To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[GaryArnold]

I do the various tithes and offerings in the scriptures I shared in post #216, in the NT equivalent.

There is NO NT equivalent for any one of the tithes in the OT. You are making all this up. Or someone else who has made it up has taught you. Not one time in the NT is tithing taught to Christians. Not even one verse.

Anyone can do what you are doing. Justify just about anything you want to do and claim it to be a NT equivalent. The Word says DO NOT ADD TO OR SUBTRACT FROM. You are adding NT equivalents. LOL

 

[GaryArnold]

The blessings of taking 10% of your income to spend in a place where you get refreshed by the Lord is worth it. Many take secular vacations yearly. What's so strange about taking a spiritual vacation yearly to strengthen you and your family?

OT families spent the money on lodging, food, transportation, offerings. It's pretty straight forward.

There's blessings associated with doing as much as you can the way God prescribes it. NT tithing is blessed and it works.

Show me where any OT families spent "the money" (from selling the tithe) on lodging, transportation, and offerings. If they did, they broke God's commandment to spend ALL the money on food and drink.

 

[WordofHisPower]

And no one in the Old Testament tithed from their income. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus, as a carpenter, did not tithe. Peter did not tithe. Paul did not tithe.

You have a real imagination, but what you are doing isn't Biblical. Giving is Biblical. Tithing from one's income is not Biblical. You have fallen into the trap most church goers fall into - that is, believing what your pastor says rather than search the scripture. You go through the scriptures and pluck out every verse you can find on tithing, take them all out of context, and have zero understanding as to what is was all about. I have spent THOUSANDS of hours studying this topic and it takes a lot of work and time to put all the pieces together in order to get the true picture as to what tithing was. Once you understand it, you see it couldn't possibly work today.

Since Numbers 18 tells us that priests don't tithe, and all born-again believers are part of a Royal Priesthood, by saying you tithe, you distance yourself from this Royal Priesthood.

You can make giving 10% (tithe) to the Lord work if you want to. You're trying to make it look like giving 10% to the Lord is done away with. It's not. It predates and postdates the law, as an act of faith and thanksgiving.

Giving 10% cheerfully to the Lord in faith by His grace works. It's blessed.

To you it's a legalistic bondage. To many of us it's a source of blessing.

 

[WordofHisPower]

Show me where any OT families spent "the money" (from selling the tithe) on lodging, transportation, and offerings. If they did, they broke God's commandment to spend ALL the money on food and drink.

Deuteronomy 14:22-26, says 2 times to spend your tithe on whatever your heart desires. It also says rejoice. If you desire to walk and sleep outdoors during your yearly festival you can. I don't. My family and I desire to take transportation and sleep indoors. We can rejoice better doing this.

 

[WordofHisPower]

There is NO NT equivalent for any one of the tithes in the OT. You are making all this up. Or someone else who has made it up has taught you. Not one time in the NT is tithing taught to Christians. Not even one verse.

Anyone can do what you are doing. Justify just about anything you want to do and claim it to be a NT equivalent. The Word says DO NOT ADD TO OR SUBTRACT FROM. You are adding NT equivalents. LOL

They're shadows and types of Christ. All things point to Christ. Romans 5:14, Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 8:5, 10:1, 1 Corinthians 10:6, 11

There's scriptural precedent for giving 10% to the Lord. You're trying to change it to something different, presumably less than 10%. Otherwise you would've agreed 10% is a good scriptural starting point and increase from there.

 

[jamadan]

You're quick to with your own axioms, but not so good about addressing the real problems with them.

Try reading this - Should the Church Teach Tithing? Taboo Answer and then come back and talk to us.

Let's start the conversation with the fact that Jesus and the apostles never tithed - ever.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Perhaps all the "NON-Tithers" are so because they just do not want to feel obligated to give their money away.
Rather spend it on themselves.

Let's be honest, shall we. Handing one's tithe over to his or her "church" organization isn't really "giving" considering that the "giver" reaps direct benefit from their own "giving."

O no, they say "I give as I am directed to".

But talk themselves out of it before they give it.

Then convinced themselves that it wasn't really God that wanted me to give that.

So you think handing it all over to man's organized religion is synonymous with "giving to God", even after recognizing that only the leftovers are utilized to meet needs? How did you arrive at your defense of what clearly is wrong?

So they don't give feeling justified cause "it wasn't really God".

And your alternative?

Others just give what they "feel like" and do give some. Is it even close to being even 10%?

Where did you get the idea scripture demands 10% from wages for us today? Did James demand it? Whom do you say in the NT spoke of that new standard, considering the tithe was NEVER required from wages?

Have you ever read in the Bible where wage EXCHANGED (not an increase)for their wages, or is ridicule the only strength behind your argument?

Therefore not making a quality decision to honor God with their money over a proven period of time never reap the benefits.

I look forward to your biblical references that allegedly back what you're saying.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Giving a cheerful 10% to the Lord is a scriptural opportunity to bless others and be blessed of the Lord.

That has the hollow ring of man-made invention to it. You didn't get that from scripture, did you?

My fellowship uses the money to support missions, the poor, outreach.

Before or after the facility expenditures, such as the bills, its professional staffing, lawn care, carpeting, etc.?

I've cheerfully tithed to the Lord in faith when I couldn't afford it and the Lord came through for me with financial miracles.

There's no doubt the Lord works miracles in hardships. However, if prosperity in the face of adversity is the acid test, then we may as well claim all those worthless Hollywood actors living in opulence are also blessed by God.

If you're a big giver to the Lord you'll see big miracles.

And what of those who faithfully handed over 10% and still lost everything?

You people are masters at all the hype, and ignore the hardships when they don't fit in with your agenda.

The subjective silence is deafening.....

NT giving is cheerful. OT giving was an obligation like the other OT laws.

Cheerfully robbing God is FAR from being an admirable pursuit.

If you don't get excited about giving 10% to the Lord, you're missing an opportunity to see God pour out overflowing blessings. Malachi 3:10

You must have missed the fact that Malachi was addressing the Law to those who were still under the Law. Does your preacher not tell you that the letter of the Law is death? You are a product and victim of selective teaching from Malachi. Don't worry. You're among many others suffering the same fate.

All your references failed to address the questions asked of you, which is very typical of those who defend the robbery of God.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Despite all of that, I don't think it's my place to tell people whether they should or should not "tithe". That's entirely up to them. But I am a living testimony to the fact that "benefits" aren't contingent upon "tithing".

Testimonies of TRUTH, such as yours, pitted against the strong emotions that uphold falsehoods taught to others by men standing behind pulpits most generally are wasted efforts. Very few pro-tithing-to-organized-religion proponents ever take the time to read the scripture IN CONTEXT for themselves. They generally prefer the ease of others they admire telling them what to believe.

What makes all the lies easier to believe are promises of blessing, and also when they experience a higher level of acceptance in the presence of those who are members of the inner clique of an organization. After all, everyone desires acceptance.

Group-think isn't a new phenomenon, as you know. Even a barrage of TRUTH most generally can't get through the callous exteriors of religious thought. The Lord called that "stiff-necked."

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Given that most people get raises every year, gain new skills and get promoted, of course the average person is going to see increase. The question is, does it pass the 30, 60 100 fold increase? Never seen it happen and I tithed faithfully for over a decade until I was set free.

Amen.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Tithe means 10%.

In Luke 18:12, he tithes of all he has to the Lord. That's NT.

Since you don't read the scriptures in context, you need to also consider Jesus was addressing those who were still under the Law, so it makes sense that He upheld the Law to those who were still under it.

Jesus also told a man to go and offer up burnt sacrifices at about the same time frame, so do you offer up burnt sacrifices as Jesus instructed to those who were still under the Law?

You seem to ignore the fact that Jesus never tithed, but I assume you believe He did.....even though you won't be able to find one instance of Him doing so.

Modern "church" buildings are the OT equivalent of the storehouse?

Rubbish! Nowhere will you find the word of God upholding that idea anywhere in the NT.

If you think it's there, then I invite you to show it to us.....without violating context and language.

BTW

 

[Optimax]

implication being, that if one does not tithe, sickness and flat tires come?

my friend, that is law and punishment, sorry, but it's true.


besides, some non tithers increase, and tithers have also decreased.

frog.

What I am saying is what I experienced.

As far as not tithing and law and punishment there are far more things that cause Christians to suffer other than not tithing or giving.

 

[Frogster]

I do follow all I know about. I stay in Christ, in faith and joy. I find treasures in OT scripture I can apply to my life in the new and living way of the NT. Hebrews 10:19-20

There's a NT equivalent to almost anything you find in the OT. You transpose it through Christ, based on Christ's work for us.

I don't sacrifice animals. I offer myself as a living sacrifice, and I offer the sacrifice of praise, the fruit of my lips giving glory to God. Hebrews 13:15, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5

I take communion often as a method to remember Christ's sacrifice for me. Luke 22:19, 1 Corinthians 11:24

I do the various tithes and offerings in the scriptures I shared in post #216, in the NT equivalent.

This thread is about tithing the 10%. No one here does the grain, oil, blood sacrifice parts. We have something better in Christ. But the need for the 10% tithe money to support the Lord's work and take care of the poor is greater today than in the OT.

the jewish food laws were a bigger issue than the temple tithe.

yet you try to bind us to tithe, but not the food laws?

how about we don't eat shrimp, crab, pork, lobster, catfish, as a labor of love?


besides, u have been shown, jesus , peter, Paul, did not tithe, and you can't show any scripture, you are just sort of saying this stuff, with all due respect and courtesy, but you got no text.


ok, should we obstain from those foods?

yes or no?

 

[Frogster]

What I am saying is what I experienced.

As far as not tithing and law and punishment there are far more things that cause Christians to suffer other than not tithing or giving.

you ate too much turkey on thursday!

 

[Optimax]

you ate too much turkey on thursday!

That is true.

Now it is turkey leftovers, turkey sandwiches, turkey gravy, turkey snacks...........................

Shouldn't have bought such a large turkey!

 

[Frogster]

That is true.

Now it is turkey leftovers, turkey sandwiches, turkey gravy, turkey snacks...........................

Shouldn't have bought such a large turkey!

i love the burnt edges on the wings, that crispy skin is soooo good! Hope u enjoyed.

so u r saying u have turkey coming out of your ears u ate so much?

 

[WordofHisPower]

You're quick to with your own axioms, but not so good about addressing the real problems with them.

Try reading this - Should the Church Teach Tithing? Taboo Answer and then come back and talk to us.

Let's start the conversation with the fact that Jesus and the apostles never tithed - ever.

You don't know whether Christ and His disciples didn't tithe. There's no proof either way. If Christ told the Pharisees to continue tithing mint, I'd be inclined to believe He and His disciples tithed.

I read the article. It makes good points about legalistic OT law tithing, with condemnation, curses, pressure. But it doesn't properly address NT cheerful tithing to the Lord. Some of you anti-tithers see all tithing as the type described in the article. You're missing the point of NT tithing.

Tithe always means 10%, not some arbitrary number you choose on your own. It's a form of worship and produces blessings described in scripture and experienced by cheerful thankful tithers.

People who don't want to give 10% to the Lord interpret scripture differently than those who do. You want to keep your money for yourself, so your POV is skewing scripture to justify your desire to withhold 10% from the Lord.

I learned a lot from an extremely giving Pastor. He supports himself and triple tithes to the church. The tithes he collects go to missions, the poor, outreach. He says the people in his church who complained the loudest about giving and tithing were the ones who gave practically nothing. The cheerful tithers are blessed and give generously. I would tend to believe this is occurring on this thread.

The only valid point the anti-tithers are making is the pressure put on people by greedy ministers as a tactic to extort money for themselves. If you know someone like this leave. Find ministers of integrity who're taking Christ's commission seriously. Don't hide behind hypocrites as a ploy to keep your money for yourself.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the types of tithes NT tithers give today.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) the spoils of war (battles, judgements, winfalls). Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithe (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

NT Pharisee tithe 10% of mint, anise, cummin. You won't find this one in the OT, and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

 

[Frogster]

You don't know whether Christ and His disciples didn't tithe. There's no proof either way. If Christ told the Pharisees to continue tithing mint, I'd be inclined to believe He and His disciples tithed.

I read the article. It makes good points about legalistic OT law tithing, with condemnation, curses, pressure. But it doesn't properly address NT cheerful tithing to the Lord. Some of you anti-tithers see all tithing as the type described in the article. You're missing the point of NT tithing.

Tithe always means 10%, not some arbitrary number you choose on your own. It's a form of worship and produces blessings described in scripture and experienced by cheerful thankful tithers.

People who don't want to give 10% to the Lord interpret scripture differently than those who do. You want to keep your money for yourself, so your POV is skewing scripture to justify your desire to withhold 10% from the Lord.

I learned a lot from an extremely giving Pastor. He supports himself and triple tithes to the church. The tithes he collects go to missions, the poor, outreach. He says the people in his church who complained the loudest about giving and tithing were the ones who gave practically nothing. The cheerful tithers are blessed and give generously. I would tend to believe this is occurring on this thread.

The only valid point the anti-tithers are making is the pressure put on people by greedy ministers as a tactic to extort money for themselves. If you know someone like this leave. Find ministers of integrity who're taking Christ's commission seriously. Don't hide behind hypocrites as a ploy to keep your money for yourself.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the types of tithes NT tithers give today.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) the spoils of war (battles, judgements, winfalls). Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithe (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

NT Pharisee tithe 10% of mint, anise, cummin. You won't find this one in the OT, and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

you are repeating verses that have already been rebutted.

 

[Optimax]

i love the burnt edges on the wings, that crispy skin is soooo good! Hope u enjoyed.

so u r saying u have turkey coming out of your ears u ate so much?

Turkey sandwiches are good!

 

[Frogster]

You don't know whether Christ and His disciples didn't tithe. There's no proof either way. If Christ told the Pharisees to continue tithing mint, I'd be inclined to believe He and His disciples tithed.

I read the article. It makes good points about legalistic OT law tithing, with condemnation, curses, pressure. But it doesn't properly address NT cheerful tithing to the Lord. Some of you anti-tithers see all tithing as the type described in the article. You're missing the point of NT tithing.

Tithe always means 10%, not some arbitrary number you choose on your own. It's a form of worship and produces blessings described in scripture and experienced by cheerful thankful tithers.

People who don't want to give 10% to the Lord interpret scripture differently than those who do. You want to keep your money for yourself, so your POV is skewing scripture to justify your desire to withhold 10% from the Lord.

I learned a lot from an extremely giving Pastor. He supports himself and triple tithes to the church. The tithes he collects go to missions, the poor, outreach. He says the people in his church who complained the loudest about giving and tithing were the ones who gave practically nothing. The cheerful tithers are blessed and give generously. I would tend to believe this is occurring on this thread.

The only valid point the anti-tithers are making is the pressure put on people by greedy ministers as a tactic to extort money for themselves. If you know someone like this leave. Find ministers of integrity who're taking Christ's commission seriously. Don't hide behind hypocrites as a ploy to keep your money for yourself.

Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the types of tithes NT tithers give today.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) the spoils of war (battles, judgements, winfalls). Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithe (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

NT Pharisee tithe 10% of mint, anise, cummin. You won't find this one in the OT, and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

do i out of some labor of love, not eat foods that the law said not to eat? the pharisees didn't eat those foods, you use them as an example in luke 18, and matt 22. They were under those laws too.