To all Mormons

[gort]

Chaucer quote:

Hello Daneel,

For me that is not the prime question. The question is how do you believe and why???

Yes I believe that God is behind the Bible - with a very wide latitude allowing for human invention.(btw, donkeys don't talk). I even believe that I have received personal and heavenly knowledge (inspiration) that the Bible contains the gospel. So for me - deep down in my soul - I KNOW the Bible contains the gospel. But that is internal knowledge. It is not transferable. The minute I project that knowledge outward, it is no longer a bankable comodity, it is or becomes faith - just faith. That is, no other person can bank on my knowledge/faith.

Hello,

I agree with what you say. No other person can bank on my knowledge/faith and neither can I change another persons heart.

So, when we talk about the Bible saying this or proving that - nonsense - it doesn't prove anything. 1) It is not inerrant in its present form, and 2) it is subject to interpretation.

It is way too egotistical to imagine that one's interpretation of the Bible is the one and only interpretation and then label everything else false.

There is one thing that cannot be divided and can only be taken (given) as absolute Truth, which harmonizes with what the Bible says (for believers) and that is that Christ Jesus died for all men, for those that believe on Him, to be the propitiation for our sins, to make us cleansed and righteous and Holy before God. All those that believe and have faith in the work of Christ Jesus on the Cross.

For all men.

NOt a heaven for 144,000, and a paradise earth for the rest, or a heaven divided into different worlds and different levels, some able to be in the presence of the Father, and some not able. Simply because of membership to a select group.

So, do we stick with our perception of Gods plan? Or do we try to understand from Gods perception of man, his sin, and mans need for redemption. And Gods desire that all become saved through HIs beloved Son.


Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me.

One way, one truth.


<><

 

[Rescued One]

I posted:

I've been thinking about your question, fatboys! Thanks for asking!



We were created for God's pleasure and glory. Isn't that awesome?

[bible]Isaiah 43:1-7[/bible]

Have you ever created something----a song or a piece of furniture or a work of art? Doesn't the act of creating give you pleasure? I think God enjoyed creating us; He found pleasure in doing it and He finds pleasure in us and our appreciation of all that He has done for us.

[bible]James 1:17[/bible]


[bible]Psalms 100:1-5[/bible]

To which you responded:

FB: You know what really bugs me is that you hammer us with God was once a man, and say God is nothing like man, yet you give human attributes to God and that is okay. Is God human?

You're kidding, aren't you? :o

Which came first, God or man? God is not like man. Man was created in God's image: we are able to reason, and to make moral choices, unlike the animals, yet like God. We bear a resemblance to Him in certain ways. Christians are being conformed to His image. The attributes of God are written in the Bible.

 

[Rescued One]

It is way too egotistical to imagine that one's interpretation of the Bible is the one and only interpretation and then label everything else false.

It's not egotistical to know and declare truth. It's sad that you think you have to depend on men's interpretation to know truth!

John 16
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

John 14
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him....

 

[MormonFriend]

....
Which came first, God or man? God is not like man. Man was created in God's image:

Why did you leave out "after our likeness?"

¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Genesis 1:26

If we are in the likeness of God, then God is like us too. Who came first is irrelevant, except that the pattern was likened to God.

And speaking of "patterned", the beat goes on.

¶ And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; Genesis 5:3

(Interesting that image and likeness are reversed here.)

 

[Chaucer]

It's not egotistical to know and declare truth. It's sad that you think you have to depend on men's interpretation to know truth!

I wonder if you even seen the irony in your post. You interpret the Bible, maintain that your interpretation is absolute and then snicker in "sadness" that other interpretations aren't as godly as your interpretation.

 

[Rescued One]

I wonder if you even seen the irony in your post. You interpret the Bible, maintain that your interpretation is absolute and then snicker in "sadness" that other interpretations aren't as godly as your interpretation.

What??? :o Snicker in sadness???

Snicker means to "laugh in a covert or partly suppressed manner." I'm not snickering at all. How can you accuse me of such an uncaring attitude? If you really knew me, you wouldn't accuse me of that. I'm not here for the jollies. I genuinely care about people. And it hurts that you would say that about me....but then I guess it's because you don't even know me.

 

[Rescued One]

Accidental double post!

 

[Rescued One]

Why did you leave out "after our likeness?"

¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Genesis 1:26

If we are in the likeness of God, then God is like us too. Who came first is irrelevant, except that the pattern was likened to God.

Wrong answer. God is not like sinful man. He never sinned. He was not created. He always existed. He created man, but we must become Christians and let Him conform us to His image.

¶ And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; Genesis 5:3

(Interesting that image and likeness are reversed here.)

Adam's children were physically like him. Adam didn't create them; he knew Eve and his children resulted from that intimacy.

 

[MormonFriend]

Wrong answer. God is not like sinful man. He never sinned. He was not created. He always existed. He created man, but we must become Christians and let Him conform us to His image.

Then by your perspective, I guess we were not created in His likeness as the Bible states!

He created us with the capacity to become like Him. We must become Christlike, and perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
What you stated about God and sin goes without saying. I said in my post: "Who came first is irrelevant, except that the pattern was likened to God." God is the Standard for us to emulate.

 

[Rescued One]

Then by your perspective, I guess we were not created in His likeness as the Bible states!

He created us with the capacity to become like Him. We must become Christlike, and perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
What you stated about God and sin goes without saying. I said in my post: "Who came first is irrelevant, except that the pattern was likened to God." God is the Standard for us to emulate.

No, you can not comprehend what I said.

"Unless you believe, you will not understand."
Saint Augustine

 

[skylark1]

I realize that this wasn't addressed to me, but I feel that I must respond.

Then by your perspective, I guess we were not created in His likeness as the Bible states!

He created us with the capacity to become like Him. We must become Christlike, and perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.

You do not need to become like someone in every way in order to be like them. God created us in his likeness ... that doesn't mean that he created beings who are like him in every way.

What you stated about God and sin goes without saying. I said in my post: "Who came first is irrelevant, except that the pattern was likened to God." God is the Standard for us to emulate.

Whoa Nelly!!!!! Are you actually saying that it doesn't matter whether we say that we are made in the image of God, or if we claim that he is made in the image of us?

 

[RufustheRed]

What's your point about the theif [sic]?
Sven

Good eye Sven. Do you think he feels sufficiently embarrasseded?

Thanks, but that wasn't the object of asking the question. If you will take note, I asked FatBoys what his point was about. If that embarrassed him, I'm not aware of it as he did not respond. If you believe that my purpose for that post was to embarrass him, you are sadly mistaken. Hopefully, he will choose to in some meaningful dialogue about this. BTW, when you quote from another person or source, don't you usually use the proper grammatical notation to emphasize that you are quoting EXACTLY what the other person stated? The only question I asked was what the object of his question.

It appears to me (I know that this is subjective, but I feel that I should at least mention it) that you are attempting to distract from any dialogue that is promulgated by brushing it aside as a personal attack or some other feeble excuse that doesn't quite meet your criteron of how a debate or discussion should be conducted. Again, if I'm wrong, I apologize, but that is the message I am receiving on this end.

Sven

 

[Frankie]

I realize that this wasn't addressed to me, but I feel that I must respond.
You do not need to become like someone in every way in order to be like them. God created us in his likeness ... that doesn't mean that he created beings who are like him in every way.

I agree with this and had the same thought. People are always telling me how my son is "just like me". Does that mean that he is like me in every way? no. He is a male, I am a female. He has a masculine hair cut, I do not. He has muscular arms, I do not. He likes to work on cars with his dad, I do not. How is he like me.... well, he loves to laugh at almost anything and crack jokes at almost everything. He has the same hair color as me and freckles just like me, He enjoys things to the fullest and can find the humor in almost any situation. In those ways he is "just like me" and as people have said many many times "he is the spitting image of me" because of the things I mentioned above. However, he is a man, I will NEVER be a man, he has interests that I will never also have. While my son is like me in many ways, he will never be like me in every way.

This is how it is with God. While we are like Him in many ways, we will never be like God in every way. We are not of the same nature, we are not the same "creature". God is our creator, we are His creation.

Whoa Nelly!!!!! Are you actually saying that it doesn't matter whether we say that we are made in the image of God, or if we claim that he is made in the image of us?

Whoa nelly is right!!!!! How can anyone claim that this doesn't matter? It is the very foundation of the fact that God came first and we are His creation. He has always been and we have not. To say that it doesn't matter whether God or man came first is to dismiss the almighty greatness that is God!

Frankie

 

[Fit4Christ]

Ran,

I noticed you received no responses while I was gone. Perhaps others realized, as I did after the first 2 verses, that you were just pulling verses out of the air without reading further into the Bible. But, wanting to keep my word, I'll address 3 here and call it good. I was only going to do the first 2, but my kids love the Veggie Tales story of Jonah, so I'll include that one as well. I'll re-post all your verses in case anyone else wants to address the remaining ones.

Moses and Joshua prophesied that all the Canaanites would be driven out. (Deuteronomy 7:1-2; Joshua 3:10)

They were not. (Joshua 16:10)


Jeremiah prophesied that Zedekiah would die in peace. (Jeremiah 34:5)

He did not. (Jeremiah 52:10-11)


Isaiah prophesied that Damascus would be completely destroyed. (Isaiah 17:1)

It was not – it still exists.


Johan prophesied that Nineveh would be overthrown. (Johan 3:4)

It wasn’t. (Jonah 3:10)


I also have verses that indicate that prophets are not infallible.

Isaiah 28:7

But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.


James wrote that Elijah was “a man subject to passions as we are…” (James 5:17)

Ran: Moses and Joshua prophesied that all the Canaanites would be driven out. (Deuteronomy 7:1-2; Joshua 3:10)

They were not. (Joshua 16:10)

F4C: Ahh, but they were. (Joshua 21:43-45). The Canaanites in Joshua 16:10 were conquered and forced into slave labor.

Ran: Jeremiah prophesied that Zedekiah would die in peace. (Jeremiah 34:5)

He did not. (Jeremiah 52:10-11)

F4C: He did not because, if you had bothered to read just a little further in verse 17, "Therefore, this is what the LORD says: You have not obeyed me; you have not proclaimed freedom for your fellow countrymen. So I now proclaim 'freedom' for you, declares the LORD -'freedom' to fall by the sword, plague and famine. I will make you abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth." (emphasis mine) Obviously, Zedekiah did not keep up his end of the bargain and he paid the price for it.

Ran: Johan (sic) prophesied that Nineveh would be overthrown. (Johan (sic) 3:4)

It wasn’t. (Jonah 3:10)

F4C: It wasn't because, if you had actually read the verse 10 that you quoted, the people of Ninevah had repented and turned from their evil ways (vs. 8-9). In verse 10, God "saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened." (emphasis mine)

What an awesome God, wouldn't you say? He has compassion for those who turn from evil, just like He has compassion for those who follow other gods or misguided self-proclaimed prophets. Even when Jonah was upset that God didn't destroy Ninevah, God had mercy on Jonah when Jonah was furious with God's compassion. Try reading the whole book, it's a great story. Or rent the Veggie Tales movie and watch it with your kids.

I imagine the rest of your quotes are like this, but after chasing around 4 kids for 10 days, I'm beat, need to unpack, and don't have time for these ridiculous accusations about false prophecies in the Bible. If you really, truly need to have the rest of your quotes validated, then maybe you could start a new thread and invite others to respond.

 

[Rescued One]

Then by your perspective, I guess we were not created in His likeness as the Bible states!

He created us with the capacity to become like Him. We must become Christlike, and perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect.
What you stated about God and sin goes without saying. I said in my post: "Who came first is irrelevant, except that the pattern was likened to God." God is the Standard for us to emulate.

God is the Creator for us to Worship.

Shall we discuss His image? Man was created in the image of God. IOW, man has characteristics like God.

[bible]Ephesians 4:23-24[/bible]

[bible]2 Corinthians 4:4[/bible] Humans don't look alike, so I guess it isn't a physical image.

[bible]Colossians 1:15[/bible]We aren't invisible, so in that respect our image isn't like God's.

[bible]Colossians 3:9-10[/bible] Maybe this verse is referring to sanctification, eh? God is invisible, so this image is not physical.

[bible]1 Corinthians 2:11[/bible]Could our spirits be the location of our image of God? Does it have to do with our ability to reason?

[bible]James 3:9-10[/bible]All humans have the ability to reason.

[bible]Ecclesiastes 3:11[/bible]

Like God, we can make moral judgments, but sometimes people have a distorted view of right and wrong. It is in our inner being, not in the outward man, that we bear His image. We are to be conformed to God's image more and more. Humanists can not do this. People know what is right, but do what is wrong.

[bible]John 15:5[/bible]

[bible]Hebrews 10:14[/bible]

[bible]Romans 8:9[/bible]

 

[Ran77]

[

Perhaps others realized, as I did after the first 2 verses, that you were just pulling verses out of the air without reading further into the Bible.

I notice that you included a little tude in your response. What purpose do you feel that serves?

Ran: Moses and Joshua prophesied that all the Canaanites would be driven out. (Deuteronomy 7:1-2; Joshua 3:10)

They were not. (Joshua 16:10)

F4C: Ahh, but they were. (Joshua 21:43-45). The Canaanites in Joshua 16:10 were conquered and forced into slave labor.

Dueteronomy 7: 1-2

1. When the Lord they God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2. And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them:

Joshua 3: 10

10. And Joshua said, Herby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.

Joshua 16: 10

10. And they drave not out the Canaanites that dwelt in Gezer; but the Canaanites dwell among the Ephraimites unto this day, and serve under tribute.


I stated that all the Canaanites would be driven out. Your reply is that they were - they were conquered and made slaves.

First of all, being driven out and being made slaves is not the same. Your own statement contradicts itself.

Secondly, they were not driven out. Without fail they will be driven out means that none, without exception, will continue to live in that land. It is this prophecy that Joshua states will be proof of the living God.

Ran: Jeremiah prophesied that Zedekiah would die in peace. (Jeremiah 34:5)

He did not. (Jeremiah 52:10-11)

F4C: He did not because, if you had bothered to read just a little further in verse 17, "Therefore, this is what the LORD says: You have not obeyed me; you have not proclaimed freedom for your fellow countrymen. So I now proclaim 'freedom' for you, declares the LORD -'freedom' to fall by the sword, plague and famine. I will make you abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth." (emphasis mine) Obviously, Zedekiah did not keep up his end of the bargain and he paid the price for it.

More attitude? Let it be as your "Christian" heart so dictates.

Jeremiah 34 clearly lists this as a prophecy from God. It places no qualifiers or restrictions upon the prophecy. It states that it will happen. As stated this prophecy did not come true.

Since God knows all things why do you suppose He would offer this prophecy to Jeremiah - if He knew that Zedekiah would fail his part of the covenant?

Your comments explain why God revoked His earlier promise, but they do not refute the fact that the prophecy failed to come about.

Ran: Johan (sic) prophesied that Nineveh would be overthrown. (Johan (sic) 3:4)

It wasn’t. (Jonah 3:10)

F4C: It wasn't because, if you had actually read the verse 10 that you quoted, the people of Ninevah had repented and turned from their evil ways (vs. 8-9). In verse 10, God "saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened." (emphasis mine)

And still more attitude.

Jonah 3: 4

4. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineven shall be overthrown.

In forty days Nineven shall be overthrown. There are no qualifiers. This prophecy failed as it was stated. Once again, your comments explain why God revoked His earlier promise, but they do not refute the fact that the prophecy failed to come about.

The actions of Jonah in chapter four gives further evidence that the prophecy he delivered did not include the possibility of mercy on God's part. It gives reasonable weight to the concept that a prophet of God might inject a bit of their own personality and views into the prophecies they deliver. However, that is another discussion altogether.

He has compassion for those who turn from evil, just like He has compassion for those who follow other gods or misguided self-proclaimed prophets.

How deliciously ironic that after discussing Jonah that you would direct the notion of misguided prophets to me. Very amusing indeed.

Even when Jonah was upset that God didn't destroy Ninevah, God had mercy on Jonah when Jonah was furious with God's compassion.

Sounds as though Jonah was rather misguided.

Try reading the whole book, it's a great story.

Ah, more of that attitude. Do you feel that this in some way strengthen's your arguments?

My perspective on your post is that you have contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next and failed to provide an effective counter-argument against my claim. I don't believe that either the superior image of yourself you are trying to project or the insinuations that I lack the ability to read with comprehension carry much weight under these circumstances.

I imagine the rest of your quotes are like this, but after chasing around 4 kids for 10 days, I'm beat, need to unpack, and don't have time for these ridiculous accusations about false prophecies in the Bible. If you really, truly need to have the rest of your quotes validated, then maybe you could start a new thread and invite others to respond.

Wow, that is a lot of attitude. You really were able to pack a great deal of it in there. Congrats.

Is there any part of this that wasn't crafted in such a manner as to attempt to degrade me?

Wait, the comment about chasing the kids for 10 days seems bereft of condenscention. If you don't mind my critique, I think its out of place. A paragraph composed entirely on condenscending comments indicates that you have developed contempt for others into an art form. Personally, I feel that to reach a masters level you will need to slip demeaning comments into mostly innocent conversaton in a subtle manner - thereby giving you plausible deniability.

 

[Fit4Christ]

[


I notice that you included a little tude in your response. What purpose do you feel that serves?





Dueteronomy 7: 1-2

1. When the Lord they God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2. And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them:

Joshua 3: 10

10. And Joshua said, Herby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.

Joshua 16: 10

10. And they drave not out the Canaanites that dwelt in Gezer; but the Canaanites dwell among the Ephraimites unto this day, and serve under tribute.


I stated that all the Canaanites would be driven out. Your reply is that they were - they were conquered and made slaves.

First of all, being driven out and being made slaves is not the same. Your own statement contradicts itself.

Secondly, they were not driven out. Without fail they will be driven out means that none, without exception, will continue to live in that land. It is this prophecy that Joshua states will be proof of the living God.





More attitude? Let it be as your "Christian" heart so dictates.

Jeremiah 34 clearly lists this as a prophecy from God. It places no qualifiers or restrictions upon the prophecy. It states that it will happen. As stated this prophecy did not come true.

Since God knows all things why do you suppose He would offer this prophecy to Jeremiah - if He knew that Zedekiah would fail his part of the covenant?

Your comments explain why God revoked His earlier promise, but they do not refute the fact that the prophecy failed to come about.





And still more attitude.

Jonah 3: 4

4. And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineven shall be overthrown.

In forty days Nineven shall be overthrown. There are no qualifiers. This prophecy failed as it was stated. Once again, your comments explain why God revoked His earlier promise, but they do not refute the fact that the prophecy failed to come about.

The actions of Jonah in chapter four gives further evidence that the prophecy he delivered did not include the possibility of mercy on God's part. It gives reasonable weight to the concept that a prophet of God might inject a bit of their own personality and views into the prophecies they deliver. However, that is another discussion altogether.





How deliciously ironic that after discussing Jonah that you would direct the notion of misguided prophets to me. Very amusing indeed.





Sounds as though Jonah was rather misguided.





Ah, more of that attitude. Do you feel that this in some way strengthen's your arguments?

My perspective on your post is that you have contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next and failed to provide an effective counter-argument against my claim. I don't believe that either the superior image of yourself you are trying to project or the insinuations that I lack the ability to read with comprehension carry much weight under these circumstances.





Wow, that is a lot of attitude. You really were able to pack a great deal of it in there. Congrats.

Is there any part of this that wasn't crafted in such a manner as to attempt to degrade me?

Wait, the comment about chasing the kids for 10 days seems bereft of condenscention. If you don't mind my critique, I think its out of place. A paragraph composed entirely on condenscending comments indicates that you have developed contempt for others into an art form. Personally, I feel that to reach a masters level you will need to slip demeaning comments into mostly innocent conversaton in a subtle manner - thereby giving you plausible deniability.

Ran - True to form, I figured you would provide a response like this. Based on your pasts posts, including ones I have been directly involved in, I chose to respond this way. I was following the "as others would do to you" commandment. I have seen you respond in a similar manner to other posters, so I assumed this is how you wanted to be treated. If my assumption was wrong, then I completely apologize for any comments that upset or offended you and ask for your forgiveness.

Based on your response, I have to ask - do you not believe God is a compassionate God? I get a certain impression from your words, but I do not want to put words in your mouth, as I have learned that that upsets you as well, so I'll let you respond. Just what was it that you were intending to prove by posting these? What was your point?

I happen to believe God is compassionate and will change His mind based on the actions of His children (in the case of Jonah, repentance). At the same time, if one does not follow His word, then they are to face His wrath (as with Zedekiah). God promised the Israelites they would be delivered into the promised land, then they sinned against God so He made them wander the desert for 40 years. Do you or don't you think God should punish those who do not follow His instructions?

If your 20-year old son is hooked on drugs, is stealing, and doing other bad things to disrupt your household, would you keep on letting him live with you and doing those things or would you threaten to kick him out? If facing eviction, he turns his life around and becomes a model citizen, would you still kick him out? I would hope not. If you tell your kids that you'll take them to the park to play after dinner if they eat all their dinner, and they don't, do you still take them to the park? I would hope not. If you were a fair, loving, and compassionate father, I don't believe you'd do either. That is the same with my God, the one true God, and the God of the Bible. I sinned against you by making those remarks, I have asked God's forgiveness, and because of His compassion (through the blood of Jesus Christ), I am forgiven.

 

[Ran77]

Ran - True to form, I figured you would provide a response like this.

What way would that be? Responding to your points with supported statements of my own? Or is it pointing out the vitrolic portion of your post?

Then the second question would be: why wouldn't/shouldn't I respond like that? Is there something wrong with either manner?

Based on your pasts posts, including ones I have been directly involved in, I chose to respond this way. I was following the "as others would do to you" commandment.

Where is that commandment located?

I have seen you respond in a similar manner to other posters, so I assumed this is how you wanted to be treated. If my assumption was wrong, then I completely apologize for any comments that upset or offended you and ask for your forgiveness.

I asked you what purpose the vitrolic statements served (in essence why include them) and your response is: because I thought you wanted it that way.

Is that really your motivation? I have to say my reaction to the statement is that it is not true. I would suspect that your motivation is to give me a dose of what you feel I am dishing out. Which is not the same as responding to me in the manner in which you think I prefer. It has more to do with giving me something unpleasant so that I will learn a lesson from it.

However, if your explanation is truthful I can only say that you have some interesting thinking to arrive at that logic.


Irregardless, post that way if you want. If you believe that it upsets and offends me - then knock yourself out. Feel free to generate a post that, in your mind, will send me screaming through the halls with frustration.

Based on your response, I have to ask - do you not believe God is a compassionate God? I get a certain impression from your words, but I do not want to put words in your mouth, as I have learned that that upsets you as well, so I'll let you respond. Just what was it that you were intending to prove by posting these? What was your point?

In post #30 you said:

You make a very strong accusation. Care to provide some references so we know what you are talking about??


I have provided the references you requested and responded to your comments. My reason for making the statement you responded to has already been posted on this thread.

In the sequence of: I make a statement, you ask me to support it, and I support it - asking me my point just takes us back to my statement. Is there a real need to do that?

I happen to believe God is compassionate and will change His mind based on the actions of His children (in the case of Jonah, repentance). At the same time, if one does not follow His word, then they are to face His wrath (as with Zedekiah). God promised the Israelites they would be delivered into the promised land, then they sinned against God so He made them wander the desert for 40 years. Do you or don't you think God should punish those who do not follow His instructions?

If your 20-year old son is hooked on drugs, is stealing, and doing other bad things to disrupt your household, would you keep on letting him live with you and doing those things or would you threaten to kick him out? If facing eviction, he turns his life around and becomes a model citizen, would you still kick him out? I would hope not. If you tell your kids that you'll take them to the park to play after dinner if they eat all their dinner, and they don't, do you still take them to the park? I would hope not. If you were a fair, loving, and compassionate father, I don't believe you'd do either. That is the same with my God, the one true God, and the God of the Bible.

Is there a point to this?


I don't see any rebutal to my statements. In that case, as soon as you have had your chance for any parting comments we should be done here.

 

[Fit4Christ]

What way would that be? Responding to your points with supported statements of my own? Or is it pointing out the vitrolic portion of your post?

Then the second question would be: why wouldn't/shouldn't I respond like that? Is there something wrong with either manner?





Where is that commandment located?





I asked you what purpose the vitrolic statements served (in essence why include them) and your response is: because I thought you wanted it that way.

Is that really your motivation? I have to say my reaction to the statement is that it is not true. I would suspect that your motivation is to give me a dose of what you feel I am dishing out. Which is not the same as responding to me in the manner in which you think I prefer. It has more to do with giving me something unpleasant so that I will learn a lesson from it.

However, if your explanation is truthful I can only say that you have some interesting thinking to arrive at that logic.


Irregardless, post that way if you want. If you believe that it upsets and offends me - then knock yourself out. Feel free to generate a post that, in your mind, will send me screaming through the halls with frustration.





In post #30 you said:

You make a very strong accusation. Care to provide some references so we know what you are talking about??


I have provided the references you requested and responded to your comments. My reason for making the statement you responded to has already been posted on this thread.

In the sequence of: I make a statement, you ask me to support it, and I support it - asking me my point just takes us back to my statement. Is there a real need to do that?





Is there a point to this?


I don't see any rebutal to my statements. In that case, as soon as you have had your chance for any parting comments we should be done here.

Ran,

I find your responses to many posters to be rude and condescending. You have been called on it before, you acknowledged your behavior, and said you would change. I am still waiting to see that change. I acknowledged the tone of my post was not proper, apologized to you, asked for and received forgiveness from God, and now I am ready to move on. Are you?

The issue I have with your responses to my answers is the same that the lds SCREAM at us Christians about. To paraphrase one lds response in another thread "OUT OF CONTEXT! OUT OF CONTEXT! OUT OF CONTEXT!". I tried to get that point across with your verses on Jonah and Zedekiah, that there were other verses to support the prophecy I'll admit my response was not complete on the Canaanite issue.

You still did not answer my question on whether or not you thought God is a compassionate God?

Based on your response, I have to ask - do you not believe God is a compassionate God? I get a certain impression from your words, but I do not want to put words in your mouth, as I have learned that that upsets you as well, so I'll let you respond.

If you do, then you'll have to allow that He can change His mind based on the behavior of His people. If you don't, then we are all in a heap of trouble. We cannot be saved from our own sin. Without His compassion, there would have been no Jesus to die for us and not one person (save Jesus, of course) could ever have been saved.

If you are going to take your verses and stand them in the field all by themselves on their own merits and not consider the context in which they were made, or be open to the possibility that there are other verses to support them, then there really is no need to debate this further. However, if you are willing to consider other passages to support these, I will make another attempt to explain them.

It's your call - continue or drop it?

 

[Ran77]

You have been called on it before, you acknowledged your behavior, and said you would change.

CFR

I am still waiting to see that change.

If this is true it will be an easy task for you to produce one, a single, post that I have made in the last two weeks that falls outside the scope of an improved me. Other than my responding to your improper comments.

I acknowledged the tone of my post was not proper, apologized to you, asked for and received forgiveness from God, and now I am ready to move on. Are you?

I'm curious. You talk about God forgiving you for your improper tone. It sounds as though you are saying that since you are forgiven your trespass that it should no longer be a matter of discussion? Is this what you are saying?

If it is, I wonder why you would be so focused on my past mistakes. It seems to me that the appropriate action for a person of that thought would be to move on - irregardless of who made the mistake. In the last few posts I have responded to what you have just said while you continue to bring forth past actions on my part. Do you find that fair and appropriate?


Am I ready to move on? Definately.

The issue I have with your responses to my answers is the same that the lds SCREAM at us Christians about. To paraphrase one lds response in another thread "OUT OF CONTEXT! OUT OF CONTEXT! OUT OF CONTEXT!". I tried to get that point across with your verses on Jonah and Zedekiah, that there were other verses to support the prophecy I'll admit my response was not complete on the Canaanite issue.

Yes, context is very good.

For instance, in this thread someone stated that if an LDS prophet made a prophecy that did not come true that marked them as a false prophet. Then I responded that the same could be said for prophets in the Bible.

If read in context my comments are intended to ensure that the same criteria is applied to the LDS prophets as is applied to Biblical prophets.

Your comments about compassion, and God changing His mind, should be directed to the person that believes a prophecy that does not come about is evidence of a false prophet. I used that misconception as the baseline for my argument - to point out that the criteria indicts Bible prophets as well.


So, within the proper context: with what part of my argument do you find fault?

You still did not answer my question on whether or not you thought God is a compassionate God?

That is right - I did not answer it.

On your part, you have not answered whether it is supported responses, or pointing out the vitrolic portion of your post that you expected from me. You also have not answered what is wrong with either of those. You have not answered where the commandment you cited was located.

It appears that you leave more questions unanswered than I do. Whatever point you are attempting to make by mentioning this I guess it applies triply to you.

If you do, then you'll have to allow that He can change His mind based on the behavior of His people.

Is God all-knowing? If He is, then why didn't He make allowances for their repentance when He issued the prophecy?

If you are going to take your verses and stand them in the field all by themselves on their own merits and not consider the context in which they were made, or be open to the possibility that there are other verses to support them, then there really is no need to debate this further.

Shouldn't this be directed to the person who originally offered this insight into false prophets and false prophecies?

However, if you are willing to consider other passages to support these, I will make another attempt to explain them.

It's your call - continue or drop it?

Ok. Drop it.