Time of the Exodus

Torah Keeper

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Hi Gideon

Enjoyed reading your post. I agree that it is important that history should agree with the Bible, and it does.

Have you then identified a conflict in the notion that the Israelite's were slaves in Egypt? Can you expand on this?

Regarding the below dates, have you considered that the year from Creation 2454 equals 1496 BC on the Gregorian Calendar?

I have done my own calculations based on the bishop Ussher calculation for creation, I cheated by using Excel, but my calculations places Adam at 3950 BC and the Exodus on 1496 BC.

Regards,
Filip
View attachment 311075

Your calculations are almost exactly the same as mine.
 
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SuperCow

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I don't see why using Excel is cheating. Going through 1st and 2nd Kings manually without one would have driven me crazy. Even with Excel, you have several issues that come at you, that you are forced to make assumptions to work.

Genesis 5 & 11 are straightforward from creation to Abraham (other than one confusing issue with Terah's timeline), as is following the timeline to Joseph in Egypt. Then the sojourn in Egypt leaves the disputed scenario of 430 years in Egypt [and Canaan (LXX)] which the LXX clarification is usually preferred due to the Abrahamic covenant.

Joshua's time as judge is not mentioned. (Though it is usually calculated as 25 or 28 years)

Judges is 100 years too long when compared with 1 Kings 6:1, in which the latter is favored leading to tortured explanations of the judges timeline. The overlap between judge Samuel and king Saul is not stated, and the length of Saul's reign is missing in the original texts.

Then when you get to the rest of the kings, there are civil wars (Omri & Tibni in Israel), kings reigns relative to each other's kingdom, that cannot be 100% resolved even with a spreadsheet, thereby forcing calculators to speculate on co-regencies at certain times, which is confused further by the different kingdoms having kings with the same name almost at the same time.

One has to have great respect for those in the past that have had to do it with a single pen and a scroll. (Though in fairness, some of them didn't have other jobs or families to distract them.)
 
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Filippus

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I can see you have spent time on this subject too.

Well, I noticed that he was forty years old at the Exodus.

Jos 14:7 "I was forty years old when Moses the servant of the Lord sent me from Kadesh-Barnea to spy out the land...".

This is then later confirmed when he references back to the Exodus in:

Joshua 14: 10 "Now behold, the Lord has let me live, just as He spoke, these forty-five years, from the time that the Lord spoke this word to Moses, when Israel walked in the wilderness; and now behold, I am eighty-five years old today."

We know he lived until he was 110 years old, therefore he was in the promised land for 30 years. Joshua 24:29

Agree the best we can do is patch the judges together but it does not affect our main timeline, which is determined through the kingdom of Judah.

DATING THE REIGNS OF THE KINGS OF JUDAH AND ISRAEL

The annals of the Assyrian Empire discovered by archaeologists, record twelve years between the reigns of King Ahab of Israel and King Jehu of Israel.

The Biblical records fourteen years between these kings with two kings between them "Ahaziah who ruled for two years and Jehoram who ruled twelve years (1 Kings 22:51; 2 Kings 3:1).

What at first glance appears to be a discrepancy can be easily explained.

Ancient kingdoms had different ways of recording the regnal years of their kings. The Assyrians and Babylonians credited the entire year when a king died to his reign, even if he died at the beginning of the year and his successor ruled eleven months of that year. The first year for a new Assyrian or Babylonian king would be designated his "accession year" and the new king's "year 1" did not begin until the first day of the following year. Historians call this method the "accession year system" or the "post-dating system."

Understanding how the periods were counted resolved the conundrum with for example Omri & Tibni, which both occupy one year on the timeline.

The way I approached this was to trust the archaeological evidence dating the First Captivity or the siege of Jerusalem to 605 BC.

Knowing that the Bible can be trusted I simply worked back from 605 BC to King Solomon, which in turn links it back to the exodus.

1 Kings 6:1 In the four hundred and eightieth year after the people of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, which is the second month, he began to build the house of the Lord.

What I have learnt is that the time and dates in Scripture are generally overlooked, but they are the silent witnesses confirming our faith.

Having done this I agree and have great respect for those in the past that have had to do this with pen and paper.
 
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SuperCow

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I can see you have spent time on this subject too.

Well, I noticed that he was forty years old at the Exodus.

Jos 14:7 "I was forty years old when Moses the servant of the Lord sent me from Kadesh-Barnea to spy out the land...".

This is then later confirmed when he references back to the Exodus in:

Joshua 14: 10 "Now behold, the Lord has let me live, just as He spoke, these forty-five years, from the time that the Lord spoke this word to Moses, when Israel walked in the wilderness; and now behold, I am eighty-five years old today."

We know he lived until he was 110 years old, therefore he was in the promised land for 30 years. Joshua 24:29

Thanks for that. I'm not sure how I missed those references in Joshua.

Agree the best we can do is patch the judges together but it does not affect our main timeline, which is determined through the kingdom of Judah.

DATING THE REIGNS OF THE KINGS OF JUDAH AND ISRAEL

The annals of the Assyrian Empire discovered by archaeologists, record twelve years between the reigns of King Ahab of Israel and King Jehu of Israel.

The Biblical records fourteen years between these kings with two kings between them "Ahaziah who ruled for two years and Jehoram who ruled twelve years (1 Kings 22:51; 2 Kings 3:1).

What at first glance appears to be a discrepancy can be easily explained.

Ancient kingdoms had different ways of recording the regnal years of their kings. The Assyrians and Babylonians credited the entire year when a king died to his reign, even if he died at the beginning of the year and his successor ruled eleven months of that year. The first year for a new Assyrian or Babylonian king would be designated his "accession year" and the new king's "year 1" did not begin until the first day of the following year. Historians call this method the "accession year system" or the "post-dating system."

I never had a problem with any of that. In fact, I have several adjustments in my spreadsheet to account for single year discrepancies. (To allow for 6 years, 8 months and 7 years, 4 months both rounding to 7 years for instance.)

Understanding how the periods were counted resolved the conundrum with for example Omri & Tibni, which both occupy one year on the timeline.

I had a discrepancy in 1 Kings 16, which I resolved by assuming a 4 year civil war between Omri and Tibni.

The way I approached this was to trust the archaeological evidence dating the First Captivity or the siege of Jerusalem to 605 BC.

I did the same thing, but started from the destruction of Jerusalem in 587 BC.

Knowing that the Bible can be trusted I simply worked back from 605 BC to King Solomon, which in turn links it back to the exodus.

1 Kings 6:1 In the four hundred and eightieth year after the people of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, which is the second month, he began to build the house of the Lord.

This scripture does affect the Judges timeline as the Judges chronology is 100 years longer than the 480 years mentioned in this scripture. (140 years if you use the LXX)

The apostle Paul in Acts 13:18-21 uses the longer period in his sermon, as his figures add up to 530 years, and with King David and the first 4 years of Solomon, you get 574 years for the same period. My own calculation of the Exodus-> Temple was 584 years. My personal feeling about this is that 1 Kings 6:1 is most likely copied incorrectly and should have been 580 years.

Eusebius of Caesarea in the 4th century wrote this:

This is because the Jewish doctors [of the faith] calculated that the total figure was 480 years, since they did not count the years that the foreigners ruled over the people separately. They just counted the time that the judges ruled them and included the foreign domination in that figure. This must have been the case, for it is the only way to arrive at a total of 480 years.

What I have learnt is that the time and dates in Scripture are generally overlooked, but they are the silent witnesses confirming our faith.

Having done this I agree and have great respect for those in the past that have had to do this with pen and paper.

Did you ever come up with an explanation for the missing 8 years in Pekah's or Hoshea's reign? (2nd last king of Israel)
 
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Filippus

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I had a discrepancy in 1 Kings 16, which I resolved by assuming a 4 year civil war between Omri and Tibni.


I allowed 3 years for the civil war, which is close enough.

clip_image002.jpg



This scripture does affect the Judges timeline as the Judges chronology is 100 years longer than the 480 years mentioned in this scripture. (140 years if you use the LXX)

Here I have ± 354 years for the Judges

The apostle Paul in Acts 13:18-21 uses the longer period in his sermon, as his figures add up to 530 years, and with King David and the first 4 years of Solomon, you get 574 years for the same period. My own calculation of the Exodus-> Temple was 584 years. My personal feeling about this is that 1 Kings 6:1 is most likely copied incorrectly and should have been 580 years.

Not sure how you have calculated this?

Acts 13:19-20 And after destroying seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land as an inheritance. All this took about 450 years. And after that he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.



So I started the count with the Exodus (1496 BC) and the 450th year was (1046 BC), this was the 14th year of King David and Samuels ± 54 year agreeing with verse 20 in Acts.


1 Sam13:1; A better explanation for the length of Saul’s reign is found in John Tullock’s book, The Old Testament Story, 2nd ed. (Englewood Cliff, NJ: Prentice-Hall, Inc., 1981), p.123. Tullock wrote:



The length of Saul’s reign is uncertain since a number is missing in the Hebrew text, which simply says, ‘he reigned . . . and two years’ (13:1). Most scholars would say he ruled about twenty-two years. If one takes the biblical evidence, twelve years might be more logical. The ark was captured by the Philistines some time before Saul began to reign. According to 1 Samuel 7:2, it was kept in Kiriath-jearim ‘some twenty years.’ It was taken to Jerusalem in the early part of David’s reign (2 Sam. 6:1-15), but David reigned for over seven years at Hebron before Jerusalem was captured (2 Sam. 5:5). If this twenty years is to be taken literally or even as meaning around twenty years, it would seem to limit Saul’s reign to no more than twelve years.


Because of the 450 years mentioned by Paul the 12 year reign fits the timeline.

Eusebius of Caesarea in the 4th century wrote this:

This is because the Jewish doctors [of the faith] calculated that the total figure was 480 years, since they did not count the years that the foreigners ruled over the people separately. They just counted the time that the judges ruled them and included the foreign domination in that figure. This must have been the case, for it is the only way to arrive at a total of 480 years.


Again the 480 years is essential in my view to make it work.


Did you ever come up with an explanation for the missing 8 years in Pekah's or Hoshea's reign? (2nd last king of Israel).

We know the dates are correct, but we are missing the detail regarding the two periods specified and can be a couple of options.



1. Like King David who reigned over Israel was forty years, seven years in Hebron and thirty-three years in Jerusalem. 1 Chronicles 29:27. King Hoshea could have reigned the first 8 years in the place of Pekah and nine years in Samaria as per 2 Kings 17:1.

or

2. He reigned but not as King for the first 8, the last 9 years as King of Samaria.


clip_image004.jpg
 
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SuperCow

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This scripture does affect the Judges timeline as the Judges chronology is 100 years longer than the 480 years mentioned in this scripture. (140 years if you use the LXX)

Here I have ± 354 years for the Judges

The apostle Paul in Acts 13:18-21 uses the longer period in his sermon, as his figures add up to 530 years, and with King David and the first 4 years of Solomon, you get 574 years for the same period. My own calculation of the Exodus-> Temple was 584 years. My personal feeling about this is that 1 Kings 6:1 is most likely copied incorrectly and should have been 580 years.

Not sure how you have calculated this?

Acts 13:19-20 And after destroying seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land as an inheritance. All this took about 450 years. And after that he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

So I started the count with the Exodus (1496 BC) and the 450th year was (1046 BC), this was the 14th year of King David and Samuels ± 54 year agreeing with verse 20 in Acts.
clip_image004.jpg

This is where the translation makes a big difference. The King James Version reads this way:

(18-21) And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

So this gives you: 40 years (in the wilderness) + 450 years (judges) + 40 years (Samuel & Saul) = 530 years. Add King David (40 years) and 4 years into Solomon's reign and you get 574 years.

The version you are reading from makes it appear that the 450 years occurs before the judges period even starts, which if counting from the Abrahamic covenant would actually be 470 years, not 450. (430 years for the covenant + Moses 40 years)

The American Standard Version muddies things up further:

(19-20) And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land for an inheritance, for about four hundred and fifty years: and after these things he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

Which makes it look like the 450 years is between the destruction of Canaan and the judges period, which you could contort to say that the inheritance was for 450 years, but extended into the judges and beyond or something to that effect.

I did some checking (since this came up on another thread somewhere before). Some of the versions that translate it like the 450 years precedes the judges:

CSB, Douay, ESV, NIV, RSV, NCB, NET, GNT, ISV, LEB, MEV, TLV

Some of the versions that translate the 450 years as if it was during the judges:

KJV and derivatives (AKJV, NKJV & KJ21), DARBY, GNV, RGT, TLB, YLT

And the confusing ones that don't know what they want to say here:

ASV, NTE, Wycliffe

So I happen to be siding with the second group, since I think it's much more likely for a single word in 1 Kings 6 to have an error than the entire timeline of the judges, which comes out to 500 years between the exodus and Samuel if you add up the reigns and the oppression. (Which also, if you subtract Moses 40 years and assume 10 years to conquer Canaan comes out to exactly 450 years.)

Flavius Josephus comes out to 592 years for this period, and as I mentioned Eusebius also confers with this timeline.
 
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Filippus

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This is where the translation makes a big difference. The King James Version reads this way:

(18-21) And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

So this gives you: 40 years (in the wilderness) + 450 years (judges) + 40 years (Samuel & Saul) = 530 years. Add King David (40 years) and 4 years into Solomon's reign and you get 574 years.

The version you are reading from makes it appear that the 450 years occurs before the judges period even starts, which if counting from the Abrahamic covenant would actually be 470 years, not 450. (430 years for the covenant + Moses 40 years)

The American Standard Version muddies things up further:

(19-20) And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, he gave them their land for an inheritance, for about four hundred and fifty years: and after these things he gave them judges until Samuel the prophet.

Which makes it look like the 450 years is between the destruction of Canaan and the judges period, which you could contort to say that the inheritance was for 450 years, but extended into the judges and beyond or something to that effect.

I did some checking (since this came up on another thread somewhere before). Some of the versions that translate it like the 450 years precedes the judges:

CSB, Douay, ESV, NIV, RSV, NCB, NET, GNT, ISV, LEB, MEV, TLV

Some of the versions that translate the 450 years as if it was during the judges:

KJV and derivatives (AKJV, NKJV & KJ21), DARBY, GNV, RGT, TLB, YLT

And the confusing ones that don't know what they want to say here:

ASV, NTE, Wycliffe

So I happen to be siding with the second group, since I think it's much more likely for a single word in 1 Kings 6 to have an error than the entire timeline of the judges, which comes out to 500 years between the exodus and Samuel if you add up the reigns and the oppression. (Which also, if you subtract Moses 40 years and assume 10 years to conquer Canaan comes out to exactly 450 years.)

Flavius Josephus comes out to 592 years for this period, and as I mentioned Eusebius also confers with this timeline.

Well spotted. So it appears that the dividing of the land to them by lot could mark as the start of the 450 years?
 
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SuperCow

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Well spotted. So it appears that the dividing of the land to them by lot could mark as the start of the 450 years?

Yes, which is only my opinion, which is not perfect by any means.
 
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Filippus

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Yes, which is only my opinion, which is not perfect by any means.

The 480 years in my view is still valid, there is no evidence to think otherwise.

And the view that the 450 years need to start at the exodus is also well supported and could simply mean these other translations needs correction.

However, in this case, we need to pursue both, looking for information on when the lots were pulled.

Shalom
 
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SuperCow

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The 480 years in my view is still valid, there is no evidence to think otherwise.

And the view that the 450 years need to start at the exodus is also well supported and could simply mean these other translations needs correction.

However, in this case, we need to pursue both, looking for information on when the lots were pulled.

Shalom

Scripturally speaking, you have to find a way to compress the book of Judges to make the 480 years work. Moses through judge Eli is already 500 years:

40 Moses
30 Joshua (Joshua 14:7,10, 24:29)
8 Oppressed by Adam (Judges 3:8)
40 Othniel (Judges 3:11)
18 Oppressed by Moab (Judges 3:14)
80 Ehud (judges 3:30)
--- Shamgar (Judges 3:31 overlapped)
20 Oppressed by Canaanites (Judges 4:3)
40 Deborah (Judges 5:31)
7 Oppressed by Midianites (Judges 6:1)
40 Gideon (Judges 8:28)
3 Abimelech (Judges 9:22)
23 Tola (judges 10:2)
22 Jair (Judges 10:3)
18 Oppressed by Philistines (Judges 10:8)
6 Jephthah (Judges 12:7)
7 Ibsan (Judges 12:9)
10 Elon (Judges 12:11)
8 Abdon (Judges 12:14)
40 Oppressed by Philistines (Judges 16:31)
--- Samson (Died ending oppression / overlapped)
40 Eli (1 Samuel 4:18)

This totals 500 years without Samuel, Saul, David or Solomon, which adds the other 80 years depending on Samuel/Saul which isn't clear.
 
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The period can be fitted into the 480 yrs. Eg 1 Samuel 7:2 says there were only 20 yrs from death of Eli to David bringing ark to Jerusalem. Samson was during Philistines. Eli and Samuel and Saul might have also been during Philistines. It is also maybe not certain they counted both the oppressions and judges. Joshua's amount of years are not certain.
 
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The period can be fitted into the 480 yrs. Eg 1 Samuel 7:2 says there were only 20 yrs from death of Eli to David bringing ark to Jerusalem. Samson was during Philistines. Eli and Samuel and Saul might have also been during Philistines. It is also maybe not certain they counted both the oppressions and judges. Joshua's amount of years are not certain.

@Filippus cleared up for me how to count Joshua in his post, which ended up being 30 years. (post #23) I've already allowed for the entire time of Samson being overlapped with the Philistine oppression. That still adds up to 500 years before Samuel even becomes judge. (post #30) If I stretch the Philistine oppression into Eli's time, I can only reduce it by 20 years, because at least 20 has to overlap with Samson.

The only way you can get to 480 years is if you ignore every year of oppression from the list, and assume the 1 Kings 6:1 only refers to the years that Israel wasn't oppressed. (Or assume that different judges ruled concurrently, possibly from different tribes.) To me, the book does not lend itself to that interpretation, but that is how it is explained by others.
 
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Filippus

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@Filippus cleared up for me how to count Joshua in his post, which ended up being 30 years. (post #23) I've already allowed for the entire time of Samson being overlapped with the Philistine oppression. That still adds up to 500 years before Samuel even becomes judge. (post #30) If I stretch the Philistine oppression into Eli's time, I can only reduce it by 20 years, because at least 20 has to overlap with Samson.

The only way you can get to 480 years is if you ignore every year of oppression from the list, and assume the 1 Kings 6:1 only refers to the years that Israel wasn't oppressed. (Or assume that different judges ruled concurrently, possibly from different tribes.) To me, the book does not lend itself to that interpretation, but that is how it is explained by others.

I still feel that Paul was emphasising the period around the fifteen judges. It actually computes.
Therefore the opposite proposal to work must work in line with 1 Kings 6:1, starting for example in the 30th year of the exodus. Let's assume the casting of the lots in, Num34:13 occurs ten years before the entry into the promised land. It would then end exactly at the same time specified in 1 Kings 6:1. supporting each other.

Still looking for the dating of the lots, though.:help:

Shalom
 
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The period can be fitted into the 480 yrs. Eg 1 Samuel 7:2 says there were only 20 yrs from death of Eli to David bringing ark to Jerusalem. Samson was during Philistines. Eli and Samuel and Saul might have also been during Philistines. It is also maybe not certain they counted both the oppressions and judges. Joshua's amount of years are not certain.

Your post led me to some more refined calculations regarding the reign length of Saul and Samuel, and it confuses me how many commentators ignore these passages when they publish their timelines, and then the rest of us have to search through ourselves to find the truth. You are quite right about 1 Samuel 7:2, which illuminates that entire period. Not Samuel's age, but the timeline to David.

(1 Samuel 3) Samuel was brought to Eli after being weaned (the only mention of an age of a boy being weaned in the Bible is Isaac, who was weaned at 5, which seems long by todays standards, but maybe not for back then). Samuel was a boy when he received his first prophecy, but the prophecy didn't occur until he was an adult.
(1 Samuel 4:18) Eli dies after judging 40 years, so we know that Samuel was younger than 45 when he died. (Unless he was brought to Eli as a priest, before he was judge.) At this time the ark was captured by the Philistines.
(1 Samuel 6:1) The ark was with the Philistines 7 months.
(1 Samuel 6) The ark was in Beth-Shemesh a short undisclosed period.
(1 Samuel 7:2) The ark was in Kirjath-Jearim 20 years.
(2 Samuel 6:11) The ark was with Obed-Edom 3 months.
(2 Samuel 6:12) The ark is back in Jerusalem.
So, depending on Beth-Shemesh, it is about 21 years.
(2 Samuel 5) But just before the last 3 months David reconquered Jerusalem from the Jebusites.
(2 Samuel 2:11) David reigned in Hebron 7 years, 6 months.
(1 Samuel 31) Saul dies a few months (probably) after Samuel. (1 Samuel 25:1)
(2 Samuel 2:10) Ishbosheth was contesting the kingdom for 2 years, but this doesn't affect the numbers.

This brings the time of Samuel's period of judging to (20 or 21 years) minus (7 or 8 years), and Saul's time as king is a subset of that. This seems reasonable for Saul, but a little short for Samuel. Not sure if I'm missing something.
 
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Filippus

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Your post led me to some more refined calculations regarding the reign length of Saul and Samuel, and it confuses me how many commentators ignore these passages when they publish their timelines, and then the rest of us have to search through ourselves to find the truth. You are quite right about 1 Samuel 7:2, which illuminates that entire period. Not Samuel's age, but the timeline to David.

(1 Samuel 3) Samuel was brought to Eli after being weaned (the only mention of an age of a boy being weaned in the Bible is Isaac, who was weaned at 5, which seems long by todays standards, but maybe not for back then). Samuel was a boy when he received his first prophecy, but the prophecy didn't occur until he was an adult.
(1 Samuel 4:18) Eli dies after judging 40 years, so we know that Samuel was younger than 45 when he died. (Unless he was brought to Eli as a priest, before he was judge.) At this time the ark was captured by the Philistines.
(1 Samuel 6:1) The ark was with the Philistines 7 months.
(1 Samuel 6) The ark was in Beth-Shemesh a short undisclosed period.
(1 Samuel 7:2) The ark was in Kirjath-Jearim 20 years.
(2 Samuel 6:11) The ark was with Obed-Edom 3 months.
(2 Samuel 6:12) The ark is back in Jerusalem.
So, depending on Beth-Shemesh, it is about 21 years.
(2 Samuel 5) But just before the last 3 months David reconquered Jerusalem from the Jebusites.
(2 Samuel 2:11) David reigned in Hebron 7 years, 6 months.
(1 Samuel 31) Saul dies a few months (probably) after Samuel. (1 Samuel 25:1)
(2 Samuel 2:10) Ishbosheth was contesting the kingdom for 2 years, but this doesn't affect the numbers.

This brings the time of Samuel's period of judging to (20 or 21 years) minus (7 or 8 years), and Saul's time as king is a subset of that. This seems reasonable for Saul, but a little short for Samuel. Not sure if I'm missing something.
I have 20 years between Eli and King David.

upload_2022-1-23_19-58-27.png
 
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SuperCow

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This theory about Samuel only being judge for 13 years kind of bothers me in the sense that Eli was judge before Samuel was born, and Eli judged for 40 years. Therefore Samuel was younger than 40 when he became judge, and I don't think 13 years more is long enough for Samuel to be considered an old man.

I found another theory about the ark at Kirjath-Jearim. The theory is that the timeline of that scripture is not for the ark, but a continuation of the story specifically in 1 Samuel 7:2. So what that means is that the 20 years was not the total time that the ark was in the care of Eleazar, but the time between verse 2 and verse 3. So by the time Samuel gave the speech he was already judge for 20 or 21 years.

It would explain why Samuel was an old man in chapter 8 when the aforementioned timeline would make him at most about 50 when he anointed Saul as king. In this scenario, Samuel is judge for almost 21 years, makes a speech to the people to give up their false gods, then continues to make circuits around various cities in Israel, then in chapter 8 makes his sons judges, who were eventually rejected by the people when they demanded a king. It would mean that the ark was at Kirjath Jearim much longer than 20 years in total.
 
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Filippus

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This theory about Samuel only being judge for 13 years kind of bothers me in the sense that Eli was judge before Samuel was born, and Eli judged for 40 years. Therefore Samuel was younger than 40 when he became judge, and I don't think 13 years more is long enough for Samuel to be considered an old man.

I found another theory about the ark at Kirjath-Jearim. The theory is that the timeline of that scripture is not for the ark, but a continuation of the story specifically in 1 Samuel 7:2. So what that means is that the 20 years was not the total time that the ark was in the care of Eleazar, but the time between verse 2 and verse 3. So by the time Samuel gave the speech he was already judge for 20 or 21 years.

It would explain why Samuel was an old man in chapter 8 when the aforementioned timeline would make him at most about 50 when he anointed Saul as king. In this scenario, Samuel is judge for almost 21 years, makes a speech to the people to give up their false gods, then continues to make circuits around various cities in Israel, then in chapter 8 makes his sons judges, who were eventually rejected by the people when they demanded a king. It would mean that the ark was at Kirjath Jearim much longer than 20 years in total.

I don't suggest that Samuel was only a judge for 13 years.
 
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SuperCow

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I don't suggest that Samuel was only a judge for 13 years.

Mosheli first suggested it here, and there are other commentators outside of CF (Seder Olam Rabbah for instance) that have followed that line of reasoning too.
 
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ha-adamah

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The exodus happened about 1530 BC, give or take a decade.

There are a lot of historical synchronisms from Abraham's lifetime until the exile to Babylon that establish the Bible's own timeline as accurate.

For me, the most interesting synchronism is in Genesis 36 where the list of the kings of Edom actually tracks the invasion of the Hyksos into Egypt. Their rule of Egypt began about 1610 BC.

Also, Queen Hatshepsut mentioned the presence of the Hebrews in the Nile Delta in the Great Papyrus just after 1500 BC, and she took credit for expelling them.
 
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