To all thick skulls: THERE IS NO PROOF!!!

[MQTA]

"16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments. "

Shakespeare never claimed his works to be truth. The Bible, however, is the Lord's word, and His word is infallible.

ps wht currency do australians / canadians use?

What does infallible mean?

 

[MQTA]

You two are the same person:

1) both lack the ability to correctly capitalise your names
2) somehow your blessings have been transferred to your main acount, after you specifically asked for it.
3) both have a name with a !-mark.
4) both somehow have joined in the same timeframe.

Coïncidence? I think not

5) neither use the book in which the chap:verse come from

Young Teen?

 

[Mistermystery]

5) neither use the book in which the chap:verse come from

Young Teen?

I only pointed those points out because I didn't know it was okay to post under 2 diffrent accounts, or to harlot out blessings from my other accounts. So I might go do that, or something.

 

[JohnR7]

What does infallible mean?

It means to be without error.

 

[MQTA]

watch out for those whoredoms

 

[MQTA]

It means to be without error.

Pr.4:7 "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

1 Cor.1:19 "For I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Ec.7:15 "All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness."

Ezek.33:18-19 "When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is l awful and right, he shall live thereby."

Ex.34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Ex.34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: ... And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Acts 9:7 "And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man."

Acts.22:9 "And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me."

2 Sam.6:6 "And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and God smote him."

1 Chr.13:9 "And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Childon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark, for the oxen stumbled. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him."

Lk.12:10 "But unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

Acts 13:39 "And by him all that believe are justified from all things."

Jn.20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father."

Jn.20:26-27 "And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side."

Jas.1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

Gen.22:1 "God did tempt Abraham."

Acts 15:10 "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

Ex.40:17 And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first day of the month, that the tabernacle was reared up.

Num.1:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying, Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls.

Acts 10:36 "The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ."

Lk.12:51 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

2 Tim.3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God...."

1 Cor.7:12.: "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord."

1 Cor.7:25 "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment...."

Ex.16:29 "The LORD hath given you the sabbath. ... abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." Ex.20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex.31:13-15 "Six days my work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." Ex.34:21 "Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest." Ex.35:2 "Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death." Lev.19:3, 30 "Ye shall ... keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God."


Mt.12:2 "Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day."


Col.2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon; or of the sabbath days."

Rom.15:33 "The God of Peace." 1 Cor.14:33 "God is not the author of confusion but of peace." 2 Th.3:16 "The Lord of peace himself give you peace always." Heb.13:20 "The God of peace ..."

Ex.15:3 "The Lord is a man of war." Ps.18:34 "He teacheth my hands to war." Ps.144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight."

Help me reconcile these.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

Other fundies, Arikay... other fundies...

Let's not insult the Christians...

Thank you.

Ghost

 

[JohnR7]

Help me reconcile these.

How much time do we have here? I am always ready for a in dept Bible study.

Pr.4:7 "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

1 Cor.1:19 "For I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

This is a referance to the wisdom of man, compared to the wisdom of God. His understanding of course is much greater than man's understanding.

Ec.7:15"All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness."

Ezek.33:18-19"When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is l awful and right, he shall live thereby."

One thing we need to understand here is that Solomon was very wise among men, but he did not have the mind of Christ. So that those who are least in the Kingdom of God are greater then Solomon.

Still, this is good advise. Jesus was nailed to cross because of his righteousness. The world will always seek to destroy the righteous. So, if you want to live a long life, then do not be overly wicked or overly righteous. If your overly wicked, you will perish in your wickedness. If your over righteous, you will be myrtered for your righteousness.

Do you want to keep going with these, or are people going to object that this is the wrong forum for this?

 

[Nathan Poe]

It means to be without error.

Always without error. Something infallible is not, and can never be, mistaken. That's a tall order.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Jesus rocks

But Odin can really play the Blues...

 

[lucaspa]

Well, I have news for the creationist: there is no proof. None. It will never happen. And by "proof" I don't mean "proof of evolution". I mean proof. Period. There is none. For anything. At all. None for evolution, none for creation. We are fallible humans, after all, and it is impossible to know something for certain.

There is proof for some statements. You've given it yourself later in the post:

This is why scientists develop theories, make predictions, and try to falsify their theories.

See that word "falsifies"? There is "proof". The "proved" statements in science are the negative statements:
The earth is not flat. Proved.
The earth is not 10,000 years old. Proved.
Protein is not the hereditary material. Proved.
The aether does not exist. Proved.
Each species was not specially created in present form. Proved.

Deductive logic -- the logic used by science -- can absolutely prove some statements to be wrong. True statements cannot have false consequences. When a statement has false consequences, it is proved to be false.

Creationism is a falsified scientific theory. It is wrong. It is false. Creationism has false consequences, which have been given in several threads.

What we have is a group of people -- creationists -- who refuse to accept that creationism has been shown to be false. But their agreement is not necessary. Einstein never agreed that strict determinism had been falsified. Too bad. It was. Some of the phlogiston chemists never agreed that phlogiston was falsified. Too bad. It was. Separate the people who advocate an idea from the idea!

Debates are about likelihood. Debates are about believability.

Debates are a sport! Forget debate. Debates are deliberately set up with questions where there is no definitive answer -- so that you can have the sport.

Ultimately, debates are about convincing the human mind.

No, debates are about deciding who the best debator is. Just like tennis matches are about deciding who the better tennis player is. Debates are not a means of determining truth. The discussion of this forum is centered on on determining the truth between creationism and evolution. And the truth is that creationism is falsified.

The debate of this forum is intended to center around whether evolutionism or creationism is a more likely explanation of human origins.

What is "evolutionism"?

I hope this satisfies you Follower of Christ and JohnR7.

Whether it satisfies them is one thing. It doesn't satisfy me because it is the wrong portrait of science!

 

[lucaspa]

So in summary, the truth cannot be seen through tainted glasses and myopic views. I will pray for you all tonight, but it is up to each and every one of you "free thinkers" to open up. Try going to your local church this Sunday and talk to people. You still have a chance.

And look around... the world is out there...

Evolution is not atheism! The truth can be seen, and the truth is that God created by evolution. God tells you that clearly in His second book -- Creation.

Saying that evolution is atheism is not the truth. So, perhaps you had better pray for yourself. See the second quote in my signature.

 

[lucaspa]

Gen: "43:22 And other money have we brought down in our hand to buy food: we know not who put our money in our sacks"

If you read this quote, you know notice that it mentions money. Money is factual, which means this statement is factual. And by logical extrapolation, the bible has to be factual.

Don't you see? If you truly accept Jesus' light into your heart, you will understand.

1. This does not follow. It is the same faulty logic that says if one part of the Bible is in error, all of it is in error. Read Xanti's thread. It is this faulty logic that that militant atheist uses to try to destroy Christianity. Claims are taken separately. That this statement mentions money does not mean either 1) the entire statement is factual or 2) that the entire Bible is literally true.

Let's take another statement from the Bible:
Luke 2:1 "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed." Taxation is factual, so we should take the statement as factual, right? BUT, not "all the world" was taxed, was it? Sioux, Zulus, and Laplanders were not taxed, were they? So the statement is not factual. By your logic, the Bible is not factual. Hoist on your own petard.

2. So, claims are separate.

3. There are different types of truth. It's not as simple as you try to make it.

 

[Nathan Poe]

1. This does not follow. It is the same faulty logic that says if one part of the Bible is in error, all of it is in error. Read Xanti's thread. It is this faulty logic that that militant atheist uses to try to destroy Christianity. Claims are taken separately. That this statement mentions money does not mean either 1) the entire statement is factual or 2) that the entire Bible is literally true.

Funny how the militant Christians do a better job of demolishing Christianity than the militant Atheists...

 

[Aggie]

See that word "falsifies"? There is "proof". The "proved" statements in science are the negative statements:
The earth is not flat. Proved.
The earth is not 10,000 years old. Proved.
Protein is not the hereditary material. Proved.
The aether does not exist. Proved.
Each species was not specially created in present form.

You know, the earth might really BE flat if we were all living in The Matrix.

I have some room to doubt just about everything, but the evidence for the earth being round is so overwhelming that at the moment I don't consider the alternative to really be a possibility.

And I feel the same way about evolution as I do about the earth being round. If the preponderance of evidence suddenly shifted sides, I would change my viewpoint, but I don't picture that happening anytime soon.

By the way, "inlovewithjesus!", you are a worthy successor to Orange. And don't assume that that's a compliment.

 

[Arikay]

But the name of the most recent common member to have made himself a troll puppet isn't follower of fundies. (although its more correct.)

Other fundies, Arikay... other fundies...

Let's not insult the Christians...

 

[Aggie]

By the way, I can't believe I missed the opportunity to make this joke when I was saying the earth might be flat if we were living in The Matrix:

There is no proof if there is no spoon.

 

[ProbePhage]

There is proof for some statements. You've given it yourself later in the post:
See that word "falsifies"? There is "proof". The "proved" statements in science are the negative statements:
The earth is not flat. Proved.
The earth is not 10,000 years old. Proved.
Protein is not the hereditary material. Proved.
The aether does not exist. Proved.
Each species was not specially created in present form. Proved.

Deductive logic -- the logic used by science -- can absolutely prove some statements to be wrong. True statements cannot have false consequences. When a statement has false consequences, it is proved to be false.

Creationism is a falsified scientific theory. It is wrong. It is false. Creationism has false consequences, which have been given in several threads.

I agree, that these things have been proven if things are as they seem. But the creationists will then play a quasi-solipsism card, the whole "what if God (blah blah blah)". And since God can do anything, they won't accept anything as proof.

Debates are a sport! Forget debate. Debates are deliberately set up with questions where there is no definitive answer -- so that you can have the sport.

No, debates are about deciding who the best debator is. Just like tennis matches are about deciding who the better tennis player is. Debates are not a means of determining truth. The discussion of this forum is centered on on determining the truth between creationism and evolution. And the truth is that creationism is falsified.

I disagree. Many people, myself included, enjoy debate as an opportunity to support what they feel is correct and attack the notions their opponents have been holding in their minds that they feel are incorrect. They enjoy opening the minds of other people. Although I agree that formal "set-up" debates are designed for sport and for determining the better debater (especially high school/college style, which forces you to debate both sides of a given topic in different rounds).

At any rate, I think you're kind of missing the point here; perhaps I am guilty of wording it improperly. Of course everyone has their own personal reasons as to why they partake in debate. I was talking about what a debater is trying to do, the "mechanics of the sport", to use your analogy. And his arguments are supposed to show that his side is more believable.

What is "evolutionism"?

Evolutionism is the result of my hands typing before my mind can proofread.

Whether it satisfies them is one thing. It doesn't satisfy me because it is the wrong portrait of science!

Really? Your post seemed to indicate that my portrait of science was correct but then I failed to apply it. You seemed more concerned with my having a wrong portrait of debate.

If I understand correctly, you are a scientist, and if indeed I have portrayed science wrong feel free to correct me. I just didn't see you correcting me at all on that subject in your post.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's amazing what a feisty creature the creationist is. When you have him completely backed into a corner, all his arguments destroyed and yours triumphant, he still comes back with the catch-all "well I haven't seen any PROOF!!!"

Well, I have news for the creationist: there is no proof. None. It will never happen. And by "proof" I don't mean "proof of evolution". I mean proof. Period. There is none. For anything. At all. None for evolution, none for creation. We are fallible humans, after all, and it is impossible to know something for certain.

Given that there is no way anything can ever be proven, why do we even have a debate? If, as you imply when a demand for proof is your only argument, the purpose of a debate is to acquire proof, and proof is an impossibility, what are we even debating about?

Debates are about likelihood. Debates are about believability. Ultimately, debates are about convincing the human mind. The debate of this forum is intended to center around whether evolutionism or creationism is a more likely explanation of human origins. Not whether evolution or creationism can be aboslutely proven.

In these debates, evidence is invoked. Keep in mind that evidence is not proof. Evidence points in a direction, that is all. When enough evidence points to something, we realize that it is more likely.

Now, the thing about evidence is that it can point to several things at once. Creationists have brought up this point with their "interpretation" argument. But this is where science comes in. When we have enough evidence to point to something, we need to make sure we aren't just interpreting the evidence wrong. So we make predictions based on what we think the evidence points to. As in: "We think the evidence points to X. Well, if X, then we can logically predict that certain things will be true". Then we go searching for those certain things. If they aren't true, the theory is falsified. If they are true, then that is further evidence for X.

So you see, in science, "evidence" is more complicated than just being an issue of interpretation. The scientific method was devised specifically with the mimization of personal biases and interpretations in mind. This is why scientists develop theories, make predictions, and try to falsify their theories. If the theories withstand the tests, they gain more acceptance. If they don't, then they are modified according to the new findings (or in cases of extreme contradiction, the theories may be discarded altogether).

The theory of evolution happens to be very well-tested and refined over the past century. This is why evolution wins the debate. It is much, much more likely than creationism, as multitudes of evidence and successful predictions clearly show.

I hope this satisfies you Follower of Christ and JohnR7.

If proof can take a hike and subordinate itself to evidence; can evidence take a hike and subordinate itself to faith?

Or do you scientific methodists make up the rules as you go?

 

[Aman777]

Evolution is not atheism! The truth can be seen, and the truth is that God created by evolution. God tells you that clearly in His second book -- Creation.

Saying that evolution is atheism is not the truth. So, perhaps you had better pray for yourself. See the second quote in my signature.

Dear Paul, Long time no see. Evolution is a Lie, a provable Lie. God tells us He created and the False ToE tells us we evolved from other creatures. Genesis 2:4-7 tells us man was "formed of the dust of the ground" on the SAME day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos, long BEFORE any other living creature.

I support what I post with the agreement of Scripture, Science, and History. The ToE is WRONG, and needs to be corrected since it is offending many little ones who believe in Jesus by force teaching LIES to our inncent children in the Public Schools of the United States. Evols should be ashamed of their evil thinking.

In Love,
Aman