Tithing?

[Hank77]

Jesus, while on earth, watched the offering plate and noticed who gave and how much. Then He remarked "For they all put in from their abundance, but she from her need has put in everything she had - all she had to live on.” (Mark 12:41-44).

Or do we think He let the poor widow put in everything she had without blessing her as promised in the OT? - "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." Mal 3:10

The widow wasn't giving tithes, that would have had to have been food of some sort. She had a coin which she put in the collection box which was for alms which were collected for the poor.

 

[Bobber]

You can take it or leave it, no need to be snarky.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and apologize considering that maybe I was being that way. I didn't intend for it to be thought of that way. But you began by claiming you had the REAL deal on the tithing subject. Why can't we just bring our arguments to the table and assess them.

So again you said : Ya'll want to know the real deal on tithing? All right, here you go:

I think you're assertion has a right to be challenged and questioned as do you have that very thing? That's something we all have a right to determine.

I also explained where I'm coming from and how I practice what I preach. Did you even read what I wrote in it's entirety or just the first two paragraphs?

To answer your question yes I HAD worked my way through it but it was quite lengthy about 85 lines. To respond to each point you make would take long, long posts on my part and many times I usually find others pick up and discuss those points you or somebody else would make anyway. Peace and God Bless.

 

[topher694]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and apologize considering that maybe I was being that way. I didn't intend for it to be thought of that way. But you began by claiming you had the REAL deal on the tithing subject. Why can't we just bring our arguments to the table and assess them.

So again you said : Ya'll want to know the real deal on tithing? All right, here you go:

I think you're assertion has a right to be challenged and questioned as do you have that very thing? That's something we all have a right to determine.



To answer your question yes I HAD worked my way through it but it was quite lengthy about 85 lines. To respond to each point you make would take long, long posts on my part and many times I usually find others pick up and discuss those points you or somebody else would make anyway. Peace and God Bless.

That's placing an awful lot of emphasis onto one phrase when, as you said, there was a lot more of substance to the post.

Nevertheless, it was meant as more of a tongue and cheek type of comment based on the length of the post (I knew it was going to be a long one) nothing more. That is typical of my use of the word "Ya'll" as well, what follows is almost always something a bit silly or ironic or such... in other words I was pre-emptively poking fun at myself for being long-winded.

Granted, none of those things translate well into the written format, so I can see where you are coming from.

 

[Fervent]

The widow wasn't giving tithes, that would have had to have been food of some sort. She had a coin which she put in the collection box which was for alms which were collected for the poor.

Yep, and Jesus pointed it out immediately after declaring that they devour widow's houses. The widow's faithfulness in giving is not the only thing to be learned from the passage.

 

[Vince53]

New Testament Tithing

Brethren, I feel that the case for NT tithing is much weaker than its advocates believe, but stronger than its opponents believe.

” “Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings.” “That’s the Law!” someone exclaims. No, it’s the prophets.



“Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this,” Says the LORD of hosts, “If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it.” Mal 3:10

The purpose of the tithe is to provide food in God’s house: “…the house of God, which is the church of the living God…1 Tim 3:15

Along with a multitude of others, I can testify that this promise to bless tithers is true.



1 Cor 16:2 “On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.” This cannot be a command to give freely; Paul specifically commands that it is to be according to their increase. You do not have to increase or decrease your giving if your income changes, but you do have to increase or decrease your tithe if your income changes.



The tithe does not apply only to crops: “Honor the LORD with your possessions, And with the firstfruits of all your increase;” Prov 3:9


Jesus commanded tithing: ““Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”


Folks, my honest opinion is that there are some context problems with using these verses to teach NT tithing, but there is a case for it.

 

[Acts29]

That's evading my question. I don't care about the method. I simply asked how you would define your previous comment.

However, the statement:

Any church that regularly experiences the presence of God has no problem with money. Those people enjoy giving

Is ridiculous. You have no basis to make such a claim.

Exactly as I suspected. If one is unfamiliar with the presence of God, they will also not understand tithing. God always provides the funding and way for HIS work, not man's work. My basis is well founded in the scriptures. Did the Israelites lack anything during 40 years in the wildreness? Did any of the prophets lack funding? Did any of Jesus' disciples lack funding? Nope. Social clubs may lack funding, not God.
Why do you get angry when I mention the presence of God?

 

[Bobber]

New Testament Tithing
Brethren, I feel that the case for NT tithing is much weaker than its advocates believe, but stronger than its opponents believe.

Seems like you're saying it's almost a 50/50 issue. Good you're saying all people that are making at least points that should be considered.

“Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings.” “That’s the Law!” someone exclaims. No, it’s the prophets.

But I'm just wondering why you're saying that? Is it that if you think it's not a part of the law that you therefore can go along with Malachi verses to be preached to the church? Merely because Malachi the prophet brought it up doesn't mean it wasn't IN the law as we see it is in Deut 14: 22 . Those are instructions in the law. Then when you move ahead in Deut 28 we see Moses sums it all up in the blessings or curses of keeping the law or not doing so.

Deut 28:58 -->If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book....(then he declares out all the curses)

Tithing was one of the various things written in the book. Deut 14:22

Along with a multitude of others, I can testify that this promise to bless tithers is true.

And you do know though that multitude of others can still not seeing things correctly. Ok people give much and they're liberal in giving. Can you understand that one can believe in tithing do it get blessed of God and God could say later I didn't bless you for your believing in a 10% giving mandate. I blessed you for this reason. You were a liberal giver and cheerful and joyful in doing so. Why wouldn't God bless you He loves you and you're still applying giving principals.

 

[topher694]

Exactly as I suspected. If one is unfamiliar with the presence of God, they will also not understand tithing. God always provides the funding and way for HIS work, not man's work. My basis is well founded in the scriptures. Did the Israelites lack anything during 40 years in the wildreness? Did any of the prophets lack funding? Did any of Jesus' disciples lack funding? Nope. Social clubs may lack funding, not God.
Why do you get angry when I mention the presence of God?

It is comical how far off you are. Tell me how many churches have you run to base these conclusions on? I'd very much like to hear how money fell from the sky to provide for them.

 

[Acts29]

It is comical how far off you are. Tell me how many churches have you run to base these conclusions on? I'd very much like to hear how money fell from the sky to provide for them.

Wow. That is the most unbelief I have seen in a while. Sad.

 

[topher694]

Wow. That is the most unbelief I have seen in a while. Sad.

Once again you ignore any questions and just fall back on ad hominem. You are so, so, so far off it is amazing. I'll ask you once again directly: How many churches have you run to base conclusions on? Why should anyone believe anything you say on the matter?

 

[Acts29]

Why should anyone believe anything you say on the matter?

You'll find out next fall.

 

[topher694]

You'll find out next fall.

Ignored my main question again I see. That's 3 times. I'm going go ahead and take that to mean you have zero practical experience or fruit to back up anything you said. So there is zero reason to take anything you've said on the matter seriously.

 

[Acts29]

Ignored my main question again I see. That's 3 times. I'm going go ahead and take that to mean you have zero practical experience or fruit to back up anything you said. So there is zero reason to take anything you've said on the matter seriously.

Your main question is worthless. If you don't know about God's presence, or the difference between a church and a social club, nothing I say would matter. No matter what I said you would not believe. I could be John the Baptist and you still wouldn't hear it. Read the scriptures. God always provided for HIS work, not social clubs. Your entire thought process is that Jesus is no longer head of the church, and you are. I brought up God's presence and you balked. That tells me all I need to know. The simple fact that you continue to argue is evidence that I hit a nerve but pride wont let you admit it. I am only responding for the entertainment value. I knew from the beginning you would not listen. Believe what seems good to you.

 

[topher694]

Your main question is worthless. If you don't know about God's presence, or the difference between a church and a social club, nothing I say would matter. No matter what I said you would not believe. I could be John the Baptist and you still wouldn't hear it. Read the scriptures. God always provided for HIS work, not social clubs. Your entire thought process is that Jesus is no longer head of the church, and you are. I brought up God's presence and you balked. That tells me all I need to know. The simple fact that you continue to argue is evidence that I hit a nerve but pride wont let you admit it. I am only responding for the entertainment value. I knew from the beginning you would not listen. Believe what seems good to you.

Again you are so, so far off it's pathetic. I didn't balk at the presence I balked at your caviler attitude. The question is not meaningless, because social club or church, you have never been in a position to know the financials look like, and what the needs are, and if the financial needs are met, how they were met. So even if everything you said were true, you would be in no position to speak with the authority you have pretended to have on the matter.

You see, unlike you I do have experience. I run 2 churches and a bible school. One of our foundational principles is the presence of God. We are a presence driven church not a program driven church. The gifts of the Spirit flow every single service. We've seen more healings, deliverance and fulfillment of prophetic words than I can count. In the past year alone we had 3 outside ministers come to our church for the first time. All three do major crusades across the globe with tens/hundreds of thousands of people and travel all over the world and the country. All three separately, and without prompting, told us that they had never been to a church in the States where the presence of God was so strong. Not my words, theirs. I don't normally volunteer stuff like that, I prefer people come learn for themselves, but your incredibly inaccurate take created an exception.

As such, you are right in one sense, God has always provided for us in amazing ways, especially when we first launched each church. However, given my actual experience with leading and finances, and your complete lack of it, I can say with confidence that while the general idea of God providing is correct, everything you said in relation to how that actually happens and your attitude towards it is hogwash.

Your awful discernment and attitude tell me all I need to know. When I ask simple and straightforward questions you balked and instead go straight to uninformed ad hominem attacks. The simple fact is your baseless accusations of pride are nothing more the projection of the same. It has been oozing off of you from the beginning. You made it clear early on you don't listen and you only care about one person's opinion... yours. This entire exchange just proves it.

 

[Acts29]

Again you are so, so far off it's pathetic. I didn't balk at the presence I balked at your caviler attitude. The question is not meaningless, because social club or church, you have never been in a position to know the financials look like, and what the needs are, and if the financial needs are met, how they were met. So even if everything you said were true, you would be in no position to speak with the authority you have pretended to have on the matter.

You see, unlike you I do have experience. I run 2 churches and a bible school. One of our foundational principles is the presence of God. We are a presence driven church not a program driven church. The gifts of the Spirit flow every single service. We've seen more healings, deliverance and fulfillment of prophetic words than I can count. In the past year alone we had 3 outside ministers come to our church for the first time. All three do major crusades across the globe with tens/hundreds of thousands of people and travel all over the world and the country. All three separately, and without prompting, told us that they had never been to a church in the States where the presence of God was so strong. Not my words, theirs. I don't normally volunteer stuff like that, I prefer people come learn for themselves, but your incredibly inaccurate take created an exception.

As such, you are right in one sense, God has always provided for us in amazing ways, especially when we first launched each church. However, given my actual experience with leading and finances, and your complete lack of it, I can say with confidence that while the general idea of God providing is correct, everything you said in relation to how that actually happens and your attitude towards it is hogwash.

Your awful discernment and attitude tell me all I need to know. When I ask simple and straightforward questions you balked and instead go straight to uninformed ad hominem attacks. The simple fact is your baseless accusations of pride are nothing more the projection of the same. It has been oozing off of you from the beginning. You made it clear early on you don't listen and you only care about one person's opinion... yours. This entire exchange just proves it.

It is peace.
The summer of 2022 will be disaster after disaster in the US and America will be on her knees by September. Israel will be scattered, and Jews and Christians will be pressed in on all sides as the nations rage against them/us. That is when someone no one is expecting will arise and deliver, though the battle will continue for several months. Since you run churches, I tell you these things ahead of time, though you do not know me and have no reason to believe me. When these things begin to happen, brace yourself for the storms will be very severe. Those who built their house upon the sand will fall. Only those who built their house upon the Rock will stand at the end.

 

[pescador]

It is peace.
The summer of 2022 will be disaster after disaster in the US and America will be on her knees by September. Israel will be scattered, and Jews and Christians will be pressed in on all sides as the nations rage against them/us. That is when someone no one is expecting will arise and deliver, though the battle will continue for several months. Since you run churches, I tell you these things ahead of time, though you do not know me and have no reason to believe me. When these things begin to happen, brace yourself for the storms will be very severe. Those who built their house upon the sand will fall. Only those who built their house upon the Rock will stand at the end.

You wrote "you do not know me and have no reason to believe me". That is correct on both counts.

 

[Sunshinee777]

Under the New Covenant it not about specifically tithing but about giving graciously which would be at least one of the fruits of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Amen. The more you have the more you give.

Bible gives us instruction, how we give our tithes/alms:

”Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.”

 

[Acts29]

You wrote "you do not know me and have no reason to believe me". That is correct on both counts.

You have said it. Please do not believe me. Thank you creating this record!

 

[Sunshinee777]

Those who actually follow Jesus should want to give freely because that is what Christ does. Treasures on earth are temporary. Treasures in heaven are forever.

I agree with you. As a christians we should give because we want to. I think churches or pastors should never ask for money or even hint anything like that. To me it feels so so wrong.
”Freely you have been received freely you shall give”

 

[topher694]

I agree with you. As a christians we should give because we want to. I think churches or pastors should never ask for money or even hint anything like that. To me it feels so so wrong.
”Freely you have been received freely you shall give”

So people should give, but churches shouldn't tell them how to give or provide an opportunity to give? Makes sense.