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To the Churches of the Seven Continents

frogoon234

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That is why I suggested that you need to study the covenant relationship between God and his Congregation. Go check the Parable of the Wedding Feast for example. The unbelievers NEVER go into God's congregation unless they are called. Only a few of those are actually saved.

Matthew 22:14 KJV
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen.

First that was one man in the whole wedding feast that didn't make it into the wedding so that is besides the point (probably atleast a 100 people at the feast).

As for the amount of people who are ultimately saved in the end, yes you might be right about that.

Where can i find the relationship between God and his congregation other than looking to the Bible.

Do you have a link?
 
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TribulationSigns

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First that was one man in the whole wedding feast that didn't make it into the wedding

One man? Where did you read that in Matthew 22?

so that is besides the point (probably atleast a 100 people at the feast).

It does not sound like you actually have study the Bible! Where did you get the idea about "at least 100 people at the feast" from?!

As for the amount of people who are ultimately saved in the end, yes you might be right about that.

Of course, I am. Even being a few out of a whole, there will be "great multitude" of Elect in the end.

Where can i find the relationship between God and his congregation other than looking to the Bible.

Other than looking to the Bible? Wow! The Bible is the authority. I take that you really don't like reading the Bible.

Do you have a link?

No, go study with your Bible.
 
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frogoon234

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One man? Where did you read that in Matthew 22?



It does not sound like you actually have study the Bible! Where did you get the idea about "at least 100 people at the feast" from?!



Of course, I am. Even being a few out of a whole, there will be "great multitude" of Elect in the end.



Other than looking to the Bible? Wow! The Bible is the authority. I take that you really don't like reading the Bible.



No, go study with your Bible.

The one man:

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
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frogoon234

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The one man:

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Don't goad me! I just got reported on something stupid so don't make me preempt the situation.

I study the Bible plenty.
 
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frogoon234

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The one man:

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How many people (ball park figure) do you think were at the wedding considering the fact that wedding was a metaphor or parable of reality?
 
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TribulationSigns

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The one man:

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I assure you that there will be MANY who will cast out of His Kingdom. He was talking to every one as an individual who does not wear a wedding garment (salvation), just like every man with the spirit of antichrist because of there are many, not just one antichrist.
 
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frogoon234

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I assure you that there will be MANY who will cast out of His Kingdom. He was talking to every one as an individual who does not wear a wedding garment (salvation), just like every man with the spirit of antichrist because of there are many, not just one antichrist.

You assure me but I have no idea who you are so you should just stick to the scripture.

Its a big wedding (fact)

a single person was mentioned (you are right this probably represents a multitude) (although literally only one is mentioned in this parable according to the KJV bible)

And yes according to the Bible many will not be saved from eternal suffering. You are right on that.
Eternal suffering for other people is not something for christians to get excited about. It is justice but it is still sad.
 
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TribulationSigns

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How many people (ball park figure) do you think were at the wedding considering the fact that wedding was a metaphor or parable of reality?

Are you serious? Here is the answer:

Revelation 7:1-9 KJV
[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

John HEARD the symbolic number (144,000) which signifies ALL Elect from Old and New Testament. And he SAW the Great Multitude as a result. If John could not number the great multitude, what made you think I can? Notice the white robes? It is a wedding garment who attends to wedding! :)
 
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frogoon234

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Are you serious? Here is the answer:

Revelation 7:1-9 KJV
[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

John HEARD the symbolic number (144,000) which signifies ALL Elect from Old and New Testament. And he SAW the Great Multitude as a result. If John could not number the great multitude, what made you think I can? Notice the white robes? It is a wedding garment who attends to wedding! :)

That 144,00 does not signify all of the elect. Thats not necessarily Biblical. It says right there that they come from the 12 Tribes of Israel including the Tribe of Dan.

The unnumbered multitude is the traditional church from all nations of the earth. That is the typical interpretation. Is it the right interpretation, i'm not quite sure.

Stop goading me with stuff like "Are you serious?"
 
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frogoon234

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Are you serious? Here is the answer:

Revelation 7:1-9 KJV
[1] And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2] And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3] Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

John HEARD the symbolic number (144,000) which signifies ALL Elect from Old and New Testament. And he SAW the Great Multitude as a result. If John could not number the great multitude, what made you think I can? Notice the white robes? It is a wedding garment who attends to wedding! :)
And don't waste my time with your anger. If you want to become a preacher or a Bible study teacher in your town then do it. This is an online forum and you should treat it like that.
 
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TribulationSigns

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That 144,00 does not signify all of the elect. Thats not necessarily Biblical. It says right there that they come from the 12 Tribes of Israel including the Tribe of Dan.

The unnumbered multitude is the traditional church from all nations of the earth. That is the typical interpretation. Is it the right interpretation, i'm not quite sure.

Typical Premillennial teaching. You got 144,000 part wrong. It is not Jews from physical 12 tribes of national Israel.

Observe carefully:

Revelation 14:1-4 KJV
[1] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
[2] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

And aren't we, as Christians, also firstfruits in Christ?

Romans 16:5 KJV
[5] Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Romans 8:23 KJV
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

144,000 is indeed all Elect from Old and New Testament IN CHRIST. We are New Jersualem making up of Elect from Old Testament (12 tribes) and New Testament (12 apostles). One Bride!

Revelation 21:9-17 KJV
[9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
[13] On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
[14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
[15] And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
[16] And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
[17] And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

See? John measured the WHOLE CITY, to be 144! The city is not a physical city, but PEOPLE who were saved out of old testament (12 tribes) and new testament (12 apostles) but together they are ONE CITY, ONE BRIDE, ONE JERUSALEM, ONE OLIVE TREE, ONE CONGREGATION, and ONE HOLY NATION.

That put the idea about God having two salvation programs. One with the Jews only as 144,000 while the great multitudes being the Gentiles only. Bad doctrine, I am telling you!
 
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frogoon234

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Typical Premillennial teaching. You got 144,000 part wrong. It is not Jews from physical 12 tribes of national Israel.

Observe carefully:

Revelation 14:1-4 KJV
[1] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
[2] And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

And aren't we, as Christians, also firstfruits in Christ?

Romans 16:5 KJV
[5] Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Romans 8:23 KJV
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

144,000 is indeed all Elect from Old and New Testament IN CHRIST. We are New Jersualem making up of Elect from Old Testament (12 tribes) and New Testament (12 apostles). One Bride!

Revelation 21:9-17 KJV
[9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
[13] On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
[14] And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
[15] And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
[16] And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
[17] And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

See? John measured the WHOLE CITY, to be 144! The city is not a physical city, but PEOPLE who were saved out of old testament (12 tribes) and new testament (12 apostles) but together they are ONE CITY, ONE BRIDE, ONE JERUSALEM, ONE OLIVE TREE, ONE CONGREGATION, and ONE HOLY NATION.

That put the idea about God having two salvation programs. One with the Jews only as 144,000 while the great multitudes being the Gentiles only. Bad doctrine, I am telling you!

I'm assuming you wanted me to pay attention to the red underlined letters. In no way shape or form does this prove your point. There are some premillenial teachings that are accurate.

How do those underlined red phrases prove these aren't from the 12 tribes of Israel?
I'm very familiar with this passage.
 
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TribulationSigns

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And don't waste my time with your anger. If you want to become a preacher or a Bible study teacher in your town then do it. This is an online forum and you should treat it like that.

Funny. I can teach wherever Christ wants me to be, even the online forum where Christians are.

Matthew 18:20 KJV
[20] For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

It does not have to be in a building called "church", nor I only teach on Sunday. The church can be anywhere, anytime, wherever two or three (or more) gathered in Christ's name.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I'm assuming you wanted me to pay attention to the red underlined letters. In no way shape or form does this prove your point. There are some premillenial teachings that are accurate.

How do those underlined red phrases prove these aren't from the 12 tribes of Israel?
I'm very familiar with this passage.

I take that you do not understand that the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. Not literal. Sorry. No 144,000 Jews for you!
 
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frogoon234

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I take that you do not understand that the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. Not literal. Sorry. No 144,000 Jews for you!

I guess we can just agree to disagree.
 
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frogoon234

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I take that you do not understand that the numbers in Revelation are symbolic. Not literal. Sorry. No 144,000 Jews for you!

I'm glad you enjoyed all this. Thanks for saying you found my post funny.
 
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frogoon234

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TribulationSigns

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Why does it say they were undefiled by women? (the 144,000). We know the church teaches it is ok for men to marry women. These 144,000 are male virgins or something akin to a virgin.

Revelation 14:4 KJV
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The problem is that some people like you are thinking about male Jews who won't have sex relationship with women. That is NOT what God is talking about here.

We, the Elect, are the virgins (chaste in Christ), the followers of Christ, the redeemed, the undefiled, and that sounds like the full body of Christ to me. The concept of God's firstfruits derives from the creation work, namely in Christ that which is first and best (firstfruits) belongs to Him. The reason God says we, as the firstfruits, were never defiled and where we are truly virgins in Christ was because we were in God's hand and God preserved us as such by the "sealing of His Holy Spirit" unto this day of redemption. We couldn't lose redemption because it means we were ransomed in full. Not in part, but the full price was paid so that we cannot have debt or sin wherein we could possibly be lost. If your debt for sin is paid in full, you are virgin in God's eyes. But if any professed Christians stand before God where they has sin that has NOT been paid for by the Son, they are already defiled. In other words, they do not have wedding garment and will be cast into the Lake of Fire. There is no sin that could cause it to be "not paid," else the debt for sin wasn't paid in full in the first place.
 
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frogoon234

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Revelation 14:4 KJV
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The problem is that some people like you are thinking about male Jews who won't have sex relationship with women. That is NOT what God is talking about here.

We, the Elect, are the virgins (chaste in Christ), the followers of Christ, the redeemed, the undefiled, and that sounds like the full body of Christ to me. The concept of God's firstfruits derives from the creation work, namely in Christ that which is first and best (firstfruits) belongs to Him. The reason God says we, as the firstfruits, were never defiled and where we are truly virgins in Christ was because we were in God's hand and God preserved us as such by the "sealing of His Holy Spirit" unto this day of redemption. We couldn't lose redemption because it means we were ransomed in full. Not in part, but the full price was paid so that we cannot have debt or sin wherein we could possibly be lost. If your debt for sin is paid in full, you are virgin in God's eyes. But if any professed Christians stand before God where they has sin that has NOT been paid for by the Son, they are already defiled. In other words, they do not have wedding garment and will be cast into the Lake of Fire. There is no sin that could cause it to be "not paid," else the debt for sin wasn't paid in full in the first place.

I don't think that paragraph is biblical in the sense that it implies that sex is sin. The undefiled by women part just implies these 144,000 were elite. Just as 1 Corinthians chapter 3 says there are elite christians who built their houses with gold and not wood. Please read 1 Corinthians chapter 3 before commenting. Also Jesus said fear not because there are many mansions in his father's house.

As for that article you sent, it does seem plausible but i'm still reviewing it. It will take me a while to review it. Thanks for sending it.
 
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