubt that many of them will accept Jesus the second time either - they are THAT opinionated.)
Hasidim(*) are divided among themselves as to what they really want and do not consider other Jews to be as Jewish as they themselves are. Hasidim are so opinionated they rarely debate a gentile (they'll just turn around and walk away from you). Hasidim are undecided about many things including but not limited to the third temple - Ezekiel's temple.
The matter of Israeli governance is for Israeli's to decide. That includes the construction (or not) of a third temple and where to put it. It includes what Orthodox Jews believe or don't believe or who they want to discuss it with or not. This is why the gospels repeatedly record their response to Jesus' clever responses to their accusations - they would just turn and walk away from him. They still do when confronted with an argument they can't dispute.
It is wise to watch and listen and consider what God is doing in Israel today.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
- God speaking to Abram as quoted in Genesis 12:3
If you cannot believe scripture, then believe what your eyes see happening in Israel today.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(*) Hasidim or Hasidic Jews are also called Orthodox Jews. They wear long black coats and beards, long sideburns and oversized expensive hats some costing as much as $8,000 each. The line of pharisees described in the gospels did not die out. The Hasidim of today are basically unchanged Talmudic scholars (pharisees) of Jesus' day.
Many believe Jesus was a Karaite Jew because He rejected Talmudic traditions laws and ceremonies supported by the pharisees. The Son of God often argued with them - and never lost a dispute. Jesus quoted believed and lived Mosaic Law (Torah), the prophets and the writings only. He rejected the Talmudic law, ceremony and heresies promulgated by the pharisees/hasidim.
Not just Tel Aviv, I chatted once to one who lived in Jerusalem.The atheistic Jews live in Tel Aviv.
Jews and Christians go FIRST to what we call the bible. We both have commentary (the Talmud, and Christians are not void of their own versions) but the bible is first. The Muslims use the Koran FIRST not the bible... so their weight isn't on "Scripture" it is on, well... their version of a latter day saint. That's the difference.You do realize This also describes Followers of Islam, right?
They Love and worship the God Of Abraham, the same God of Abraham you love and worship, and they are likewise waiting on Messiah to come and do what you are waiting on Him to come and do. Indeed Muslims even go a step further toward unity with Christians than the Jews do, in that Muslims believe JESUS is coming again to do these things...
So whats the difference?
Yes ..I do actually think about what I am saying . And I am well aware that there are many ways to deny Jesus as the Christ just as Israel worshiped God with their mouths but their hearts went after covetousness . " John said , there are many anti-christ . As it is written " For the name of God is blasphemed among the gentiles through you. " There are many false Christ as jesus predicted . Would you be led astray by anyone claiming to be Jesus even of they did miracles ? I did not think so . How about a Muslim doing miracles ? I did not think so . How about a false body of believers who are not following the spirit of truth but another Jesus ? How about if they supported Israel and could produce fire from the sky ? What if they were able to transmit actual images through thin air ? This would be a dark art when scripture was recorded ...miraculous even ..But we call it nuclear weapons and television .1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.
Have you ever once heard a Christian say Jesus isn't the Christ or Jesus isn't the messiah?
Think about what your saying.
Yes ..I do actually think about what I am saying . And I am well aware that there are many ways to deny Jesus as the Christ just as Israel worshiped God with their mouths but their hearts went after covetousness . " John said , there are many anti-christ . As it is written " For the name of God is blasphemed among the gentiles through you. " There are many false Christ as jesus predicted . Would you be led astray by anyone claiming to be Jesus even of they did miracles ? I did not think so . How about a Muslim doing miracles ? I did not think so . How about a false body of believers who are not following the spirit of truth but another Jesus ? How about if they supported Israel and could produce fire from the sky ? What if they were able to transmit actual images through thin air ? This would be a dark art when scripture was recorded ...miraculous even ..But we call it nuclear weapons and television .
Israel continually denied the Father and made alliances with other countries . There are many ways to deny both the Father and the Son. For example ..Cursed is the man who trust in man and makes the flesh the arm of his strength . If I were going to exalt man and deny the savior ...I would deny the saving power of the Crucifixion and the work of God through His perfect sacrifice , Jesus and form a more perfect union ...maybe a government of man that "allows" the existence of God but denies His Son so that we may all get along . And if you deny his Son , then you have neither the Father nor the Son . Look in the constitution or the declaration and find the name of Jesus of Nazareth . ( The framers were mostly deist ....no denying God , just His Son . )
Yes ..I do actually think about what I am saying . And I am well aware that there are many ways to deny Jesus as the Christ just as Israel worshiped God with their mouths but their hearts went after covetousness . " John said , there are many anti-christ . As it is written " For the name of God is blasphemed among the gentiles through you. " There are many false Christ as jesus predicted . Would you be led astray by anyone claiming to be Jesus even of they did miracles ? I did not think so . How about a Muslim doing miracles ? I did not think so . How about a false body of believers who are not following the spirit of truth but another Jesus ? How about if they supported Israel and could produce fire from the sky ? What if they were able to transmit actual images through thin air ? This would be a dark art when scripture was recorded ...miraculous even ..But we call it nuclear weapons and television .
Israel continually denied the Father and made alliances with other countries . There are many ways to deny both the Father and the Son. For example ..Cursed is the man who trust in man and makes the flesh the arm of his strength . If I were going to exalt man and deny the savior ...I would deny the saving power of the Crucifixion and the work of God through His perfect sacrifice , Jesus and form a more perfect union ...maybe a government of man that "allows" the existence of God but denies His Son so that we may all get along . And if you deny his Son , then you have neither the Father nor the Son . Look in the constitution or the declaration and find the name of Jesus of Nazareth . ( The framers were mostly deist ....no denying God , just His Son . )
Jews and Christians go FIRST to what we call the bible. We both have commentary (the Talmud, and Christians are not void of their own versions) but the bible is first.
The Muslims use the Koran FIRST not the bible... so their weight isn't on "Scripture" it is on, well... their version of a latter day saint. That's the difference.
If you want to back me into a corner for allowing God to do what God said he would do... try, but I won't play. And the fact that you know your last post was somewhat offensive and you didn't bother to try and make sure there was no division between brothers... speaks loudly about you.
There are a number of people on this site that just aren't worth taking the time to talk to for a number of different reasons. Not agreeing is NOT one of those reasons... but HOW we disagree is. You're getting close.
I am not even reading your post. I did see as I scrolled down your comment about being here for lurkers, but you're not here for "lurkers," you're here to pat yourself on the back whenever you have a chance. You could have made this right, built a bridge between two people, but no... you double down and continue so off to ePurgatory you go.Name one Jew today who follows the Law of Moses.
Just one will do.
(Remember, to be a Jew in Gods eyes, one MUST follow the Law. If a jew does not follow the law, all of it, He is cut off from among the people and stripped of His inheritance, and considered by God to be a Heathen.)
Think carefully. Name one Jew Today who follows the Law.
I'll give you a hint...None do.
Todays Jews are either Gentile converts or descendants of Gentile converts to the Post Christian, man-made religion of the Babylonian Talmud... they have nothing in common with the pre desolation Hebrew people... they do not share the same religion, they do not have the same politics and they have no verifiable genetic relationship to even one single pre desolation Hebrew person. Not even one. You and I probably have as much if not more Abrahamic DNA that the Most devout, orthodox Jew you can find in all of Israel today.
Do Muslims worship the God Of Abraham or not?
I'm not asking if they Worship him CORRECTLY (I happen to believe they don't worship the God of Abraham correctly and are equally as lost as the Jew who, without Christ, also worships the same God of Abraham INCORRECTLY, and is therefore just as lost as the Muslim (or Hindu, or Buddhist, or Atheist, New Ager, Zoroastrian, Wiccan, etc...).
Since you have not given me the job of deciding what you choose to find offensive and what you don't, I'm not going play that blame game.
If you are offended by anything anyone says, it's on you friend. You alone are in charge of choosing what offends you and what does not. You did not give me the power to make that choice for you. That you would seek hold me responsible for what you personally CHOOSE to find offensive, speaks loudly about you.
You are always free to choose not to respond to me.
But I'm not here to change your mind.. I'm here for the lurkers, the readers who are reading all sides with an open heart... Changing the hearts of the already hardened folks entrenched, heels dug into their chosen paradigm, is a futile exercise. I'm here to give the lurkers a full understanding of my perspective. That folks disagree only helps clarify my position to them, So i eagerly await disagreement regardless of HOW. I'm not in this for "me me me me" and How I feel treated by others here... I'm in it for the edification of the real truth seekers behind the scenes.
Carry on friend.I am not even reading your post. I did see as I scrolled down your comment about being here for lurkers, but you're not here for "lurkers," you're here to pat yourself on the back whenever you have a chance. You could have made this right, built a bridge between two people, but no... you double down and continue so off to ePurgatory you go.
I chatted ONCE to ONE who lived in Jerusalem. Your research and evidence is overwhelming.Not just Tel Aviv, I chatted once to one who lived in Jerusalem.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?