To kill the Passover Lamb [open]

[MattyJames]

Hi Folks,

Since Pesach is comming up, I've been thinking; Is it still applicable to kill the lamb for the sedar? Since Messiah is now our lamb, what relevance would the death of another lamb be??

kind regards,

Matt James

 

[Hadassah]

This was created out of our Questions thread.

I'm sure this will start a lively converstation...

 

[Henaynei]

IMHO - we can't sacrifice the lamb until we have the Temple - when the Temple is back in place then the Seder should include a lamb sacrificed at the Temple - it will be interesting to see what halakot arise from the fact that Jews are scattered all over the world and can't get to the Temple for Pesakh, and a lamb sacrificed before Pesakh is NOT a KLP for the Seder ...

just a reminder: the actual blood or flesh of a sacrifice was never the vehicle of redemption - it was ALWAYS obedience with kavannah - sacrifices prior to Yeshua pointed forward to His sacrifice and those after Yeshua did and will point back to His sacrifice - obedience is obedience in both

 

[Steve Petersen]

IMHO - we can't sacrifice the lamb until we have the Temple - when the Temple is back in place then the Seder should include a lamb sacrificed at the Temple - it will be interesting to see what halakot arise from the fact that Jews are scattered all over the world and can't get to the Temple for Pesakh, and a lamb sacrificed before Pesakh is NOT a KLP for the Seder ...

just a reminder: the actual blood or flesh of a sacrifice was never the vehicle of redemption - it was ALWAYS obedience with kavannah - sacrifices prior to Yeshua pointed forward to His sacrifice and those after Yeshua did and will point back to His sacrifice - obedience is obedience in both

The current situation with Jews in Diaspora and the difficulty of keeping the commandment was true in Yeshua's day as well. There were Jews from Spain to India and Germany to Algeria.

 

[visionary]

Man is one who appreciates live demonstrations. FOr some reason we need to see, touch, feel, and make personal connnection to understand. God doesn't need any more sacrifices. The services are for us, for our minds to fully wrap around the concept.

Isaiah 1:11
"The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

enough is enough... Now is the time for a different type of sacrifice...

Psalm 27:6
And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.

As Yeshua said...

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

by faith, I believe...

Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Henaynei]

The current situation with Jews in Diaspora and the difficulty of keeping the commandment was true in Yeshua's day as well. There were Jews from Spain to India and Germany to Algeria.

that is, of course, true - but the difference being that prior to the first century the vast majority of Jewish people lived in Israel while today the vast majority live outside Israel

 

[Henaynei]

Man is one who appreciates live demonstrations. For some reason we need to see, touch, feel, and make personal connection to understand. God doesn't need any more sacrifices. The services are for us, for our minds to fully wrap around the concept.

enough is enough... Now is the time for a different type of sacrifice... As Yeshua said... by faith, I believe...

What I have learned is that of which He had enough was actions without heart, works without faith - He never changed His instruction that mandated sacrifices His gripe has always been, then and now, that obedience done without a humble submitted intentional heart and mind is vacuous, and is insulting to The Creator of the Universe

 

[MattyJames]

Man is one who appreciates live demonstrations. FOr some reason we need to see, touch, feel, and make personal connnection to understand. God doesn't need any more sacrifices. The services are for us, for our minds to fully wrap around the concept.

enough is enough... Now is the time for a different type of sacrifice... As Yeshua said... by faith, I believe...

Vis - how do you seperate your post from 'Replacement Theology'?

Thats what I'm trying to reconcile.

MJ

 

[MattyJames]

The bottom line is that the Sacrifices were commanded. They weren't an 'option'.

MJ

 

[visionary]

Vis - how do you seperate your post from 'Replacement Theology'?

Thats what I'm trying to reconcile.

MJ

I understand replacement theology to mean that gentiles replace Israel. I have not thought Yeshua is not the sacrifice promised on the temple illustration of how sins are forgiven in heaven.

 

[Steve Petersen]

What I have learned is that of which He had enough was actions without heart, works without faith - He never changed His instruction that mandated sacrifices His gripe has always been, then and now, that obedience done without a humble submitted intentional heart and mind is vacuous, and is insulting to The Creator of the Universe

The Northern tribes were carried away by the Assyrians about 700 BC and never returned. How could they bring a Passover sacrifices?

The bottom line is that the Sacrifices were commanded. They weren't an 'option'.

MJ

What is the penalty for not bringing these sacrifices?

 

[HaNotsri]

that is, of course, true - but the difference being that prior to the first century the vast majority of Jewish people lived in Israel while today the vast majority live outside Israel

I don't necessarily believe that. Jewish tradition states that the majority of the Jews were living in Erets Yisroel at the time. In fact, they believe navua (prophecy) left k'lal Yisroel because of that fact.

The Northern tribes were carried away by the Assyrians about 700 BC and never returned. How could they bring a Passover sacrifices?

[

Not entirely true. Not all of the inhabitants of the northern tribes were transplanted. There is plenty of biblical evidence to suggest plenty of people came back to the southern kingdom (either by force or fleeing or returning with the exiles)

 

[Henaynei]

that is, of course, true - but the difference being that prior to the first century the vast majority of Jewish people lived in Israel while today the vast majority live outside Israel

I don't necessarily believe that. Jewish tradition states that the majority of the Jews were living in Erets Yisroel at the time. In fact, they believe navua (prophecy) left k'lal Yisroel because of that fact.

I'm not sure you actually said here what you meant to say ... it appears you are saying what I said, and then contradict it... help??

 

[MattyJames]

I understand replacement theology to mean that gentiles replace Israel. I have not thought Yeshua is not the sacrifice promised on the temple illustration of how sins are forgiven in heaven.

From what I understand, replacement theology goes a lot deeper than that.

Sabbath to Sunday - another limb of RT.

JMO.

MJ