Hi everyone! I have been reading Christianforums for some time now and feel this is the community to seeks answers from as my in person questions have gone unanswered. I will try to give thorough detail, but I am not looking to be negative. If you want to skip the background info, my question is at the bottom.
Let me start by stating this: I believe tithing is necessary, biblical, and rewarding.
I am married to the Pastor's daughter. She is the worship leader at our church and has been for many many years. I first met my wife almost 4 years ago when I came to church for the first time. The church was renting a room from a business each week and struggled with finances. The congregation size at that time was about 25 people, about half hit or miss. This particilar group was the remnants of a much larger congregation, about 300 people, from an AG church that went through a fierce split and shut down after the Pastor (my father in law) divorced his wife after years of neglect and suspected adultery (she ended up marrying the worship pastor in question).
The one thing that stood out to me was the lack of ANYTHING at the weekly services. There were literally chairs and a very small sound system with 2 speakers and a mic. I continued to go as his messages really spoke to me and the worship was just phenomenal (my now wife was leading worship at that time and now travels to sing on top of leading on Sundays). I quickly became involved in the church as there were several areas I was able to help in (I am now the tech director).
Fast forward to today (many things took place between then and now but they are irrelevant to my question). We have a new building that we rent monthly, space for a kids church and nursery. We were in the building for a year with the same chairs and small sound system. As I had become heavily involved, I spoke with the Pastor many times about things the church needed (I say needed because we were losing members due to these specific complaints and could not retain any new members). I was repeatedly told we did not have the money for sound equipment, bibles, basic church signage and decor, or to pay anyone but the Pastor (at this time the amount was not known). We held a church picnic which everyone had to bring all of their own stuff. The church was unable to provide ANYTHING like they always had years before.
Messages about tithing and threats of doors shutting became more frequent. My wife and I were desprate to get the church off the ground. We personally funded a new sound system, repaired entire sections of missing drywall in the building, build a sound booth, built a nursery from scratch, created decor and decorated the church, and started putting on events such as movie nights and community outreaches, all on our own, all out of pocket. The Pastor would continually say we did not have the money for these things so if we wanted to get them we could. Since we invested into these things and organized these events, we have seen an increase to 60 steady members each week, and we grow weekly!
The money we put into the church and the items it needed and the events we put on in the churches name are far far greater than "10%" tithe. We found out that our church brings in around 50k a year from our small congregation, and about 85% of that goes to the Pastor in salary, paying his utilities, and reimbursements to him. The other 15% goes to office supplies and the rent. He does not have another job, nor has he ever. His new wife has had to go get a job to make ends meet.
Here is my question: We are told to be good stewards of our money. To tithe with a cheerful heart. Is it wrong that we put the money into what the church needs instead of tithing it directly to the Pastor? After pouring our time, talents, and treasures into the church, because the Pastor would not, we did start putting our tithe into what the church needed instead of the offering plate. We tithed faithfully for 2 years, in which time the Pastor would not do a single thing for the church, only threatening to close the doors. Once we stopped tithing, he pulled us aside and reprimanded us, saying God would remove his hand of blessing from our lives. That was a year ago. Since then we have continue to make improvements that has lead to explosive growth of our church. We are seeing people give their hearts to Jesus weekly. We wanted to leave the church all together to go to a church more in line with our values, but with him being family it is not that easy. Are we wrong? At what point do we stop being blind and start holding those in position accountable? I have talked with all of the elders, and each one has told me in one way or another that they are just "yes men" and that I should just give my money and let God handle the rest. That to me is turning a blind eye. I understand Pastors should be paid, but taking 85% of the churches money and threatening to close doors after talking about how he "took a pay cut" seems very off to me. My wife and I put about 20 hours a week into the church, purchase all the items for the church, and put on all community events with the help of other members, not the Pastor. If I believe all he says, then God is upset with me for all of these works. If left to Pastor, they would never happen. I feel like it is a matter of what is more important, leading people to God or paying my Pastor's bills.
I am open to all answers and criticism. I am by no means selfish, and I understand everything I have is God's anyways. That is why I spend as much as I do without submitting reimbursement or expecting any acknowledgement of my efforts. I just want to see the people reached and saved and have a place to call home finally.
Let me start by stating this: I believe tithing is necessary, biblical, and rewarding.
I am married to the Pastor's daughter. She is the worship leader at our church and has been for many many years. I first met my wife almost 4 years ago when I came to church for the first time. The church was renting a room from a business each week and struggled with finances. The congregation size at that time was about 25 people, about half hit or miss. This particilar group was the remnants of a much larger congregation, about 300 people, from an AG church that went through a fierce split and shut down after the Pastor (my father in law) divorced his wife after years of neglect and suspected adultery (she ended up marrying the worship pastor in question).
The one thing that stood out to me was the lack of ANYTHING at the weekly services. There were literally chairs and a very small sound system with 2 speakers and a mic. I continued to go as his messages really spoke to me and the worship was just phenomenal (my now wife was leading worship at that time and now travels to sing on top of leading on Sundays). I quickly became involved in the church as there were several areas I was able to help in (I am now the tech director).
Fast forward to today (many things took place between then and now but they are irrelevant to my question). We have a new building that we rent monthly, space for a kids church and nursery. We were in the building for a year with the same chairs and small sound system. As I had become heavily involved, I spoke with the Pastor many times about things the church needed (I say needed because we were losing members due to these specific complaints and could not retain any new members). I was repeatedly told we did not have the money for sound equipment, bibles, basic church signage and decor, or to pay anyone but the Pastor (at this time the amount was not known). We held a church picnic which everyone had to bring all of their own stuff. The church was unable to provide ANYTHING like they always had years before.
Messages about tithing and threats of doors shutting became more frequent. My wife and I were desprate to get the church off the ground. We personally funded a new sound system, repaired entire sections of missing drywall in the building, build a sound booth, built a nursery from scratch, created decor and decorated the church, and started putting on events such as movie nights and community outreaches, all on our own, all out of pocket. The Pastor would continually say we did not have the money for these things so if we wanted to get them we could. Since we invested into these things and organized these events, we have seen an increase to 60 steady members each week, and we grow weekly!
The money we put into the church and the items it needed and the events we put on in the churches name are far far greater than "10%" tithe. We found out that our church brings in around 50k a year from our small congregation, and about 85% of that goes to the Pastor in salary, paying his utilities, and reimbursements to him. The other 15% goes to office supplies and the rent. He does not have another job, nor has he ever. His new wife has had to go get a job to make ends meet.
Here is my question: We are told to be good stewards of our money. To tithe with a cheerful heart. Is it wrong that we put the money into what the church needs instead of tithing it directly to the Pastor? After pouring our time, talents, and treasures into the church, because the Pastor would not, we did start putting our tithe into what the church needed instead of the offering plate. We tithed faithfully for 2 years, in which time the Pastor would not do a single thing for the church, only threatening to close the doors. Once we stopped tithing, he pulled us aside and reprimanded us, saying God would remove his hand of blessing from our lives. That was a year ago. Since then we have continue to make improvements that has lead to explosive growth of our church. We are seeing people give their hearts to Jesus weekly. We wanted to leave the church all together to go to a church more in line with our values, but with him being family it is not that easy. Are we wrong? At what point do we stop being blind and start holding those in position accountable? I have talked with all of the elders, and each one has told me in one way or another that they are just "yes men" and that I should just give my money and let God handle the rest. That to me is turning a blind eye. I understand Pastors should be paid, but taking 85% of the churches money and threatening to close doors after talking about how he "took a pay cut" seems very off to me. My wife and I put about 20 hours a week into the church, purchase all the items for the church, and put on all community events with the help of other members, not the Pastor. If I believe all he says, then God is upset with me for all of these works. If left to Pastor, they would never happen. I feel like it is a matter of what is more important, leading people to God or paying my Pastor's bills.
I am open to all answers and criticism. I am by no means selfish, and I understand everything I have is God's anyways. That is why I spend as much as I do without submitting reimbursement or expecting any acknowledgement of my efforts. I just want to see the people reached and saved and have a place to call home finally.
