Tithing?

[Vince53]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

 

[Tigger45]

Under the New Covenant it not about specifically tithing but about giving graciously which would be at least one of the fruits of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[Bobber]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

So you think the most genuine Christians are ones the pay a tithes? You don't think some of them not all of them but some of them might be ones who walk out of love and cause strife or division about various things? So what about ones who don't tithes but they're the loveliest kindest person you'd ever want to meet with the fruits of the spirit in high manifestation always helping people being a blessing. That wouldn't count for anything?

 

[RDKirk]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. -- James 1

There is your biblical standard.

 

[Bramblewild]

--How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say. Do you know of people who teach that tithing is the way to know if a person is a true Christian or not? Is that why you're asking if that is a biblical standard?

Even in the Old Testament, the tithing laws were much more complex than many people seem to think. Not only that, but the Old Testament tithe wasn't about just giving money or goods away. Much of it was about a festival, a feast, and the people took the tithe to a certain place so they could celebrate the harvest while also caring for the priests and the needy.

In the New Testament, tithing is not an issue for the church. Just as Christians are not commanded to be circumcised or to keep the Old Testament feasts, Christians are not commanded to tithe.

 

[DamianWarS]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

Tithing is an old covenant value and we use it thematically in the church today. Contrary to popular belief a church has no biblical authority to demand a tenth. Giving is the new covenant value. It may seem small but shifting the language from tithing to giving can be the difference of giving out of requirement vs giving from the heart. When we give out of requirement we are checking a box and are less interested in the impact of giving, when we give from the heart we care where we give. It pains me to say it but the church has exploited these concepts for a long time and it continues to do so. Just look at a budget of a church and you will soon see why they need you to keep on giving money.

 

[topher694]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

Is this a courteous statement?

 

[Fervent]

Finances can certainly be an indicator, but there are lots of good reasons not to give the money to a local "church" and instead invest in the body in other ways. In fact, often churches that focus on tithes and other fiscal matters are signs of an unhealthy church that is either dying or will be in short order. Tithing, as far as the old covenant commandment, was never money or financial instruments but was restricted to fruits of the field, livestock, and other agricultural goods. And it was intended to be eaten in worship of God as part of the social/religious life with temple at the center of everything. Jesus threw the money changers from the temple grounds because they had made the temple a place of commerce, and many churches do the same in turning giving into a transaction and making it appear Biblical by labeling it the "tithe."

 

[topher694]

Finances can certainly be an indicator, but there are lots of good reasons not to give the money to a local "church" and instead invest in the body in other ways. In fact, often churches that focus on tithes and other fiscal matters are signs of an unhealthy church that is either dying or will be in short order. Tithing, as far as the old covenant commandment, was never money or financial instruments but was restricted to fruits of the field, livestock, and other agricultural goods. And it was intended to be eaten in worship of God as part of the social/religious life with temple at the center of everything. Jesus threw the money changers from the temple grounds because they had made the temple a place of commerce, and many churches do the same in turning giving into a transaction and making it appear Biblical by labeling it the "tithe."

Did Jesus come to demonstrate and fulfill the letter of the law or the spirit of the law?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

I believe in tithing, but I don't like pressure to tithe. I come from a situation where my wife is a money saver and does not like to give. So I have to prioritize, I give my tithe to the poor, not the church, although I do from time to time give to church offerings. I don't like feeling judged by the church, that I am somehow in sin, I do the best I can with what I have.

 

[Vince53]

When we give out of requirement we are ...less interested in the impact of giving, when we give from the heart we care where we give.

Damian, that is an intelligent point that I have never heard before.

 

[Strong in Him]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard?

No.
Someone can give large sums of money to the church and not even be a Christian - just someone who believes in doing good deeds and supporting the work that the church does.

If you want Biblical teaching on tithing it can be found in Deuteronomy 14:22-29, Deuteronomy 26:1-2, Leviticus 27:30 and a few other places.
From these passages we can see that the tithe was always food - 10% of their crops. They were to take this 10% to the temple and then eat it, in thanksgiving for what the Lord had given to them - not forgetting the priests, who had no allotments, and the poor among them.
The only time that money was involved was if the Lord had blessed them so greatly that 10% of their crops was too heavy to carry. Then they were to take the 10%, sell it, take the money to the temple, buy more food with it and eat that.

So if someone is insisting on tithing according to OT guidelines and principles, that is what should happen; the congregation take lots of homegrown fruit, veg, herbs etc to church, have a sit down meal, with the clergy, invite the poor to come in and everyone celebrate God's goodness.

If you are talking about giving according to NT principles; the early church shared everything, although money from the sale of property was still theirs to do with as they pleased. If Ananias and Sapphira had said to the Apostles; "this is some of the money we received from the sale of our property", it would have been ok, Acts of the Apostles 5:4. Instead they lied, claimed they were giving it all to God but kept some back for themselves.
Christians were urged to give money to help support other churches, but Paul said that they should not give out of compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
The widow at the temple was commended for giving everything.

There is no mention of a tithe, nor even giving 10%. NT teaching is that ALL comes from God and belongs to God.

 

[Vince53]

"If you want Biblical teaching on tithing it can be found in Deuteronomy 14:22-29, Deuteronomy 26:1-2, Leviticus 27:30 and a few other places.
From these passages we can see that the tithe was always food - 10% of their crops."

Now THAT is an intelligent point that I have never heard before.

 

[RDKirk]

No.
Someone can give large sums of money to the church and not even be a Christian - just someone who believes in doing good deeds and supporting the work that the church does.

If you want Biblical teaching on tithing it can be found in Deuteronomy 14:22-29, Deuteronomy 26:1-2, Leviticus 27:30 and a few other places.
From these passages we can see that the tithe was always food - 10% of their crops. They were to take this 10% to the temple and then eat it, in thanksgiving for what the Lord had given to them - not forgetting the priests, who had no allotments, and the poor among them.
The only time that money was involved was if the Lord had blessed them so greatly that 10% of their crops was too heavy to carry. Then they were to take the 10%, sell it, take the money to the temple, buy more food with it and eat that.

So if someone is insisting on tithing according to OT guidelines and principles, that is what should happen; the congregation take lots of homegrown fruit, veg, herbs etc to church, have a sit down meal, with the clergy, invite the poor to come in and everyone celebrate God's goodness.

If you are talking about giving according to NT principles; the early church shared everything, although money from the sale of property was still theirs to do with as they pleased. If Ananias and Sapphira had said to the Apostles; "this is some of the money we received from the sale of our property", it would have been ok, Acts of the Apostles 5:4. Instead they lied, claimed they were giving it all to God but kept some back for themselves.
Christians were urged to give money to help support other churches, but Paul said that they should not give out of compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
The widow at the temple was commended for giving everything.

There is no mention of a tithe, nor even giving 10%. NT teaching is that ALL comes from God and belongs to God.

I agree and would mention two other things.

One is that at the time the Apostles were teaching (with possible exception of John...but he doesn't speak of giving), the temple still existed in Jerusalem. Jewish tithing according to the Mosaic Law was still active. If the apostles were going to preach "tithing," that's what they'd have been telling Christians to do: To take food to Jerusalem. I suspect that not even the Judaizers in Galatia were regularly going back to Jerusalem every year to tithe.

The apostles didn't preach tithing because that's not what they intended. God has never changed His definition of "tithe," and they knew it. Jews today even know it. Jews today do not tithe because they can't do it according to the Law. Instead, they make a "fairness" offering.

The second thing: Tithing is a "Promised Land" practice. The tithe law didn't go into effect until the Jews were settled into the Promised Land. They did not tithe while in the wilderness. In the wilderness, they were on the "manna economy." This is an important point, because while instructing the Church specifically in how to give money, Paul explicitly maps the Church economy to the wilderness manna economy, not to the Promised Land tithing economy.

For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality— at this present time your abundance being a supply for their need, so that their abundance also may become a supply for your need, that there may be equality; as it is written, “HE WHO GATHERED MUCH DID NOT HAVE TOO MUCH, AND HE WHO GATHERED LITTLE HAD NO LACK.” -- 2 Corinthians 8

Paul points the Church to Exodus 16:

This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Gather of it, each one of you, as much as he can eat. You shall each take an omer, according to the number of the persons that each of you has in his tent.’”

The Israelites did as they were told; some gathered much, some little. But when they measured it with an omer, whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack. Each of them gathered as much as he could eat.

In the manna economy, God had decreed that each person was to get an equal amount: One omer. They gathered different amounts, however. How much was "too much?" More than an omer. How much was too little? Less than an omer. Paul teaches this as equality of resources being the standard, with members sharing as necessary to meet that standard.

 

[Strong in Him]

I agree and would mention two other things.

One is that at the time the Apostles were teaching (with possible exception of John...but he doesn't speak of giving), the temple still existed in Jerusalem. Jewish tithing according to the Mosaic Law was still active. If the apostles were going to preach "tithing," that's what they'd have been telling Christians to do: To take food to Jerusalem. I suspect that not even the Judaizers in Galatia were regularly going back to Jerusalem every year to tithe.

The apostles didn't preach tithing because that's not what they intended. God has never changed His definition of "tithe," and they knew it. Jews today even know it. Jews today do not tithe because they can't do it according to the Law. Instead, they make a "fairness" offering.

The second thing: Tithing is a "Promised Land" practice. The tithe law didn't go into effect until the Jews were settled into the Promised Land. They did not tithe while in the wilderness. In the wilderness, they were on the "manna economy." This is an important point, because while instructing the Church specifically in how to give money, Paul explicitly maps the Church economy to the wilderness manna economy, not to the Promised Land tithing economy.

For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality— at this present time your abundance being a supply for their need, so that their abundance also may become a supply for your need, that there may be equality; as it is written, “HE WHO GATHERED MUCH DID NOT HAVE TOO MUCH, AND HE WHO GATHERED LITTLE HAD NO LACK.” -- 2 Corinthians 8

Paul points the Church to Exodus 16:

This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Gather of it, each one of you, as much as he can eat. You shall each take an omer, according to the number of the persons that each of you has in his tent.’”

The Israelites did as they were told; some gathered much, some little. But when they measured it with an omer, whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack. Each of them gathered as much as he could eat.

In the manna economy, God had decreed that each person was to get an equal amount: One omer. They gathered different amounts, however. How much was "too much?" More than an omer. How much was too little? Less than an omer. Paul teaches this as equality of resources being the standard, with members sharing as necessary to meet that standard.

I wasn't sure whether to give you a "like" or an "informative" rating - the "like" won.
Thank you.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

Here is what scripture tells us about the characteristics of a true Holy Spirit filled Christian. Blessings
Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

[Bobber]

One can talk about so many reasons why tithing isn't for the Gentiles and church...so many reasons. I think it always escapes everyone what the whole basic thing was about. Folks Israel was A NATION. You have to have some kind of civil servant class you had the priests but you also had the Levites who caused the nation to function as civil servants would. So in Gentile nations you have civil servants paid by tax payer. Then you had the tithes went to the poor well similar to our welfare.

These are things that cause the nation to function in a merciful just way. With the three different tithes in Israel really the giving came to about 25-30% and isn't that interesting....pretty much the same as the taxation rate of most nations today. So ironically when modern day church leaders want to reprove some of their congregates for not giving an actual tithe do they really have any understanding what they're doing? These dear saints have given already that which makes their society and nation function.....that's their Gentile nation's taxes.

Don't Christian ministers deserve compensation? Scripture says it's good to honor a principle of responding in a reciprocal way when you've received something YES but by the instructions of Paul....not of compulsion, but willingly and not out of a threat that one is cursed if they don't. How can one say they are cursed if they've already given their just due to the culture in general to make their society work? Does any of that make sense?

 

[Vince53]

A lot of good, informative posts here.

 

[Bobber]

I believe in tithing, but I don't like pressure to tithe. I come from a situation where my wife is a money saver and does not like to give. So I have to prioritize, I give my tithe to the poor, not the church, although I do from time to time give to church offerings. I don't like feeling judged by the church, that I am somehow in sin, I do the best I can with what I have.

I think one should watch the policies or words said about this. In some circles there came a trend to say If someone isn't a tither they can attend services but not be on the platform or in any type of leadership. What in essence they've done is to say God is not using you in any gifting or your not worthy to express them. I think I'd pretty much leave a church if hearing that for if they're not giving you the right hand of fellowship or not treating you as an equal then why bother going. Going to a church it should be primary you will be treated with respect and love. I've known people who stopped going to church for feeling like they're not accepted and it made my heart weep. Even if some leaders believe in tithing I suspect they're going to have to answer for doing that to people in the day.

 

[Blade]

How do you identify the most genuine Christians in a church? Why, by the financial records, of course., especially if they're tithers. But is this a Biblical standard? Let's have some courteous responses, Gang!

What you said.. where is that written? To tithe is not always .. for me mostly not with money and then there is no record but in heaven.