To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[Frogster]

typo, i meant to say the pharisees kept the food laws too, in other words, why don't we do as they did with food laws, why just temple tithe laws put on us?

 

[WordofHisPower]

the jewish food laws were a bigger issue than the temple tithe.

yet you try to bind us to tithe, but not the food laws?

how about we don't eat shrimp, crab, pork, lobster, catfish, as a labor of love?


besides, u have been shown, jesus , peter, Paul, did not tithe, and you can't show any scripture, you are just sort of saying this stuff, with all due respect and courtesy, but you got no text.


ok, should we obstain from those foods?

yes or no?

Not trying to bind you to anything. We're free in Christ. Tithing is a privilege and comes with blessings. It's an opportunity to give to the Lord. There's no compulsion or curse associated. The Lord deserves your best and the Holy Spirit leads you to give your best.

You can't prove Paul didn't tithe. There's no proof either way.

 

[Frogster]

Not trying to bind you to anything. We're free in Christ. Tithing is a privilege and comes with blessings. It's an opportunity to give to the Lord. There's no compulsion or curse associated. The Lord deserves your best and the Holy Spirit leads you to give your best.

You can't prove Paul didn't tithe. There's no proof either way.

he did not teach it, he did not do it, the jews knew ot was for the temple, and paul was a craftsman, u argue from absense.


DO WE OUT OF A LABOR OF LOVE, NOT EAT THE FOODS, AS THE PHARISEES DIDN'T WHO U USE AS OUR EXAMPLE?

 

[WordofHisPower]

typo, i meant to say the pharisees kept the food laws too, in other words, why don't we do as they did with food laws, why just temple tithe laws put on us?

Tithe is pre-law too. I'm not talking about the legalistic tithing. I gave several examples of pre-law cheerful tithing. Why do you ignore the pre-law non-legalistic examples?
Here's a list of as various tithes (10%) I found so far. The ones with * are the types of tithes NT tithers give today.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) the spoils of war (battles, judgements, winfalls). Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithe (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

NT Pharisee tithe 10% of mint, anise, cummin. You won't find this one in the OT, and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything. 2 Chronicles 31:5

 

[WordofHisPower]

he did not teach it, he did not do it, the jews knew ot was for the temple, and paul was a craftsman, u argue from absense.


DO WE OUT OF A LABOR OF LOVE, NOT EAT THE FOODS, AS THE PHARISEES DIDN'T WHO U USE AS OUR EXAMPLE?

But so do you.

 

[Frogster]

But so do you.

uh uh, u use them to bind tithe using luke 18, and matt 22, all while u don't use them on the more important laws that were in judaism the food stuff. Why is that?

wouldn't we want to have a labor of love, not eat pork, that was detestable in the OT!

 

[K2K]

You can make giving 10% (tithe) to the Lord work if you want to. You're trying to make it look like giving 10% to the Lord is done away with. It's not. It predates and postdates the law, as an act of faith and thanksgiving.

Giving 10% cheerfully to the Lord in faith by His grace works. It's blessed.

To you it's a legalistic bondage. To many of us it's a source of blessing.

Is given 10% really your source of blessing??

For me, the Lord is my source of blessing. So if you are saying that because you enjoy the Lord and the relationship that you have with Him, you love giving 10% to Him, then I fully understand. But look at what you did write! "it's a source of blessing"

You wrote that following a rule of giving 10% was your source of blessing. Then by what you wrote, you feel the giving per a rule is the source of you blessing!

It is not the giving 10% or not giving that is the problem, but rather a question of whether we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ or not!!!

The Pharisees gave their tithes and felt that they were blessed (probably were to some extinct), but they did not know the Lord.

I was talking to My Lord yesterday at lunch. And He was telling me that there is a portion of faith that lets a person believe in the Law, and another portion of faith that lets a person believe in Him.

The Pharisess believe that God existed, and so gave according to the Law. Abraham believe that God existed, and so took what he had and moved.

The reason God gave the Law was that His people at the foot of the mountain would not listen to Him!! So He gave them rules to live by. And by following those rules they would be blessed. So for those living by the Law, indeed they are blessed by following the Law. But the Law will not save them, for all the reasons Paul wrote about.

So if a person writes that giving 10% is their source of blessing, they have clearly stated that they are under the Law. That is the portion of faith that they have. And just like the religious leaders back when Jesus came in the flesh, they have a portion of faith that lets them believe in God, but not a portion of faith that gets them to seek God for advice.

That may not necesarily be bad for them and this point, but a change needs to happen. And that change has nothing to do with tithing or not. It is the change that happened to Saul (who zealously followed the Law) and created Paul ( who zealously followed the Lord)

Saul would have written that he was blessed by following the Law and gave His tithe, but Paul would have written that he was blessed of the Lord and moved where the Lord told him.

People, when you talk to the Lord daily (as in having conversations with Him) you can no longer say that you are blessed by following the Law, but by following what the Lord tells you. And He tells you to do things, including giving! However He sometimes has you give this amount there, and that amount here, because He is able to determine what amount is needed, when and where, and the Law can't do that!

So righteousness was not obtained by following the Law, but by listening to God and doing what He says. And that is what the subject of tithing is all about. It's not about giving at all, it is about listening or not!!

If you don't seek the voice of the Lord and His instructions to you; you need to be under the Law. If you do seek the voice of the Lord and His instructions, then you need to give according to what He tells you.

So what do I preach?

I preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and risen. He was crucified by those that did not listen, and risen to those that would listen.

So I am blessed by the Lord because I hear from Him, where as someone else may indeed get their blessing from following the Law which requires giving according to rules instead of the voice of the Lord.

But beaware, the Law does not save. You need to get to know Jesus Christ and not just the book that tells you about Him.

Gal 5:4-6 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to by justified by Law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for fope of righteiousness. for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but raith working through love.

 

[WordofHisPower]

uh uh, u use them to bind tithe using luke 18, and matt 22, all while u don't use them on the more important laws that were in judaism the food stuff. Why is that?

wouldn't we want to have a labor of love, and not eat pork, that was detestable in the OT!

This is getting redundant. I answered the same questions several times.

Tithers interpret scripture differently than non-tithers.

Tithers love to give and see giving in scripture.

Givers wounded by legalistic tithing look for other scriptural ways to give.

Non-tithers look for loopholes to excuse themselves from giving and ease their conscience.

 

[Giver]

(Mark12: 43-44) “A poor widow came and put in two small coins, the equivalent of a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, ‘I tell you solemnly, this poor widow has put more in than all who have contributed to the treasury; for they have all put in money they had over, but she from the little she had has put in everything she possessed, all she had to live on.”

I believe Jesus told us to give up everything, and everything we needed should be owned in common with our brothers and sisters.

(Acts 2:44-45) “The faithful all lived together and owned everything in common; they sold their goods and possessions and shared out the proceeds among themselves according to what each one needed.”


(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

When I was about to say yes to Jesus asking me to give him my life, the Holy Spirit let me know that if I gave my life to Jesus I would lose everything I owned.

A few months later I was living in a tent with my wife and three babies. No longer did I have a savings account.

 

[probinson]

What I am saying is what I experienced.

But you're saying more than that. Your implication, though not directly stated, seems to be that you stopped having flat tires and sick children because you started tithing. In the tithing teachings I've heard over the years, this is what would be known as having the devourer rebuked for your sake.

But my point in my last post was that for 3 years, I've not 'tithed' once. Oh, I've given plenty of money, but I've done so cheerfully as I determined in my heart. Yet I haven't had a single flat tire or sick child in all that time. In fact, I've had no large financial setbacks at all.

And this is where people who support 'tithing' seem to lack the ability to respond. If in fact, as the teaching goes, the 'benefits' are contingent upon the act of 'tithing', how is it possible that someone like me, who simply gives cheerfully, has experienced greater financial blessing than I ever did when I adhered to the 'tithing' teaching?

 

[Frogster]

This is getting redundant. I answered the same questions several times.

Tithers interpret scripture differently than non-tithers.

Tithers love to give and see giving in scripture.

Givers wounded by legalistic tithing look for other scriptural ways to give.

Non-tithers look for loopholes to excuse themselves from giving and ease their conscience.

uh uh, redundant is u keep using matt 22, and luke 18, using pharisees under temple law, yet you ignore food laws.

dude, jews will tell u they can't tithe, no temple, yet they will tell u they obstain from those foods still because they can do that.

ok, you want to bind us to temple laws that no one can do, but u won't bind us to food laws using the same judaism, that we can do.

CAN U ABSTAIN FROM PORK, LOBSTER, CRAB, SHRIMP?

lets have a labor of love and not eat destable foods.....

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I don't necessarily blame some preachers for teaching falsehoods, such as the idea that handing one's primary giving over to institutionalized religion is allegedly synonymous with giving to God. As with those who sit under their tutelage, they too have human weaknesses, such as the tendency to blindly believe what is taught to them by those whom they mistakenly admire.

Someone attempted to draw a parallel between (some) of what goes on within modern institutionalism and the historic temple.

Given what scripture says, I'm inclined to reject that comparison. I do so on the basis of what happened at the last temple ever built. The veil was rent from top to bottom. That facility was therefore completely stripped of all its significance to followers of Christ Jesus so that the emphasis could credibly rest upon Christ Jesus and His redeemed as the LIVING temples of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, the logical question remains: Why would any TRUE believer want to do as the Mormons; who continue to erect and bestow upon their pathetic "temples" the significance they currently and historically place upon them? None of them are storehouses or dwellings within which the Lord resides. There is little to no sustenance in them for those in need, and surely not enough if hard times hit, so why anyone claims they are storehouses, that is yet to be understood.

When I give to the family down the street experiencing hardship, I have given to God. When I give to meet the needs of a facility and its professional staffing, I have not given to God, but rather met an earthly, man-made obligation, akin to a facility use fee. Nowhere did the NT ever convey the idea we should continue exercising any importance upon facilities. They are a luxury, not a necessity.

That's not to say itinerant evangelists and teachers should not be supported. What it does say is that "church" organizations are not priorities above and beyond the needs of fellow believers and the needy within local communities. Sadly, God's priorities are routinely turned up-side down by institutional religion by way of typical, traditional, historic, false teachings.

The Church has no need for communal facilities and professional staffing to function as the body of Christ Jesus. Anyone who would say otherwise, I ask to demonstrate such from scripture.....if you can.

BTW

 

[probinson]

Tithers interpret scripture differently than non-tithers.

Tithers love to give and see giving in scripture.

Givers wounded by legalistic tithing look for other scriptural ways to give.

I'm curious... Could you describe the difference in what you're calling 'legalistic' tithing vs. non-legalistic tithing?

I'm not one that was 'wounded' by tithing, but I have had God show me some things that have caused me to abandon the teachings on 'tithing' that I believed for my entire life in favor of cheerful, generous giving.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

We're blessed because we are children of the King.

We're NOT blessed because of what we DO, but because who WHO WE ARE.

Why can't some people get that straight.....?

BTW

 

[WordofHisPower]

Is given 10% really your source of blessing??

For me, the Lord is my source of blessing. So if you are saying that because you enjoy the Lord and the relationship that you have with Him, you love giving 10% to Him, then I fully understand. But look at what you did write! "it's a source of blessing"

You wrote that following a rule of giving 10% was your source of blessing. Then by what you wrote, you feel the giving per a rule is the source of you blessing!

It is not the giving 10% or not giving that is the problem, but rather a question of whether we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ or not!!!

The Pharisees gave their tithes and felt that they were blessed (probably were to some extinct), but they did not know the Lord.

I was talking to My Lord yesterday at lunch. And He was telling me that there is a portion of faith that lets a person believe in the Law, and another portion of faith that lets a person believe in Him.

The Pharisess believe that God existed, and so gave according to the Law. Abraham believe that God existed, and so took what he had and moved.

The reason God gave the Law was that His people at the foot of the mountain would not listen to Him!! So He gave them rules to live by. And by following those rules they would be blessed. So for those living by the Law, indeed they are blessed by following the Law. But the Law will not save them, for all the reasons Paul wrote about.

So if a person writes that giving 10% is their source of blessing, they have clearly stated that they are under the Law. That is the portion of faith that they have. And just like the religious leaders back when Jesus came in the flesh, they have a portion of faith that lets them believe in God, but not a portion of faith that gets them to seek God for advice.

That may not necesarily be bad for them and this point, but a change needs to happen. And that change has nothing to do with tithing or not. It is the change that happened to Saul (who zealously followed the Law) and created Paul ( who zealously followed the Lord)

Saul would have written that he was blessed by following the Law and gave His tithe, but Paul would have written that he was blessed of the Lord and moved where the Lord told him.

People, when you talk to the Lord daily (as in having conversations with Him) you can no longer say that you are blessed by following the Law, but by following what the Lord tells you. And He tells you to do things, including giving! However He sometimes has you give this amount there, and that amount here, because He is able to determine what amount is needed, when and where, and the Law can't do that!

So righteousness was not obtained by following the Law, but by listening to God and doing what He says. And that is what the subject of tithing is all about. It's not about giving at all, it is about listening or not!!

If you don't seek the voice of the Lord and His instructions to you; you need to be under the Law. If you do seek the voice of the Lord and His instructions, then you need to give according to what He tells you.

So what do I preach?

I preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and risen. He was crucified by those that did not listen, and risen to those that would listen.

So I am blessed by the Lord because I hear from Him, where as someone else may indeed get their blessing from following the Law which requires giving according to rules instead of the voice of the Lord.

But beaware, the Law does not save. You need to get to know Jesus Christ and not just the book that tells you about Him.

Gal 5:4-6 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to by justified by Law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for fope of righteiousness. for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but raith working through love.

Good questions.

When you pray in faith good things happen. It's a spiritual law, not an OT rule or law. When you love your enemies, avoid sin, tithe, work diligently good things happen. Anytime you follow God's instruction good things happen.

But there's a mountainous inheritance of blessing for those who are in Christ without doing anything. If you don't pray or tithe or love your enemies or avoid sin you still have the inheritance in Christ.

One of the blessings of being in Christ is you want to follow God's instructions, and they reap additional blessings. Looking at them as laws is turning God's gifts and blessings into legalism.

 

[Frogster]

Good questions.

When you pray in faith good things happen. It's a spiritual law, not an OT rule or law. When you love your enemies, avoid sin, tithe, work diligently good things happen. Anytime you follow God's instruction good things happen.

But there's a mountainous inheritance of blessing for those who are in Christ without doing anything. If you don't pray or tithe or love your enemies or avoid sin you still have the inheritance in Christ.

One of the blessings of being in Christ is you want to follow God's instructions, and they reap additional blessings. Looking at them as laws is turning God's gifts and blessings into legalism.

can i eat detestable catfish that does not have scales? the OT people did not, the pharisees of matt 22 and luke 18 did not.





Leviticus 11:12
Everything in the waters that does not have fins and scales is detestable to you.

 

[WordofHisPower]

We're blessed because we are children of the King.

We're NOT blessed because of what we DO, but because who WHO WE ARE.

Why can't some people get that straight.....?

BTW

You're right, we're blessed in Christ. But tithing and following God's instructions bring additional blessings. Christ says you can be more blessed.

"Remember the words of the Lord Jesus, "It's more blessed to give than to receive." Acts 20:35

 

[Frogster]

You're right, we're blessed in Christ. But tithing and following God's instructions bring additional blessings. Christ says you can be more blessed.

"Remember the words of the Lord Jesus, "It's more blessed to give than to receive." Acts 20:35

what about the food instructions?

ps, acts 20, paul showed them to work, they were elders.

 

[K2K]

This is getting redundant. I answered the same questions several times.

Tithers interpret scripture differently than non-tithers.

Tithers love to give and see giving in scripture.

Givers wounded by legalistic tithing look for other scriptural ways to give.

Non-tithers look for loopholes to excuse themselves from giving and ease their conscience.

Are there just tithers and non-tithers; as in one that gives and one that does want to give?

What about those that give but not by a rule?

What about those that give by a rule and those that give by what the voice of the Lord tells them?

Giving because of a rule is giving under Law. A person giving by a rule might feel blessed. It can feel nice to give and feel you are part of something. It seems that there are other religions in which people give and feel ok about it also.

We who follow the Lord, don't give by a rule but according to what He tells us. So at times you see someone give thousands to a church. Why did they do that?

And if someone did give the church thousands, then have they not accomplished the rule and for sometime to come?

So it is that following the Lord will require giving, but where and when it is needed, because He knows exactly where and when it is needed.

A person giving by a rule, can feel blessed. They can feel proud that they give and are not like those others. But then that reminds me of another Bible story.

 

[WordofHisPower]

I'm curious... Could you describe the difference in what you're calling 'legalistic' tithing vs. non-legalistic tithing?

I'm not one that was 'wounded' by tithing, but I have had God show me some things that have caused me to abandon the teachings on 'tithing' that I believed for my entire life in favor of cheerful, generous giving.

Legalistic tithing is when you think you'll only be blessed by God if you tithe a certain way. Hyper-legalistic tithing is when you think you'll be cursed by God if you don't tithe in a certain way.

There are some teachings on tithing that should be abandoned.

Cheerful generous tithing is what blessed tithers do. They see 10% in scripture, do it in faith, and are blessed. Ask anyone who's a blessed tither. They have a different attitude toward tithing than non-tithers or fearful tithers.