THE LORD’S PASSOVER This Year?

[Bro.T]

Celebrating the Passover on the 14th of Nissan, which this year was April 4th, is Quartodecimianism and is forbidden by the canons of the Council of Nicaea.

Rather, there are two legitimate dates for the Passover this year: last Sunday the 16th for Christians on the Julian, Revised Julian or Coptic Calendars, most Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians and some Eastern Catholics, and the 9th, the Sunday before that, for Christians on the Gregorian Calendar, which is most Western Christians (except for Western Rite Orthodox) along with most Eastern Catholics and the Finnish Orthodox, Estonian Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, the St. Thomas Christians in India (so called because they were evangelized by the Apostle Thomas in 53 AD), and the Assyrian Church of the East.

Which day does the Bible say the Passover is, because that the date that counts.

 

[Clare73]

Most of us can agree that Easter is pagan and have nothing to do with Jesus. Now despite the fact that Jesus Himself said that He would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, man has come up with the tradition of Jesus dying on Good Friday and rising early Sunday morning. In following this tradition,

The NT account is not "tradition," it is the word of God written, which presents Jesus' death on Passover and his resurrection the day after the Sabbath, the first day of the week.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Most of us can agree that Easter is pagan and have nothing to do with Jesus.

I disagree.

 

[JSRG]

ORIGIN OF SUNDAY WORSHIP


Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

According to the Bible the rest day is the seventh day of the week, Saturday. Which is falling Jerusalem time.

You see, in the Council of Trent (1545 A.D.), the church leaders ruled that "tradition" is of as great authority as the Bible! They believed that God had given them the authority to change the Bible any way they pleased. By "tradition" they meant human teachings.

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today). Number two - it would make it much easier for the pagans to come into the church if the Christians met on the same day that the pagan world did.

It worked well. Pagans flocked in by the thousands. Satan's plan of compromise was doing its baleful work. The change was attempted gradually but many of the true hearted, loyal Christians were alarmed. They came to the leaders and wanted to know why they had dared tamper with the law of Almighty God! The church leaders knew this would happen - and they had an answer ready. It's a masterpiece. If a person doesn't know the bible well it sounds good.

The people were told that they were worshiping on Sunday now because Jesus rose from the dead on that day.

There's not even one verse in the Bible that tells us to do this, but that's what they were told. Isn't it amazing! Maybe you've even heard that yourself!

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

The Christians who would not compromise and dishonor God found themselves in a dilemma. Satan had worked things around so that you were forced to honor the pagan "day of the sun" or pay the penalty. Even after the Emperor's Sunday law, many Christians continued to honor and keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath that their Saviour had kept. God knew what was going on and had predicted that the man of sin would "think to change times and laws." Satan was about to pull off a world-wide hoax.

Bibles were forbidden by the priests. As the years went by, the new generations (without Bibles) would forget all about the Sabbath of the Lord.


Not only that - from time to time, great church councils were held. In nearly every one, the Sabbath which God had given as a memorial of His creation of the world was pressed down and Sunday was exalted. The pagan festival finally came to be regarded as the "Lord's day" (by Pope Sylvester, 314-337 A.D.) and the church leaders pronounced the Bible Sabbath a relic of the Jews, and those who honored it, in obedience to the fourth commandment of God, were pronounced to be "accursed." To rip out the commandment right in the center, put in Sun- day worship as a counterfeit, take the Bibles away, and command the whole world to accept it - this was the king of all swindles!

So these posts seemed oddly familiar to me, so I looked into it and found out this isn't the first time you posted it. You posted all of this stuff, nearly word for word, in an earlier topic about two years ago, as may be seen here:

The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

Are you saying that Sunday observance did not occur until after 336 AD? It's recorded history, saying what it says.

www.christianforums.com

(the only changes I see is, in the second post quoted, the addition of "you see" at the start and the addition of the last paragraph)

Back then, people corrected you on errors you made. And yet here you go again, posting the exact same thing without even taking the slightest effort to correct anything. Thus, these errors cannot be ascribed to simple ignorance, as you are re-posting them exactly despite people pointing out the problems. Not only that, people asked for evidence for several claims you made, which you did not provide. But now, with two years to have found it, you still aren't posting evidence, you're just making assertions without evidence. Granted, you may have just copied this stuff from someone else anyway, but to just post it all again, with no supporting evidence, as if you haven't already had people point out errors and ask for evidence, is rather problematic.

As this was already responded to back then, as someone can see at the link, there isn't too much to really say to it. But I still want to respond to a few things in particular.

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

Well, despite the claim of "ample evidence" you don't offer any, either in the initial post or the second one. Indeed, how about you offer evidence for this claim that "In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency". You've had two years to find it--would you share it with us?

You see, in the Council of Trent (1545 A.D.), the church leaders ruled that "tradition" is of as great authority as the Bible! They believed that God had given them the authority to change the Bible any way they pleased. By "tradition" they meant human teachings.

What in the world the declarations of a council from the 16th century is supposed to show about things that happened over a thousand years before, I am unsure. However, your claim that "by "tradition they meant human teachings" is simply false. They do not regard their Tradition (despite the same name, not really the same concept as a regular tradition) as "human teachings" but rather divinely inspired. Undoubtedly you, not being a Catholic, do not agree. But to claim they meant human teachings is simply absurd.

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things.

A fascinating claim that they worshipped the sun on Sunday and that it was a day of importance to pagans... but once you do not provide evidence for. Again, it was requested in that topic that you provide evidence of it, but you didn't. Can you show us what evidence you've found in the intervening two years that make you feel sure enough about this to re-post it?

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember.

I don't remember that, because it's not true. But do you not remember the fact you were corrected on this fact by multiple people (including myself, actually)? Constantine did not make Christianity become the state religion.

The claim that Constantine made Christianity the state religion is, admittedly, a popular misconception. It's not good when people post such things as fact, but at least they may simply be ignorant of the facts. However, you were corrected on this and still post the exact same error.

The pagan festival finally came to be regarded as the "Lord's day" (by Pope Sylvester, 314-337 A.D.) and the church leaders pronounced the Bible Sabbath a relic of the Jews, and those who honored it, in obedience to the fourth commandment of God, were pronounced to be "accursed."

Pope Sylvester may have seen it as the Lord's Day, but to say he started it is ridiculous. For example, Cyprian (a century beforehand) uses it to refer to Sunday in Epistle LVIII:

"For because the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord’s day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came, and spiritual circumcision was given to us."
Source: Philip Schaff: ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

 

[prodromos]

You see, in the Council of Trent (1545 A.D.), the church leaders ruled that "tradition" is of as great authority as the Bible! They believed that God had given them the authority to change the Bible any way they pleased. By "tradition" they meant human teachings.

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today). Number two - it would make it much easier for the pagans to come into the church if the Christians met on the same day that the pagan world did.

It worked well. Pagans flocked in by the thousands. Satan's plan of compromise was doing its baleful work. The change was attempted gradually but many of the true hearted, loyal Christians were alarmed. They came to the leaders and wanted to know why they had dared tamper with the law of Almighty God! The church leaders knew this would happen - and they had an answer ready. It's a masterpiece. If a person doesn't know the bible well it sounds good.

The people were told that they were worshiping on Sunday now because Jesus rose from the dead on that day.

There's not even one verse in the Bible that tells us to do this, but that's what they were told. Isn't it amazing! Maybe you've even heard that yourself!

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

The Christians who would not compromise and dishonor God found themselves in a dilemma. Satan had worked things around so that you were forced to honor the pagan "day of the sun" or pay the penalty. Even after the Emperor's Sunday law, many Christians continued to honor and keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath that their Saviour had kept. God knew what was going on and had predicted that the man of sin would "think to change times and laws." Satan was about to pull off a world-wide hoax.

Bibles were forbidden by the priests. As the years went by, the new generations (without Bibles) would forget all about the Sabbath of the Lord.


Not only that - from time to time, great church councils were held. In nearly every one, the Sabbath which God had given as a memorial of His creation of the world was pressed down and Sunday was exalted. The pagan festival finally came to be regarded as the "Lord's day" (by Pope Sylvester, 314-337 A.D.) and the church leaders pronounced the Bible Sabbath a relic of the Jews, and those who honored it, in obedience to the fourth commandment of God, were pronounced to be "accursed." To rip out the commandment right in the center, put in Sun- day worship as a counterfeit, take the Bibles away, and command the whole world to accept it - this was the king of all swindles!

This is of course, all fiction.
Please tell us, was the above all your work or did you just copy/paste from someone else's fiction?

 

[prodromos]

So these posts seemed oddly familiar to me, so I looked into it and found out this isn't the first time you posted it. You posted all of this stuff, nearly word for word, in an earlier topic about two years ago, as may be seen here:

The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

Are you saying that Sunday observance did not occur until after 336 AD? It's recorded history, saying what it says.

www.christianforums.com

(the only changes I see is, in the second post quoted, the addition of "you see" at the start and the addition of the last paragraph)

Back then, people corrected you on errors you made. And yet here you go again, posting the exact same thing without even taking the slightest effort to correct anything. Thus, these errors cannot be ascribed to simple ignorance, as you are re-posting them exactly despite people pointing out the problems. Not only that, people asked for evidence for several claims you made, which you did not provide. But now, with two years to have found it, you still aren't posting evidence, you're just making assertions without evidence. Granted, you may have just copied this stuff from someone else anyway, but to just post it all again, with no supporting evidence, as if you haven't already had people point out errors and ask for evidence, is rather problematic.

As this was already responded to back then, as someone can see at the link, there isn't too much to really say to it. But I still want to respond to a few things in particular.

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

Well, despite the claim of "ample evidence" you don't offer any, either in the initial post or the second one. Indeed, how about you offer evidence for this claim that "In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency". You've had two years to find it--would you share it with us?

You see, in the Council of Trent (1545 A.D.), the church leaders ruled that "tradition" is of as great authority as the Bible! They believed that God had given them the authority to change the Bible any way they pleased. By "tradition" they meant human teachings.

What in the world the declarations of a council from the 16th century is supposed to show about things that happened over a thousand years before, I am unsure. However, your claim that "by "tradition they meant human teachings" is simply false. They do not regard their Tradition (despite the same name, not really the same concept as a regular tradition) as "human teachings" but rather divinely inspired. Undoubtedly you, not being a Catholic, do not agree. But to claim they meant human teachings is simply absurd.

The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things.

A fascinating claim that they worshipped the sun on Sunday and that it was a day of importance to pagans... but once you do not provide evidence for. Again, it was requested in that topic that you provide evidence of it, but you didn't. Can you show us what evidence you've found in the intervening two years that make you feel sure enough about this to re-post it?

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember.

I don't remember that, because it's not true. But do you not remember the fact you were corrected on this fact by multiple people (including myself, actually)? Constantine did not make Christianity become the state religion.

The claim that Constantine made Christianity the state religion is, admittedly, a popular misconception. It's not good when people post such things as fact, but at least they may simply be ignorant of the facts. However, you were corrected on this and still post the exact same error.

The pagan festival finally came to be regarded as the "Lord's day" (by Pope Sylvester, 314-337 A.D.) and the church leaders pronounced the Bible Sabbath a relic of the Jews, and those who honored it, in obedience to the fourth commandment of God, were pronounced to be "accursed."

Pope Sylvester may have seen it as the Lord's Day, but to say he started it is ridiculous. For example, Cyprian (a century beforehand) uses it to refer to Sunday in Epistle LVIII:

"For because the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord’s day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came, and spiritual circumcision was given to us."
Source: Philip Schaff: ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

I found it on a web site "coursehero.com" where it had been submitted as a document titled, "When emperor constantine became a christian", which had been uploaded in November of last year by someone studying at Purdue University. The same person has also apparently uploaded documents from University of Nairobi.

 

[The Liturgist]

Which day does the Bible say the Passover is, because that the date that counts.

On the first day of the week following the crucifixion of our Lord on Good Friday.

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus says in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. It a lot things you wrote that not apart of the word of God.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 disagrees with you.

 

[The Liturgist]

Our liturgy is in Greek so we don't use English words. If we do have services in English then we use the transliteration of Pascha rather than the English word "Easter", just as we use "Theotokos" to refer to Mary rather than "Mother of God". It isn't wrong to use the English words, but we have been using the Greek terms for centuries, we understand them completely, and we have no real use for the English terms.

Once upon a time I accepted the narrative that "Easter" was pagan, but when I was living and working in Greece I had access to a wonderful library of old and rare lexicons for many languages and was able to do my own research. It was from that research I determined that "Easter" was more likely derived from the Old Teutonic German word for "resurrection". Unfortunately I did not document it as it was something I did out of personal interest (I was the network administrator for the Centre for the Greek Language in Thessaloniki), and as I am now back in Australia I no longer have access to the library.

Fascinating. Can you access it if you travel to Greece on vacation or pilgrimage? Because that could be a useful resource, and finding it would be a nice thing to do in addition to visiting Meteora or Patmos and especially Mount Athos.

 

[Bro.T]

2 Thessalonians 2:15 disagrees with you.

Luke 4: 14-16 this is what you should of been taught.

 

[Bro.T]

On the first day of the week following the crucifixion of our Lord on Good Friday.

Well it's written in (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So how you are you going to get three days and three night from Good Friday?

 

[Bro.T]

This is of course, all fiction.
Please tell us, was the above all your work or did you just copy/paste from someone else's fiction?

Well....thanks for reading it, your choice to research it it, or just don't believe it.

 

[Bro.T]

The NT account is not "tradition," it is the word of God written, which presents Jesus' death on Passover and his resurrection the day after the Sabbath, the first day of the week.

How, when Jesus risen before the first day of the week? Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday, when it was yet dark. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. Also understand God's days start at evening and end the next evening. Keep that in mind

 

[prodromos]

How, when Jesus risen before the first day of the week? Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday, when it was yet dark. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. Also understand God's days start at evening and end the next evening. Keep that in mind

It has been the 1st day of the week since sunset the previous day. The sun had not yet risen which is why it was still dark. Jesus had already risen, probably shortly after sunset on the eve of the Sabbath. We don't know exactly when, only that it was before sunrise.

I've already explained multiple times that "three days and three nights" is synecdoche. Your insistence that it is literal causes contradictory statements in the Scriptures. It also means that Christ's body would have begun to decay, which starts happening a little over 24 hours after death. That would break the prophecy that God would not let His Holy One see decay.

 

[Clare73]

How, when Jesus risen before the first day of the week? Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday, when it was yet dark. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. Also understand God's days start at evening and end the next evening. Keep that in mind

Precisely, and Sunday started at sundown on Saturday.
Anytime after sundown on Saturday being Sunday gave Jesus plenty of time to rise before sunrise on Sunday.

 

[Bro.T]

Precisely, and Sunday started at sundown on Saturday.
Anytime after sundown on Saturday being Sunday gave Jesus plenty of time to rise before sunrise on Sunday.

Jesus didn't rise Sunday night nor Sunday morning. Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday, when it was yet. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover.

 

[Bro.T]

It has been the 1st day of the week since sunset the previous day. The sun had not yet risen which is why it was still dark. Jesus had already risen, probably shortly after sunset on the eve of the Sabbath. We don't know exactly when, only that it was before sunrise.

I've already explained multiple times that "three days and three nights" is synecdoche. Your insistence that it is literal causes contradictory statements in the Scriptures. It also means that Christ's body would have begun to decay, which starts happening a little over 24 hours after death. That would break the prophecy that God would not let His Holy One see decay.

It's not synecdoche, that's why Jesus gave the example of Jonah prophets. You don't know and don't want to be taught, so you say it's synecdoche. But the Bible explain it all.

 

[prodromos]

It's not synecdoche, that's why Jesus gave the example of Jonah prophets. You don't know and don't want to be taught, so you say it's synecdoche. But the Bible explain it all.

The three days and three nights of Jonah are also synecdoche
Same thing in 1 Samuel 30:12

 

[prodromos]

Jesus didn't rise Sunday night nor Sunday morning. Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday, when it was yet. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover.

Odd how you claim one thing, then post Scripture which directly contradicts your claim as evidence of your claim.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus didn't rise Sunday night nor Sunday morning. Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday, when it was yet. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover.

The first day of the week, Sunday, began at Saturday sundown. That's a good 9-10 hours before daylight Sunday.